Liberation Day

[MountainTracker]

I can’t keep up with this thread, too fast.




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[mostlybirch]

Gotta love the internet
Lets go back to 1996

AGreed

 

[Mike 338]

Don't know much about international trade but I don't need an economist to tell me that the US has been on an unsustainable and stupid path for the better part of a century. The idea that you fix that by doing nothing, which is in fact, borrowing more money, is just crazy. Doesn't matter who's doing it, Trump or pick you guru... fixing the US money thing is going to be painful. I don't mean painful like most people are used to, which is akin to having your cable interrupted... I'm talking real pain. These tariffs are nothing if you're serious about getting the US back on its feet.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Well I’ve been liberated of about 15 grand so far. Someone asked how do we ourselves out of this economic house of cards. Simple start paying our bills. Want to reduce interest payments, pay down the principle. Government has three basic ways to raise money. Print it, use taxes and of course tariffs. Printing money doesn’t work, Germany tried that between the wars. So that leaves taxes and tariffs. As much as I hate paying taxes, that track is the only reasonable way out of this hole. Instead of a tax cut everyone gets an increase, whatever money is generated is directed to the debit principle. In the meantime do surgical cuts to the budget, not the sledgehammer we have been seeing reducing our costs. I’m out of money either way, but at least this way willl make the country stronger in the future. As long as the idiots in Congress don’t use the new revenue to feed the pigs at the trough. Once the debit is reduced to a certain point, stop the tax increase. When I needed extra money I got a second job and reduced my costs. All of this of course means Congress has do its job and make unpopular decisions. I pretty much dispise all politicians, particularly the bunch currently running things, so flame away

Solid assessment, the cuts need to be deep and permanent though, otherwise we are an election or two away from being right back to 36Trillion in debt, funding gender studies in Ethiopia, ect, ect

 

[cowdisciple]

These tariffs are nothing if you're serious about getting the US back on its feet.

I don't disagree with the rest of your post, but these tariffs will do nothing to get the US back on its feet.

If you want to balance the budget, or go even further and pay down the debt, you need to either reduce expenses or raise more revenue.

The tariffs will bring in less than the cost of the tax cuts they're talking about, therefore the deficit, and the debt, will increase. And that's not even counting the global economic damage from a trade war.

Payroll is like 1% of federal spending - you could literally fire every government employee and it would be a drop in the bucket.

If military spending, social security, Medicare and Medicaid are all off the table for cuts, the only answer is a tax increase for someone. If tax increases are also off the table, I guess we'll find out where the breaking point is.

 

[COHunter33]

All I know is that I work for a large oil and gas company and Trump’s policies are about the worst thing that could’ve happened to the industry. Drill baby Drill and tariffs have lead to cheap oil pricing.

 

[Hnthrdr]

I think we all agree the deficit is the true problem. He corruption and fraud part I believe is overblown to serve political ends. I worked as a govt manager for 22 years. I can guarantee you I would have been fired if I tried a quarter of the stuff alledfged and I know my employees would have turn me in for doing it. Is there fraud and waste yes undoubtedly but just because you don’t like something doesn’t make it fraud and waste.

As for Congress the main problem I see is re-electing the same idiots over and over. Do I have any faith in them putting country above their re-election chances, nope. Do I have any faith in them making hard decisions for the betterment of the country, nope. Do I have faith in them compromising their viewpoint to reach a consensus for moving forward, nope.

Tariffs will not generate enough income alone to deal with the deficit. Spending cuts will not generate enough income to deal with the deficit. Cutting taxes will not generate enough added investment to deal with the deficit. Since we’re all economic geniuses here how does the country go about reducing that 3 trillion dollar debt. I agree what’s worked in the past isn’t helping.

I think the fraud we are talking about mostly is the NGO complex this nation has been doing like a coke head from the 80’s these “non-profit” NGO’s were gobbling up tax money like there is no tomorrow and what was the ROI? Ummmm seemed like a whole lot of graft and money flowing to and from politicians to politically connected friends… I mean astounding numbers, 100’s of thousands for this 10’s of millions for that. Billions for this and we had very little to show for it, basically quasi legalized money laundering. I see it all the time at the city and state level, with what I call the homeless industrial complex, thousands of people “employed” making big bucks that aren’t from donations it’s just tax dollars redistributed to a particular voting block, while in all honesty the problem is propped up and supported by those in power, this is what has to stop, forever. It’s not our responsibility to solve aids or starvation around the globe, we gotta focus on USA first and foremost for a while

 

[Hnthrdr]

All I know is that I work for a large oil and gas company and Trump’s policies are about the worst thing that could’ve happened to the industry. Drill baby Drill and tariffs have lead to cheap oil pricing.

Oh no! Cheap energy… I know it’s not great for oil and gas but it’s pretty awesome for consumers…

 

[Ucsdryder]

Soooo does this mean there will be more turnback tags this year? Asking for a friend…

 

[COHunter33]

Oh no! Cheap energy… I know it’s not great for oil and gas but it’s pretty awesome for consumers…

True, Trump has been better for green energy than Biden ever was. Just not what pro oil and gas people thought they were voting for.

 

[Poser]

AGreed

Oh my. Reagan must have had the very first case of TDS.

 

[KurtR]

It's already been covered, this has been represented as reciprocal with most assuming tariff for tariff. It's not. It's simply the trade deficit divided by imports to give "what they're tariffing the United States". We are then tariffing them at half that rate.
If anyone has taken time to try to investigate actual tariff numbers you quickly find out it's a complex ordeal. If you want to dig into tariff numbers and find sources showing anything close to the claims I'd be glad to read it because I'm not finding it.
If you truly believe trade imports and exports must be equal there's no discussion to be had. IMO that opinion isn't compatible with reality
The other issue is labor. Constant claims about the lazy entitled etc.While this one is debatable a dive into unemployment and workforce participation rates doesn't seem to support the existence of a large "parasite class". Workforce participation peaked in 98/00 and was at or below current rates from the 70s back to the beginning of available data. We're only a few percentage points from peak participation. Many are back at home because it's cheaper to raise your own kids these days. Homeschooling is trendy. Tradwife/stay at home Mom is cool again. That doesn't even get into our unfortunate reliance on immigrant labor

Yep that’s been covered. I want to know how to fix the situation we are in. Lots of this will never work with out a solution. Just doing what we have seems to failed.

 

[Kimber7man]

March 27, 2018

 

[MuleyFever]

The tariffs will bring in less than the cost of the tax cuts they're talking about, therefore the deficit, and the debt, will increase. And that's not even counting the global economic damage from a trade war.

Funny how that works.

 

[average]

Yep that’s been covered. I want to know how to fix the situation we are in. Lots of this will never work with out a solution. Just doing what we have seems to failed.

Can't have an honest discussion when many are ignoring the fact. It's fact the "tariff" we are "victim" of is based on an equation with unattainable expectations. I personally could support targeted tariffs voted on by Congress. Sure that's a pipedream but it's much more realistic than arguing for balancing imports and exports. It also has the advantage of not pissing on all our allies at once.
But really what was the purpose of this thread? I don't think it was for us all to get the crayons out and solve the problem for Don. OP was more of a "how are these tariffs going to effect me?" "what are they?" You're turning it into "if you don't agree with these tariffs you must have a solution".
Surely there's someone that wants to waste some time digging into the actual tariff numbers. Break break down imports vs exports per 100,000 people, imports vs exports adjusted for GDP, actual tariffs, etc. The government really should have that laid out or at the very least some justification. Instead they've made an outrageous claim supported by an equation based on an unattainable idea.

 

[KurtR]

Can't have an honest discussion when many are ignoring the fact. It's fact the "tariff" we are "victim" of is based on an equation with unattainable expectations. I personally could support targeted tariffs voted on by Congress. Sure that's a pipedream but it's much more realistic than arguing for balancing imports and exports. It also has the advantage of not pissing on all our allies at once.
But really what was the purpose of this thread? I don't think it was for us all to get the crayons out and solve the problem for Don. OP was more of a "how are these tariffs going to effect me?" "what are they?" You're turning it into "if you don't agree with these tariffs you must have a solution".
Surely there's someone that wants to waste some time digging into the actual tariff numbers. Break break down imports vs exports per 100,000 people, imports vs exports adjusted for GDP, actual tariffs, etc. The government really should have that laid out or at the very least some justification. Instead they've made an outrageous claim supported by an equation based on an unattainable idea.

Threads evolve. So in short trump is bad.