Let's talk grazing on public lands...

[Pro953]

If I remember correctly they cant raise it more than 25% a year. So it would take a long time to get to market value.

Actually it would be pretty fast. At 25% increase annually you could get from 1.50 to 30 in 14 years. I would say that is pretty fast considering you are increasing the cost per grazing acre 20x.

Probably the right speed to keep the industry stable but make the cost uncomfortable enough to change some behavior.


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[Timeless61]

Chronic Wasting Disease is the result of Sheep grazing among the wild herds of elk, deer, etc.

can you provide me with a link to the studies that proved this? I did not realize this had been proven. CWD was first observed in captive deer (not to say it wasn’t in the wild but it was not observed prior to the deer in captivity). I did see a study indicating whitetail deer could end up with scrapie after intracerebral inoculation with scrapie.

 

[RS_Non-Res]

Don't fall for an us vs them argument, that's what the anti's want. Lots of little weak enemies fighting amongst themselves so there is no strength against them. Even though we're both imperfect, ranchers and hunters have much more need to work together than to fight against each other.

 

[realunlucky]

It is my understanding that most of these lands have to be managed for profit in most states. If the states aren't able to log them due to outcry, and they aren't able to mine them due to outcry, then the least egregious way is through grazing rights.

Many of these ranchers have been grazing these lands for generations and some while the states were still territories. To change that now would be taking away livelihoods that are already on the decline.

With that being said, a CO game warden told us that if we see any cattle after October 1st (the deadline to have them off public) we could shoot em' lol.

If that's true we should auction the grazing rights to the highest bidder, these generations of grazing for pennies on the acre aren't helping anything except thier own bottom line.
Plenty of cattle are raised on private land those guys completing for the same market share without government handouts.

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[CorbLand]

Actually it would be pretty fast. At 25% increase annually you could get from 1.50 to 30 in 14 years. I would say that is pretty fast considering you are increasing the cost per grazing acre 20x.

Probably the right speed to keep the industry stable but make the cost uncomfortable enough to change some behavior.


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I agree that it wouldnt be a long time in the grand scheme of everything. Mostly was saying that its not going to happen quick and that any proposition for a major increase would be difficult.

The AUM price has pretty much gone down since 1981. There have been a few years that its gone up by ~30 cents but overall, its decreased to 1.35 which is the minimum amount that can be charged. It was proposed to be raised to 2.50 in 2017 and that got shot down pretty quick. It was 2.31 in 1981 and given inflation since then, the equivalent today would be ~7.00.

 

[gelton]

If that's true we should auction the grazing rights to the highest bidder, these generations of grazing for pennies on the acre aren't helping anything except thier own bottom line.
Plenty of cattle are raised on private land those guys completing for the same market share without government handouts.

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Don't disagree as it would show a true market value...

 

[BRTreedogs]

This is a tough one.

Chronic Wasting Disease is the result of Sheep grazing among the wild herds of elk, deer, etc.

40% of deer whose blood was sampled in 2021 in the upper midwest had contracted Coronavirus.

Food in this country is cheaper than it has ever been... and as others have noted we waste a significant portion of it.

I love a ribeye as much as the next guy... but it seems as though more balance and enforcement is needed. But that of course means "big government" gets a little bigger--which is a hard sell among many hunters.

Good to know on the October 1st date in CO! I would absolutely shoot a cow if I'm striking out on elk...

Idk where you do your shopping man but it about $50 for one little plastic bag of food out here.

Most expensive food in my lifetime

 

[Cowbell]

Typically summer feed isn’t the limiting factor to wildlife survival

Winter feed is stockpiled summer feed at lower elevations

 

[Cowbell]

Need to feed 350 million Americans at a reasonable cost somehow...

We are currently exporting beef

 

[Cowbell]

You're barking up the wrong tree.

Take your concerns to the US Forest Service. The land responsibility lands in their venue. They may not know what ranchers are doing.

In some of the areas I hunt, the ranchers are required to switch grazing patterns every year. [One year they start higher and push down, the next year start low and push higher]

According to the USFS, this is to let the wild grasses and wild flowers not to be grazed at the same time, year after year.

I also know that the USFS will listen to valid concerns. But not so much to complaints about cow pies.

This is a discussion to get more information - not trying to change anything

 

[Cowbell]

Lets talk about the cost of the grazing lease on federal land. It is simply government subsidized ranching. The federal rate is somewhere near $1.50/aum. So an "au" is a cow calf pair and "m" is month for those that aren't familiar. That means for a $1.50 you can feed an cow/calf for a month. In contrast I lease my private land for $23/aum and I have heard in more competive markets $30 is the normal rate.

Call your local politician and ask for your public land to at least get market value.

This is my take as well.

 

[fatlander]

It’s hard to feel sorry for guys hauling cattle in a Denali HD.

If they drove stock Denali’s it wouldn’t be that bad, but all I see are the ones with custom powder coated bumpers, headache bars and flat beds pulling a brand new trailer that has their farm name lit up in neon.


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[Trial153]

Welfare is welfare ….

 

[Tick]

Are stocking rates regulated and monitored by the land agency in charge? How long are most lease agreements?
Big differences between a cow trader and a cow man. Most herds I've seen on public land didn't look to be managed by a cow man. Good and bad in every industry.

 

[roadrunner]

Talk about livelihood. The ranchers had no problems taking away and over the lands from the Native American tribes that were here long before them, before their was territories.

Convenient, don't you think, that there is no written history of the long before era, only an oral history? It's absurd to think a group of people could walk thousands of miles from Asia and end up on a continent, only to be isolated by water with zero technological advances of any kind while the rest of the world developed complex cultures and societies with writing and number systems.

I don't buy it...

 

[JW7]

I’m a hunter and not a rancher, but public land is public land. Most public grazing is regulated to some degree, just like hunting. The last thing I want is more government regulation. I hunt WY and CO, and I’ve not had any bad experiences with public grazing.

 

[Poser]

In my immediate area, the cows I have a problem with are the grazing rights on wintering grounds. If you’re going to close access to wintering grounds as a limited resource, why the hell are cattle grazing the shit out of it all summer?

The grazing that I run into the most often that has the most impact is sheep grazing. Those things graze the land down to nothing and shit all over everything, including directly in the streams, in the process. Add in the sheep dogs to the mix and it’s a huge impact to have such concentrated grazing pressure.

There’s one family who has most or all of the local sheep grazing permits, 3 generations deep. The patriarch has a saying, “my daddy always said that the high country is for the sheep.” Um, no, the high country is for the elk, the goats, the mulies and the big horns. Your daddy lied to you.

I’ve never had an issue with the Shepard’s or the dogs, but I’ve heard of problematic and aggressive sheep dogs causing issues on trails.

 

[gelton]

In my immediate area, the cows I have a problem with are the grazing rights on wintering grounds. If you’re going to close access to wintering grounds as a limited resource, why the hell are cattle grazing the shit out of it all summer?

The grazing that I run into the most often that has the most impact is sheep grazing. Those things graze the land down to nothing and shit all over everything, including directly in the streams, in the process. Add in the sheep dogs to the mix and it’s a huge impact to have such concentrated grazing pressure.

There’s one family who has most or all of the local sheep grazing permits, 3 generations deep. The patriarch has a saying, “my daddy always said that the high country is for the sheep.” Um, no, the high country is for the elk, the goats, the mulies and the big horns. Your daddy lied to you.

I’ve never had an issue with the Shepard’s or the dogs, but I’ve heard of problematic and aggressive sheep dogs causing issues on trails.

I've run into a few dogs that took a poke from a sharp trekking pole to teach them to keep their distance.

 

[Idaho_Potato]

If they drove stock Denali’s it wouldn’t be that bad, but all I see are the ones with custom powder coated bumpers, headache bars and flat beds pulling a brand new trailer that has their farm name lit up in neon.


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You guys are confusing spoiled rich cowboy LARPers with ranchers. There is a whole world of rich kids with new diesels, new stock trailers, and 20k "ranch" horses running around the west playing john wayne with daddies millions. I know a few of them. Please don't confuse these idiots with actual ranchers and families struggling to get by in the cattle business.

The truth is that a cow barely pays for herself in today's cow/calf economy. The corporate beef packers are the only folks making money today. If you see these kinds of setups pulling cattle or horses around, you can be damn sure that money was made in a different industry, and its being used to support a cattle hobby rather than a cattle business.

 

[Legend]

If that's true we should auction the grazing rights to the highest bidder, these generations of grazing for pennies on the acre aren't helping anything except thier own bottom line.
Plenty of cattle are raised on private land those guys completing for the same market share without government handouts.

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I agree. If the private land rancher is making it then the public land rancher can make it at a market price.

As for the leases i beleive there is some stipulation where leases to usfs land were only offered to big adjoining ranches. That requirement would need to be removed then we could theoretical bid on the leases.

However, here in Montana we have stateland and it is available for anyone to bud on every 10 years. Yet the grazing lease price is still around $13/aum. Better but still welfare for the rancher at the expense of our school system (where all the stateland money is dedicated to support).