What I do when the receiver is way off, like on this gun, is I start with lapping only the lower halves. I get about halfway there first. Stopping to clean and taking note of the wear pattern often. Once I get to about 50-60% contact on the bottom halves, I then install the top halves and lap to 80-90% contact all around.
Lapping "High end" scope rings?
- Thread starter CampSmith
- Start date
Incorrect. The lower rings are not loose. They are torqued to spec.
As for the quality of the rings, unfortunately, there arent many options for a Ruger, and in my experience, the Leupold rings (these) are much better than the Ruger OEM ones. The Ruger ring mount system certainly lacks precision, but once trued up, it's as strong as anything out there. It's an integral “dovetail” with a recoil lug in each ring.
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BULLBLASTER
Lil-Rokslider
I stand corrected. The way the clamp is rotated makes it look like the rings are not seated. Guess the clamp rotated with torque
wapitibob
WKR
From what I have seen, If you get thru the anodizing on 7075 rings you would likely get some aluminum discoloration/deposits on the tube. You can also get marks from the dissimilar surface finish of lapped rings and the usually satin finish on the tube.
I had good luck doing this on the Ruger rings.
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2020
- Messages
- 1,098
I have a lapping bar set but have not used them
The alignment bars match up perfectly on my Seekins PMR and Sportsmatch rings so I left them alone
The alignment bars match up perfectly on my Seekins PMR and Sportsmatch rings so I left them alone
Great info! I have always been in the same school of thought.
Everything deforms to some degree when you add stress, like tightening bolts. High performance engine blocks have a boring plate torqued onto them before boring the cylinders to simulate the deformation that happens to the block when you torque down the cylinder head. Most commonly its an iron block with aluminum cylinder head/s. Its somewhat counterintuitive to think the aluminum head can cause the block to deform but they absolutely do.
There are far too many different products from different manufacturers with varying tolerances to assume that everything is going to fit perfectly without twisting, warping, or some type of deformation when assembled and torqued, and therefore not need at least a little lapping.
In my particular case, I have a 110 Tactical with an EGW 20MOA rail, Arken Rings, and Bushnell Match Pro scope(rings & scope soon to be replaced). 4 different parts made in 4 different places with at least 4 different sets of tolerances.
There is a tolerance in the 110 receiver shape and where the holes are drilled, there is tolerance in the rail, both as it sits unmounted, and then any deformation that may occur when torquing it onto the action(because of its own tolerances and how those match up against the aforementioned tolerances in the action and screw holes). Then the rings have many tolerances in their construction.
Those tolerances can stack or negate each other, or most likely some combination of stacking and negating. But again to assume that everything lands at a sum of zero is foolish.
Any deformation at the rail is then multiplied by the rings because they are further from the mounting point(so .0005 at the rear point of mounting might be .0015 at the centerline of the rear ring bore, ASSUMING the ring is perfect. Then lets say the rail sits perfectly inline at the front mounting, and assuming the ring is perfect, you have .0015 misalignment between the centerline of the ring bores.
THEN the ring bores might not be perfectly square with the ring mounting, most likely adding even more misalignment OR possibly removing the misalignment but reducing the contact area.
Area 419's method(just an example, others may do the same thing) of boring and honing the bores as a pair HELPS this but you still have the possibility(I would say probability) of mounting those rings on a receiver/rail combo that is less than perfect.
On top of all of that, when lapping, we are assuming that the lapping bar is perfectly straight, perfectly round, exactly the correct diameter, with zero taper. But its far easier to make a perfectly straight, zero taper, 30mm single piece steel bar than perfect scope rings or rail.
Also to be fair, a lapping bar will wear over time(FAR less than the aluminum alloy of the rings, but its still wear) so at some point the lapping bar needs to be replaced.
ALSO alignment bars CAN be misleading. rings could be misaligned and the points still come together(as TaperPin below pointed out, as an extreme example, imagine mounting rings on each end of a banana, the points could come together but obviously the rings arent aligned). If they were doing things right, they would come with a simple piece of flat steel or aluminum(imagine the opposite of an axe blade angle gauge) with the combined angle of the points so that you can make sure the points come together inline and not at an angle.
NONE of this is questioning the quality of the parts used. EVERYTHING has manufacturing tolerances.
There are far too many different products from different manufacturers with varying tolerances to assume that everything is going to fit perfectly without twisting, warping, or some type of deformation when assembled and torqued, and therefore not need at least a little lapping.
In my particular case, I have a 110 Tactical with an EGW 20MOA rail, Arken Rings, and Bushnell Match Pro scope(rings & scope soon to be replaced). 4 different parts made in 4 different places with at least 4 different sets of tolerances.
There is a tolerance in the 110 receiver shape and where the holes are drilled, there is tolerance in the rail, both as it sits unmounted, and then any deformation that may occur when torquing it onto the action(because of its own tolerances and how those match up against the aforementioned tolerances in the action and screw holes). Then the rings have many tolerances in their construction.
Those tolerances can stack or negate each other, or most likely some combination of stacking and negating. But again to assume that everything lands at a sum of zero is foolish.
Any deformation at the rail is then multiplied by the rings because they are further from the mounting point(so .0005 at the rear point of mounting might be .0015 at the centerline of the rear ring bore, ASSUMING the ring is perfect. Then lets say the rail sits perfectly inline at the front mounting, and assuming the ring is perfect, you have .0015 misalignment between the centerline of the ring bores.
THEN the ring bores might not be perfectly square with the ring mounting, most likely adding even more misalignment OR possibly removing the misalignment but reducing the contact area.
Area 419's method(just an example, others may do the same thing) of boring and honing the bores as a pair HELPS this but you still have the possibility(I would say probability) of mounting those rings on a receiver/rail combo that is less than perfect.
On top of all of that, when lapping, we are assuming that the lapping bar is perfectly straight, perfectly round, exactly the correct diameter, with zero taper. But its far easier to make a perfectly straight, zero taper, 30mm single piece steel bar than perfect scope rings or rail.
Also to be fair, a lapping bar will wear over time(FAR less than the aluminum alloy of the rings, but its still wear) so at some point the lapping bar needs to be replaced.
ALSO alignment bars CAN be misleading. rings could be misaligned and the points still come together(as TaperPin below pointed out, as an extreme example, imagine mounting rings on each end of a banana, the points could come together but obviously the rings arent aligned). If they were doing things right, they would come with a simple piece of flat steel or aluminum(imagine the opposite of an axe blade angle gauge) with the combined angle of the points so that you can make sure the points come together inline and not at an angle.
NONE of this is questioning the quality of the parts used. EVERYTHING has manufacturing tolerances.
TaperPin
WKR
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2023
- Messages
- 5,651
They sell a ton of pointed alignment bars, so a lot of guys like them, but if rings were mounted on a banana the points would still align reguardless of what side of the banana it was mounted on.
exactly, thus i want to have mine checked/repointed and possibly have a gauge made.
TaperPin
WKR
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2023
- Messages
- 5,651
Wheeler has convinced folks this is in alignment.
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