Lead poisoning

[ButterBean]

That’s pretty much exactly how I saw it.

Your totally off the reservation, If that's how you really think it's pitiful, all the hook baiting is really juvenile. Seems you've picked up the torch that your hero dropped over on LRH.
To everyone here, I will put my hand on the Bible and swear to My Lord and Savior that I personally know that No One in the Hammer Organization want's or is trying to get lead bullets banned. to say or think anything of the like is absolutely ludicrous. I'm sure all of your fan boy's in the I hate Hammer's fan club are proud of you and patting you on the back.
Once again I don't care what bullet anyone shoots but we are supposed to be stewards of the land.
We have Bald Eagles here and we shoot and leave coyotes and ground hogs so this video opened my eyes as I have never thought about predators ingesting lead or any other substance for that matter from dead critters or gut piles,
I apologize to all as I mean no offence or disrespect to anyone here but this is a childish ploy from a the I hate Hammer's fan cub on LRH and nothing more, once again I don't care what bullet you shoot
Bean

 

[Dos XX]

So is copper good for birds and predators and fishes? I googled a little but didn't find anything specific to this topic.

 

[ButterBean]

So is copper good for birds and predators and fishes? I googled a little but didn't find anything specific to this topic.

I doubt that any kind of metal is good for them but I have never heard of copper poisoning

 

[FLATHEAD]

I havent seen a decline in the raptor populations at all.
In fact, it seems they're freakin everywhere.
Bald Eagles galore. I almost hit one going to work the other day
as he flew across the road .
Used to be a big thing to see one, but now it's no big deal.
Red Tails , Ospreys, Sharpshins, Marsh Hawks, Bald Eagles, Vultures, even
Merlins/Kestrels.
Y'all can sell that lead is evil B.S. somewhere else cause I aint buying it.

 

[BjornF16]

Copper can be poisonous if ingested, at least in humans.

Copper poisoning Information | Mount Sinai - New York

Learn about Copper poisoning or find a doctor at Mount Sinai Health System.

www.mountsinai.org

 

[Ucsdryder]

Your totally off the reservation, If that's how you really think it's pitiful, all the hook baiting is really juvenile. Seems you've picked up the torch that your hero dropped over on LRH.
To everyone here, I will put my hand on the Bible and swear to My Lord and Savior that I personally know that No One in the Hammer Organization want's or is trying to get lead bullets banned. to say or think anything of the like is absolutely ludicrous. I'm sure all of your fan boy's in the I hate Hammer's fan club are proud of you and patting you on the back.
Once again I don't care what bullet anyone shoots but we are supposed to be stewards of the land.
We have Bald Eagles here and we shoot and leave coyotes and ground hogs so this video opened my eyes as I have never thought about predators ingesting lead or any other substance for that matter from dead critters or gut piles,
I apologize to all as I mean no offence or disrespect to anyone here but this is a childish ploy from a the I hate Hammer's fan cub on LRH and nothing more, once again I don't care what bullet you shoot
Bean

Wow…

First of all, I’m not sure who my hero is on LRH? Never knew I had a hero, I guess if someone really pressed me, it would be my dad, but kind of seems weird to call anybody my hero.

Yes I posted a video I found “interesting” to say the least. At times the hammer crowd on LRH, yourself included, have a tendency to drown out anybody that doesn’t agree.

As far as hammers and monos in general, I have some, and will shoot them in certain situations, but yes, I prefer a high BC lead core bullet.

I purposely posted this without any leading questions in my original post, allowing other to come up with their own opinions. What’s funny is that hammer posted the video, so why would you have an issue with someone reposting a video that hammer posted?!

As far as hammer not being against lead bullets, that’s entirely possible and as someone stated, it’s a bad look being a non-lead bullet producer, posting an anti-lead bullet video and talking about how lead bullets leave fragments of lead in gel, but your copper bullets don’t. If they’re against the ban of lead, that’s great, but after watching the video, that’s not the perception of anybody that doesn’t know hammers intentions or feelings. If you take a Step back, ignore your feelings about hammer and your friendship with hammer, I think even you would agree the optics of the video would lead someone to believe that hammer is more aligned with the anti-lead crowd than they are with the lead crowd. It sounds like you have internal knowledge of hammer, most of us don’t. That internal knowledge probably also led you to attack me on here.

 

[ButterBean]

Copper can be poisonous if ingested, at least in humans.

Copper poisoning Information | Mount Sinai - New York

Learn about Copper poisoning or find a doctor at Mount Sinai Health System.

www.mountsinai.org

Oh I feel sure anything will poison you if you get enough of it in your system

 

[ButterBean]

Wow…

First of all, I’m not sure who my hero is on LRH? Never knew I had a hero, I guess if someone really pressed me, it would be my dad, but kind of seems weird to call anybody my hero.

Yes I posted a video I found “interesting” to say the least. At times the hammer crowd on LRH, yourself included, have a tendency to drown out anybody that doesn’t agree.

As far as hammers and monos in general, I have some, and will shoot them in certain situations, but yes, I prefer a high BC lead core bullet.

I purposely posted this without any leading questions in my original post, allowing other to come up with their own opinions.

As far as hammer not being against lead bullets, that’s entirely possible and as someone stated, it’s a bad look being a non-lead bullet producer, posting an anti-lead bullet video and talking about how lead bullets leave fragments of lead in gel, but your copper bullets don’t. If they’re against the ban of lead, that’s great, but that’s not the perception of anybody that doesn’t know hammers intentions or feelings. If you take a Step back, ignore your feelings about hammer and your friendship with hammer, I think even you would agree the optics of the video would lead someone to believe that hammer is more aligned with the anti-lead crowd than they are with the lead crowd. It sounds like you have internal knowledge of hammer, most of us don’t. That internal knowledge probably also led you to attack me on here.

I'm not gonna sling LRH Mud over here, It don't take a white coat and a slide rule to figure it out.
That will be my last word to you on this subject

 

[Ucsdryder]

I'm not gonna sling LRH Mud over here, It don't take a white coat and a slide rule to figure it out.
That will be my last word to you on this subject

Pretty much as I thought you’d respond because there’s no other response based off my post.

 

[Pony Soldier]

In the country I hunt, we rarely see eagles at any time or magpies. However within an hour of the shot or by morning 20-40 ravens will decend upon the site and the gut pile will be gone by the second morning. I don't remember even seeing many coyote tracks around a kill site except to drag off the heavy parts the ravens can't fly away with.

When they outlawed lead shot we saw the eagle population increase along the river. It wasn't the less lead in their system but the tremendous increase in wounded ducks and geese. Consequently instead of migrating after the salmon spawn they lingered picking off the cripples.

The only dead eagle I have ever seen was below the high voltage powerlines that carry power to the cities. Most of the ones I heard about were hit by trucks while they were feeding on dead deer on the side of the road.

 

[BjornF16]

It won’t be long before they start going after copper; they are already studying it. Best to stick together than go down by self inflicted circular firing squad

Copper pellets simulating oral exposure to copper ammunition: absence of toxicity in American kestrels (Falco sparverius) - PubMed

To evaluate the potential toxicity of copper (Cu) in raptors that may consume Cu bullets, shotgun pellets containing Cu, or Cu fragments as they feed on wildlife carcasses, we studied the effects of metallic Cu exposure in a surrogate, the American kestrel (Falco sparverius). Sixteen kestrels...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[eoperator]

All of this hammer bullets bickering gets old.

 

[RealMuddyboots]

So tell me who has to bring up a potential environmental problem associated with lead? Or any other toxic chemical environmental impact. What's the criteria to have an open discussion on a topic without full scale personal assaults? Can a bullet manufacturer care about the environment without the personal vendetta attacks that occur daily even before this documentary was released? Can anyone actually discuss the data with class and dignity or be a (o) at it? So far there seems to be a few that prefer the lack of class.

Does every potential science related opinion have a hidden agenda? Why did we remove DDT or PCB's from commercial production and use.? Environmental analysis of various animals showed we absolutely needed to in order to eliminate this hazard from the environment. So do we stop removing lead pipes from drinking systems? Is lead impact only worth addressing if related to human activity? F everything else?

I don't know what the end result will become but if data gathered clearly points out what needs to be done next, we as stewards for our wildlife should be able to make the correct decision.

Or just stick your head in sand or other some dark place because the topic is uncomfortable and may or will affect your shooting activity going forward?

 

[Pony Soldier]

Personally I think a major plan for the future should be to abolish the EPA ( also known as the primary lawyer funding agency)

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Personally I think a major plan for the future should be to abolish the EPA ( also known as the primary lawyer funding agency)

I am not a fan either.

 

[ButterBean]

All of this hammer bullets bickering gets old.

I agree 100 percent

 

[Ucsdryder]

I agree 100 percent

As you come here and bicker.

 

[BjornF16]

Wind and solar farms kill more raptors than lead

License to Kill: Wind and Solar Decimate Birds and Bats - IER

According to a study in the Wildlife Society Bulletin, every year 573,000 birds (including 83,000 raptors) and 888,000 bats are…

www.instituteforenergyresearch.org

 

[ButterBean]

Wind and solar farms kill more raptors than lead

License to Kill: Wind and Solar Decimate Birds and Bats - IER

According to a study in the Wildlife Society Bulletin, every year 573,000 birds (including 83,000 raptors) and 888,000 bats are…

www.instituteforenergyresearch.org

We all know that but it has nothing to do with the video

 

[PurpleDriver]

I watched the video all the way through and knowing who Hammer Bullets is, it did appear to be a conflict of interest to me. But to the non-hunter, Hammer is not mentioned in the credits, only Steve as an individual.

There is a very off-putting group over on LRH that will defend Hammer to the grave, but I think this really has more to do with the intent than anything else. If the intent was to promote sales, then this participation by Hammer was in poor taste.

Eagles are a giant success story of the Endangered Species Act and even with lead piosoning and all other causes of death, they are still a growing population. So much so that some experts are wondering if they are nearing the carrying capacity of their habitats. The link below is an arcticle that takes about the boom in growth and also mentions lead poisoning, but does not list it as a major impact.

Bald Eagle, the Ultimate Endangered Species Act Success Story

Bald Eagles were taken off the endangered species list in 2007 after a remarkable recovery. More than a decade later, where does the species stand?

abcbirds.org

Lead vs non-lead debates are senseless in all honesty. There are more animals dieting from habitat loss due to deforestation, new construction, global warming, and the list goes on….

Support what you want. The last thing we should do as hunters is fight internally over this crap.

This video was similar to a political super-pac ad in my opinion. It doesn’t make me want to switch from CE to Hammer for sure.