Let's talk grazing on public lands...

[Cowbell]

This thread is opening a can of worms, but I hope that enough knowledgeable biologists, hunters, grazers, etc. will chime in as to help us maybe find a solution to one of our largest issues... not enough public land/animals/tags.
To begin - I am a rancher - but I operate 100% on deeded land. I have many many friends that graze public - some are good stewards, more are poor stewards. But to be frank, I'm to the point where I am sick of seeing public land wildlife habitat overgrazed and abused by those who either don't know any better, are too tight to destock, or don't care anything about the wildlife.
For example - last year I spent multiple occasions on large tracts of public land in New Mexico. I saw 50k+ acres of prime deer and elk country completely wiped out by 2 different ranchers. They had never destocked through the drought and even still had cows stocked when there was nothing left to eat for them. Completely void of wildlife now. I find examples of this is pretty much every unit I have ever hunted. Abd I realize that there are a lot of good managers out there but that doesn't offset the bad.
Is it really the best use of our public land resources to allow one entity to profit off of it when it could inhabit much more wildlife and provide many more direct food opportunities for hunters. I just think our public land needs to be put back to use for the public and only use grazing when grazing is needed... not as grazing being the primary use.
What are others thoughts on this?

 

[Bearsears]

Agreed though im no expert on the topic. I know my favorite elk spot for archery has a ton of cattle and sheep on it every season. There is nothing like trying to enjoy the woods while listening too relentless bleating day and night.
Its also been my experience that the hands tending the stock either 1. Speak zero English. or 2. Think and act like you are trespassing on their land.

I sometimes enjoy the later seasons more because they are all gone. Its a tough situation because I also understand the need to use the land to some extent. Seems there needs to be better balance and better management.

 

[Cowbell]

Agreed though im no expert on the topic. I know my favorite elk spot for archery has a ton of cattle and sheep on it every season. There is nothing like trying to enjoy the woods while listening too relentless bleating day and night.
Its also been my experience that the hands tending the stock either 1. Speak zero English. or 2. Think and act like you are trespassing on their land.

I sometimes enjoy the later seasons more because they are all gone. Its a tough situation because I also understand the need to use the land to some extent. Seems there needs to be better balance and better management.

This sounds like the area I hunt a lot in Wyoming. My last trip there, We had a large elk herd with multiple bugling bulls late one evening so made a plan for the next morning and backed out. Hiked all the way up the mountain the next morning only to find the meadows covered with 1000+ head of sheep that were rotated in at daybreak.

 

[Bearsears]

This sounds like the area I hunt a lot in Wyoming. My last trip there, We had a large elk herd with multiple bugling bulls late one evening so made a plan for the next morning and backed out. Hiked all the way up the mountain the next morning only to find the meadows covered with 5k head of sheep that were rotated in at daybreak.

Exactly

 

[Baddog]

Need to feed 350 million Americans at a reasonable cost somehow...

 

[Baddog]

Typically summer feed isn’t the limiting factor to wildlife survival

 

[BRTreedogs]

The unit i saved 12 deer points for is so over grazed that the deer can ether no longer survive there or do not care to.
The chance of that hunt being what I was hoping for when I started building points is zero.

There are also some wilderness areas they have beef in.

I understand they have there rights but im bitter none the less.
Its tough, I know those cow ranchers do alot of hard work for not much pay.
Atleast there working for there welfare.

The only way I see it improving is for the cowmen to increase profit with a more farm to table direct sales in a specialized product. Cut out the middle man.
And in turn put less mouths on the land.

And wild horses. People want to eat those things.
People want Otc tags.
Let's put the smack down on those grass pulling poop factories.

 

[cnelk]

You're barking up the wrong tree.

Take your concerns to the US Forest Service. The land responsibility lands in their venue. They may not know what ranchers are doing.

In some of the areas I hunt, the ranchers are required to switch grazing patterns every year. [One year they start higher and push down, the next year start low and push higher]

According to the USFS, this is to let the wild grasses and wild flowers not to be grazed at the same time, year after year.

I also know that the USFS will listen to valid concerns. But not so much to complaints about cow pies.

 

[HaydenLane]

Need to feed 350 million Americans at a reasonable cost somehow...

Americans waste 30-40% of our total food production. About 1 pound per person per day. Maybe a little scarcity could positively change our attitude toward food.

I understand they have there rights but im bitter none the less.
Its tough, I know those cow ranchers do alot of hard work for not much pay.
Atleast there working for there welfare.

I grew up in and still live in cattle country. Come from a ranching family, even. Sure, it’s been a rough year, but they’re getting by. Last I checked (and it’s been a while) the average rancher was making around $15k a year more than the average worker, net income. That isn’t bad. It’s hard to feel sorry for guys hauling cattle in a Denali HD.

My point is, we can afford to un-subsidize ranching a little. Public land grazing is far too cheap and loosely regulated/enforced, and our wildlife pays the price.

 

[ChrisA]

Hmmm, might be changing my view on imitation meat substitutes. I'm not about to knowingly eat it though.

I agree with the post on horse tags

Chris

 

[roadrunner]

You're barking up the wrong tree.

Take your concerns to the US Forest Service. The land responsibility lands in their venue. They may not know what ranchers are doing

No he's not and the good 'ol boy system is alive and well in government agencies especially in Nuevo Mehico...

 

[tradman]

We have damn wild burros/assess running around in Arizona. Everytime I go out to enjoy the outdoors, always run into them.

 

[gelton]

It is my understanding that most of these lands have to be managed for profit in most states. If the states aren't able to log them due to outcry, and they aren't able to mine them due to outcry, then the least egregious way is through grazing rights.

Many of these ranchers have been grazing these lands for generations and some while the states were still territories. To change that now would be taking away livelihoods that are already on the decline.

With that being said, a CO game warden told us that if we see any cattle after October 1st (the deadline to have them off public) we could shoot em' lol.

 

[CorbLand]

It is my understanding that most of these lands have to be managed for profit in most states. If the states aren't able to log them due to outcry, and they aren't able to mine them due to outcry, then the least egregious way is through grazing rights.

Many of these ranchers have been grazing these lands for generations and some while the states were still territories. To change that now would be taking away livelihoods that are already on the decline.

With that being said, a CO game warden told us that if we see any cattle after October 1st (the deadline to have them off public) we could shoot em' lol.

Most States require that state ground turn a profit but federal ground doesnt have to.

 

[tradman]

It is my understanding that most of these lands have to be managed for profit in most states. If the states aren't able to log them due to outcry, and they aren't able to mine them due to outcry, then the least egregious way is through grazing rights.

Many of these ranchers have been grazing these lands for generations and some while the states were still territories. To change that now would be taking away livelihoods that are already on the decline.

With that being said, a CO game warden told us that if we see any cattle after October 1st (the deadline to have them off public) we could shoot em' lol.

Talk about livelihood. The ranchers had no problems taking away and over the lands from the Native American tribes that were here long before them, before their was territories.

 

[gelton]

Talk about livelihood. The ranchers had no problems taking away and over the lands from the Native American tribes that were here long before them, before their was territories.

Conquest is the history of the world...every land that was settled was taken away from someone.

 

[SonnyDay]

This is a tough one.

Chronic Wasting Disease is the result of Sheep grazing among the wild herds of elk, deer, etc.

40% of deer whose blood was sampled in 2021 in the upper midwest had contracted Coronavirus.

Food in this country is cheaper than it has ever been... and as others have noted we waste a significant portion of it.

I love a ribeye as much as the next guy... but it seems as though more balance and enforcement is needed. But that of course means "big government" gets a little bigger--which is a hard sell among many hunters.

Good to know on the October 1st date in CO! I would absolutely shoot a cow if I'm striking out on elk...

 

[Legend]

Lets talk about the cost of the grazing lease on federal land. It is simply government subsidized ranching. The federal rate is somewhere near $1.50/aum. So an "au" is a cow calf pair and "m" is month for those that aren't familiar. That means for a $1.50 you can feed an cow/calf for a month. In contrast I lease my private land for $23/aum and I have heard in more competive markets $30 is the normal rate.

Call your local politician and ask for your public land to at least get market value.

 

[CorbLand]

Lets talk about the cost of the grazing lease on federal land. It is simply government subsidized ranching. The federal rate is somewhere near $1.50/aum. So an "au" is a cow calf pair and "m" is month for those that aren't familiar. That means for a $1.50 you can feed an aum for a month. In contrast I lease my private land for $23/aum and I have heard in more competive markets $30 is the normal rate.

Call your local politician and ask for your public to at least get market value.

If I remember correctly they cant raise it more than 25% a year. So it would take a long time to get to market value.

 

[Legend]

If I remember correctly they cant raise it more than 25% a year. So it would take a long time to get to market value.

You can change the law and take that BS regulation away.