"Land Trust" Experiences

[jolemons]

Lot of these big ranches are already federally subsidized via our tax dollars (not a hater of it, it is just how it goes) and often aren’t “scraping by” with the help of land trust they are just further monetizing hunting forcing more people into less area and creating a European style of aristocratic/ pay to play hunting. It’s private so they can do as they please. But let’s not pretend that they will all go under and turn into urban sprawl

What subsidy are cattle ranchers getting that you're referring to? I have managed ranches small and large and am very familiar with the economics of cattle ranching. While there are consistently profitable operations out there, they are the exception. Those that are able to leverage opportunities such as hunting, energy development and recreation are usually the ones that are economically sustainable.

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[jolemons]

Any developer that buys the ranch I am talking about to try and turn it into the next Yellowstone Club is dumber than anyone that pays 6500 bucks to hunt the property. Its ranch land and its the only thing its good for.

Companies like Landtrust are going to continue to search out people and convince them to do it. Many of the ranchers in this area would have zero idea you could even do this but when someone tells them they can, they will. Like I said, it just sucks.

I get it, but if I were in their shoes, I'd probably do the same thing. I lease rights to an outfitter for exclusive access to the ranch I manage , I primarily hunt public land.

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[Hnthrdr]

What subsidy are cattle ranchers getting that you're referring to? I have managed ranches small and large and am very familiar with the economics of cattle ranching. While there are consistently profitable operations out there, they are the exception. Those that are able to leverage opportunities such as hunting, energy development and recreation are usually the ones that are economically sustainable.

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Grazing on public comes to mind as a pretty sweet subsidy. I’ll talk to gramps and pick his brain a bit. Both sides of my in laws ranch in AZ, on has been doing it since 1870’s they are definitely not rich but still have a good chunk started with 10 sections and down to 1.5, but thats more from poor business decisions and relatives selling out than just not being able to afford to keep it. I get this is another option for them. I think it’s a really bad deal for the future of hunting in the US. I do know that my other side that has cattle also owns and operates a construction company and ranches are like gods gift to businessmen, everything is run through the ranch and gets written off…

 

[hunterjmj]

I've noticed some of the local ranches are on land trust now but wouldn't allow hunting before. It's possible this gives them more control and they make some money. I don't know much about it but I assume liability waivers are signed. Some ranchers we know are blocking a few days for me but I'm not paying. They do the land trust thing but still allow a few friends and family to hunt. We help brand, feed in the winter and some other things so it works out.

 

[jolemons]

Grazing on public comes to mind as a pretty sweet subsidy. I’ll talk to gramps and pick his brain a bit. Both sides of my in laws ranch in AZ, on has been doing it since 1870’s they are definitely not rich but still have a good chunk started with 10 sections and down to 1.5, but thats more from poor business decisions and relatives selling out than just not being able to afford to keep it. I get this is another option for them. I think it’s a really bad deal for the future of hunting in the US. I do know that my other side that has cattle also owns and operates a construction company and ranches are like gods gift to businessmen, everything is run through the ranch and gets written off…

Grazing permits can be a good deal. About 2% of the US cattle population grazes public land, so that's not a benefit most ranchers have. My point is, it's a tough business, most breakeven or lose money. Ranchers support the bulk of western big game populations, especially seasonally, and are vital to preserving sustainable populations that we can hunt. The argument against ranchers charging for access to their land is misguided. If you want healthy habitat and wildlife, you need ranchers, to have ranchers, they need to be financially sustainable. Paying for access is one way they can improve their bottom line. There is more nuance to the discussion than is appropriate for this format, liability, cost of wildlife damsges, etc. but I hope I made a point. There are some NGOs and Agencies experimenting with habitat leasing arrangement, which could also help ease the financial burden, especially if the landowner is incentivized through hunting access.

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[Jon Boy]

Man I don't see what the big deal is. Majority of the ranchers by far allow no hunting. For the ones that don't outfit this allows a small income stream with out dealing with the absolute shit show that is the Block Management program in Montana. I haven't caught wind of any ranches pulling out of the block program and enrolling in land trust or similar. For the record, I havent used land trust, or block management, in years or ever. People are worried about these private lands turning into the european model. News flash, theyve been that way for years. If there is good consistent big game hunting on it, its outfitted or leased.

 

[Jon Boy]

I just hopped on to see if there were any places I could shoot whitetail does on and have a good experience with my nephew. That definitely seems to be a possibility for a few hundred bucks or less. The alternative is to take him to a HEAVILY hunted piece of state or block management and have a piss pour excuse of a hunt, even if successful. The ranch I have had permission in the past is now only allowing doe hunts on the last weekend and its a free for all as far as who and how many people participate. No thanks.