Liberation Day

[average]

I thought I heard somewhere that the US was tired of being taken advantage of by a lot of countries and that the we voted for a president to even things out. I think Trump is doing everything he said he was going to do. Nobody wants a trade war but everyone wants fair trade. The goal isn’t to destroy the market or make things unaffordable for families, it’s to get fair and even trade.

What do you consider free trade? Do imports and exports need to match to be considered free trade?

 

[Dos Perros]

Some good deals to be had...just sayin.

I'll ride this thing all the way to the scene of the crash.

 

[Flyjunky]

Money doesn't go where it's wanted, money goes where it is treated well.

Jobs flow to places where value-production is treated well.

Manufacturing wasn't nearly wiped out in America by paying labor well - it was nearly wiped out by the home environment being inhospitable to value-production, by way of high regulation and taxation.

Those jobs left to places with less regulation and taxation - to where the environment was more hospitable for value production.

Germany and Japan didn't build their #2 and #3 largest economies in the globe from the 70s-2000s with cheap labor - they did it by making their environments more hospitable to value production. In large part, by having import tariffs on US goods while getting "free-trade" in return.

Dubai didn't get exceedingly wealthy from oil - it did it by making the environment as welcoming as possible to value-production, with zero corporate taxes and little regulation.

Money and jobs (value and value-creation) go where they are treated well. It really is that simple.

Very true, we’ve been seeing this here in the states with large businesses moving out of states and relocating to more hospitable states.

 

[KurtR]

Sure seems like a lot of feelings and not a lot of facts. If anything everyone has been far too friendly and hopeful about this mess. It's unfortunate the average American won't even dig into this enough to see the numbers claimed are BS or at the very least being completely misrepresented.

Well inform us.

 

[TandKHunting]

Well inform us.

Gosh Kurt….

Don’t you know? If people disagree with this guy it’s feelings because we are all stupid and don’t know anything. Only his opinion is fact. Get with the program.

 

[Riplip]

U.S. Senate: The Senate Passes the Smoot-Hawley Tariff

1921: The Senate Passes the Smoot-Hawley Tariff

www.senate.gov

Interesting article posted on the Republican Senate's own website in reference to the Smoot-Hawley Act in 1930 which involved similar level of Tariffs. A few quotes from the article.

"the Senate passed the Smoot-Hawley Tariff, among the most catastrophic acts in congressional history."

"As the economists predicted, the high tariff proved to be a disaster. Even before its enactment, U.S. trading partners began retaliating by raising their tariff rates, which froze international trade."

While I understand that the past certainly does not predict the future, I think we are underestimating the overall negative impact this will have on our economy and we will once again be looking for the Fed to bail us out. I think this will go down as one of the worst decisions in the history of our country. Yes, this is an opinion and none of us know what the outcome will be. I hope I am wrong.

 

[ozyclint]

Trade imbalances aren’t the enemy. Look at trade between states - do you feel victimized because your state has a trade imbalance with another state?

Yes I'm a victim!
Because I don't live in Wyoming I can't hunt their wilderness areas.

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

Well inform us.

Guy joined today just to post in this thread...

 

[dallen]

I am very far from being knowledgeable on stocks, markets, global trade and all the other “stuff” in turmoil right now but I am old enough to have lived through a couple episodes of stock market implosions. I’m pretty sure that Donald Trump didn’t just wreck America……..he did what he said he was going to do and it’s just one thing in our world that needs to be shook up to reset.

I remember when the market took a nose dive in 2008. Same kind of hysteria about how bad it was and how we might not ever recover and all the other screams of the sky is crashing down….I was probably around mid career and had all my 401K in S&P type of mutual funds….yup, the value dollar balance was ugly…..but the number of shares I held didn’t change….they were just worth less per share at that point in time. My time horizon for retirement was still a long ways out so I did what I thought was most prudent……I maxed out all my contributions. Share prices were at a huge discount and in my mind, every dollar I could scratch up would buy way more shares than prior to the nose dive event…….and guess what, the market recovered and I had way more shares than I could have had if the drop didn’t happen. I had coworkers who were very near retirement panic and dumped higher risk funds to purchase low risk or bond funds. They were never able to recover with their short horizon and the “losses” actually became losses.

I’m hearing the same noise now…..different color, but the same noise.

If I were a young guy, with a decade or more time before retirement I’d likely be buying in as much as I could afford. I’m actually contemplating some small moves to try and get in on some killer prices , the trick is when….but I heard once, if you try to time the absolute bottom, you’ll likely miss it……unless your a Pelosi…..

 

[displacedtexan]

Sorry, some of us work and have no idea what was said in post #303.

That’s why we have you to update us and keep abreast of what was posted/answered back in post #303, thanks for that.

I start at 0900, so 5 minutes. Ill check with you for updates as to what occurred in my absence upon my return.

If only the posts stayed up so you could pick up where you left off.

 

[ddd-shooter]

The US has been taken advantage of so hard under free trade that we're the richest, most powerful economy in the world. Clearly we got screwed, better put a stop to it.

While I agree that we’re number one, it’s hard to vaunt praise on an economy that has basically vacated the middle of the country and most of the middle class.

 

[Flyjunky]

While I agree that we’re number one, it’s hard to vaunt praise on an economy that has basically vacated the middle of the country and most of the middle class.

And is $36+ trillion in debt.

 

[supersonic_g&t]

Germany and Japan didn't build their #2 and #3 largest economies in the globe from the 70s-2000s with cheap labor - they did it by making their environments more hospitable to value production. In large part, by having import tariffs on US goods while getting "free-trade" in return.

Interesting points. Japan really bought into the American Dr. Deming's idea of Total Quality Management when they were rebuilding after the war (and winning the annual Deming Prize there is still a high honor). Many companies like Toyota offered lifetime employment too by promising not to do layoffs.

Somehow America took a different direction in the 70s and 80s where anything was on the table as long as quarterly share price went up (offshoring). Still, shareholder earnings take priority at the expense of worker's wages.

There's an old saying, if you pay your high performers and goof-offs the same, then you end up with more goof-offs than high performers. Young people don't have much work ethic these days , but I wonder if that in part explains it. Hard work does not seem to get you very far at a big corporation these days.

Like others have said, I don't think the tariffs will fix anything overnight, but we have to try something!

 

[conley417]

Gosh Kurt….

Don’t you know? If people disagree with this guy it’s feelings because we are all stupid and don’t know anything. Only his opinion is fact. Get with the program.

Looks like it’s a brand new account. Might be a burner account

 

[HuntHarder]

Who creates a burner account, just to argue their political views? That's pretty weak imo

 

[RS3579]

Why did the president NOT announce major incentives to build manufacturing in the USA?That should have been a major announcement along with the liberation day festivities. Womp womp! Because he has no clue what he’s doing.

 

[CorbLand]

Who creates a burner account, just to argue their political views? That's pretty weak imo

Quite a few people actually.

 

[cowdisciple]

While I agree that we’re number one, it’s hard to vaunt praise on an economy that has basically vacated the middle of the country and most of the middle class.

See below.

And is $36+ trillion in debt.

The tax cuts for billionaires that they're planning on next will certainly increase our debt. If they were actually planning to use this money to pay down the debt, it'd still be a silly way to go about it but I'd feel better.

These tariffs are essentially a sales tax, which will fall most heavily on Americans who spend all their income and who rely on inexpensive imports, i.e. the working class.

However it still won't be anywhere near enough to pay for the tax cuts, which is why they're planning to pretend the tax cuts don't cost anything :/. The centibillionaires in the Cabinet don't spend centibillions, so they won't be paying.

 

[NDGuy]

 

[RockAndSage]

Who creates a burner account, just to argue their political views? That's pretty weak imo

Russians do. Professional Russian psyopers, intentionally trying to sow division and anger, on places exactly like this.