Large caliber vs. small caliber debate

[HuntHarder]

Trying to wrap my head around all the absolutes that both parties agree on. Are these assumptions correct?

1. Same bullet type (eldm vs eldm), same speed, larger caliber & heavier = larger wound or more trauma
2. Smaller caliber's in conventional cartridges recoil less than larger cartridges
3. Average shooters, shoot lower recoiling rounds more accurate
4. Smaller calibers in conventional cartridges major advantage is spotting your shot and a quicker ability to make a follow up.
5. Bullet construction obviously matters
6. Both will absolutely kill if placed in the correct spot.
7. Larger cartridges will have a longer effective range typically when comparing apples to apples. i.e.( 77tmk out of creedmoor kills further than a 77tmk out of a .223) (300 ultra mag shooting a 225 eld-m vs a 6mm creed shooting a 108 eldm)
8. Average guy will be able to accurately practice more shooting lighter recoiling rounds
9. Ballistic gel is our most accurate medium we have other than actual animals
10. Wind drift using the same High BC bullet (eldm vs eldm) will be less in larger cartridges. Again think 6mm creed shooting a 108 eldm vs a 300 rum shooting a 225 eldm. Probably not really an issue until you get near a cartridges max effective range.
11. Velocity is a better indicator or bullet upset vs. energy. (bullet makers use velocity as minimum to expand vs energy)
12. The same type of bullet (eldm vs eldm) at the same speed will penetrate further typically.

I am sure I missed a few, but do we all mostly agree on those? Again, I am not stating these as 100% facts, just my understanding from multiple different threads. If some of those assumptions are wrong, help me understand why.

 

[WeiserBucks]

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

1. Same bullet, same speed, larger caliber = larger wound or more trauma

Its not the same bullet if its a different caliber even if you're talking the same product line.

10. Wind drift using the same High BC bullet will be less in larger cartridges. Again think 6mm creed shooting a 108 eldm vs a 300 rum shooting a 225 eldm. Probably not really an issue until you get near a cartridges max effective range.

Its not the same bullet if its a different caliber. If shooting two different bullets as mentioned above at the same velocity then the one with the higher BC will have less wind drift. A bullet with a lower BC at a much higher velocity MIGHT have less wind drift purely due to a shorter flight time but generally a higher BC and lower velocity is gonna yield better results in terms of wind drift.

Play around with a ballistic calculator to compare situations as desired.

 

[HuntHarder]

Its not the same bullet if its a different caliber even if you're talking the same product line.

Its not the same bullet if its a different caliber. If shooting two different bullets as mentioned above at the same velocity then the one with the higher BC will have less wind drift. A bullet with a lower BC at a much higher velocity MIGHT have less wind drift purely due to a shorter flight time but generally a higher BC and lower velocity is gonna yield better results in terms of wind drift.

Play around with a ballistic calculator to compare situations as desired.

Thanks. That makes sense. I meant to add heavier to bullet point #1. (edited post 1)

 

[wind gypsy]

3. Average shooters, shoot lower recoiling rounds more accurate

Not just average shooters, all shooters. The debate is in to what extent.

 

[mlevimadden]

12 is also incorrect as shown on hornadys law enforcement site. There are smaller caliber ELDM bullets that penetrate deeper in gel than 30 cal ELDM bullets.

 

[TaperPin]

Trying to wrap my head around all the absolutes that both parties agree on. Are these assumptions correct?

1. Same bullet type (eldm vs eldm), same speed, larger caliber & heavier = larger wound or more trauma
2. Smaller caliber's in conventional cartridges recoil less than larger cartridges
3. Average shooters, shoot lower recoiling rounds more accurate
4. Smaller calibers in conventional cartridges major advantage is spotting your shot and a quicker ability to make a follow up.
5. Bullet construction obviously matters
6. Both will absolutely kill if placed in the correct spot.
7. Larger cartridges will have a longer effective range typically when comparing apples to apples. i.e.( 77tmk out of creedmoor kills further than a 77tmk out of a .223) (300 ultra mag shooting a 225 eld-m vs a 6mm creed shooting a 108 eldm)
8. Average guy will be able to accurately practice more shooting lighter recoiling rounds
9. Ballistic gel is our most accurate medium we have other than actual animals
10. Wind drift using the same High BC bullet (eldm vs eldm) will be less in larger cartridges. Again think 6mm creed shooting a 108 eldm vs a 300 rum shooting a 225 eldm. Probably not really an issue until you get near a cartridges max effective range.
11. Velocity is a better indicator or bullet upset vs. energy. (bullet makers use velocity as minimum to expand vs energy)
12. The same type of bullet (eldm vs eldm) at the same speed will penetrate further typically.

I am sure I missed a few, but do we all mostly agree on those? Again, I am not stating these as 100% facts, just my understanding from multiple different threads. If some of those assumptions are wrong, help me understand why.

Don’t forget the fun factor - plinking with a lighter cartridge is more fun, so it gets shot more often. I think the 7mm in a mag, PRC or AI version is ideal as an accurate hunting round, but I would not want to be stuck plinking or shooting varmints with it as a single gun - that’s just not as much fun.

Many of my shooting friends have a wide variety of rifles to shoot, from big to small, and all of them use smaller rifles for training/plinking/varmints, and larger rounds for hunting. Sometimes a heavy recoiling gun is fun to hunt with because of what it is - if it’s fun to the shooter, it’s fun. Likewise, if someone gets a kick out the ARC cartridges, then more power to them - thinking about ballistic tables it can be easy to lose track of the fun factor.

 

[jimh406]

The comparisons I've seen on Gel Blocks show the penetration is basically identical from the same manufacturer with the same load in both 6.5 CM and .308. One test compared 6.5 CM and 300 Mag and got the similar results.

Obviously, 30 cal will be a bigger hole and heavier bullets generally have more kick, but the bullet makers in a particular bullet seem to be designing for the same amount of penetration irrespective of the caliber. That makes sense to me because why over penetrate if you don't have to.

 

[Quandary]

Not just average shooters, all shooters. The debate is in to what extent.

I am pretty sure I can shoot my 300PRC more accurately than my 22LR on a target 500 yards away.

Just another example that there are few blanket statements.

 

[Skinnyguts]

I am pretty sure I can shoot my 300PRC more accurately than my 22LR on a target 500 yards away.

Just another example that there are few blanket statements.

You are saying you can shoot the rifle that is more accurate, more accurately?
How about your 300PRC vs 22LR @50’? This would apply more to the topic.

 

[hereinaz]

I am pretty sure I can shoot my 300PRC more accurately than my 22LR on a target 500 yards away.

Just another example that there are few blanket statements.

Why did you choose.22lr to compare?

 

[wind gypsy]

I am pretty sure I can shoot my 300PRC more accurately than my 22LR on a target 500 yards away.

Just another example that there are few blanket statements.

The point is that shooters are able to break more mechanically precise shots when there is less energy/momentum/etc moving the rifle at the shot.

 

[ElGuapo]

Not just average shooters, all shooters. The debate is in to what extent.

This is not universally true…. I, personally shoot an Unbraked 300 Magnum, just as well as I shoot my 22-250 or 6.5 PRC. I despise Muzzle brakes. Not everyone has a problem with recoil. I get sick of this debate.

 

[Ryan Avery]

This is not universally true…. I, personally shoot an Unbraked 300 Magnum, just as well as I shoot my 22-250 or 6.5 PRC. I despise Muzzle brakes. Not everyone has a problem with recoil. I get sick of this debate.

I bet you don't

 

[mt100gr.]

...See post #2

 

[ElGuapo]

I bet you don't

With all due respect, that opinion matters not one bit to me. I have piles and piles of dead things that would disagree. This small gun cult on RS is really impressive.

 

[BBob]

Piles and piles of dead things does not prove one can shoot a big magnum as well as a smaller caliber. The term "magnum shots" has existed for a very long time and for good reason. The term magnum shots didn't come from hunters either. Maybe it doesn't matter with ones choice of hunting style though.

 

[ElGuapo]

Piles and piles of dead things does not prove one can shoot a big magnum as well as a smaller caliber. The term "magnum shots" has existed for a very long time and for good reason. The term magnum shots didn't come from hunters either. Maybe it doesn't matter with ones hunting style though.

You’re right…..

 

[grizz19]

The point is that shooters are able to break more mechanically precise shots when there is less energy/momentum/etc moving the rifle at the shot.

This doesn’t exactly makes sense to me. Energy,momentum, etc happens after the shot brakes so should have no effect on the accuracy of the first shot. If I’m not mistaken the bullet will be gone out of the barrel before that takes effect on the shooter. All things being equal with mechanics, and supports when the shot breaks, shots should just be just as accurate with a large caliber as a small caliber. Follow up shot speed and accuracy is where I would see energy and momentum potentially making a difference.

 

[BBob]

If I’m not mistaken the bullet will be gone out of the barrel before that takes effect on the shooter.

That is impossible. The rifle is moving just as soon as the bullet starts moving.