Kyrgyzstan Ibex Permits

[buzzy]

Does anyone know what might be going on with the export permits for ibex out of Kyrgyzstan back to the US? Hunted there back in October, and we were not able to bring our trophies home as nobody was in the government to sign off on the permits. The outfitter thought he would be getting the permits by January, but there still seems to be some type of holdup. Only thing I’m getting is that they’re working on it and the government hasn’t issued the permits. Just curious if anyone knows what might be going on. Thanks.

 

[SagehunterD]

Would love to know this as well. I’m headed back in October this year (pending the gov doesn’t shut it down) and wanna make sure there isn’t any issues.

 

[KUDU1]

Was looking into this hunt... Who was your outfitter? the few i have talked to made no mention of this issue... thanks

 

[buzzy]

I went with Global Safari Azerbaijan. The hunt was great but I have found multiple other hunters that were there at the same time and couldn’t get permits while some did. All with different outfits so something was up with getting the permits completed and it seems like it’s still an issue.

 

[Starbailey]

I hunted Kyrg for ibex and argali nov 2022. Outfitter just had cities to ship the ibex and wolf to the states this month but it doesnt look good for the argali. US F&G has not issued ANY argali permits (Tygik, Kyrg, Mongolia) in the last 2 years and word is none will be issued for the near future.

 

[Short Track]

Do you feel they are limiting trophy hunters from enjoying their hobby ?

 

[Starbailey]

Do you feel they are limiting trophy hunters from enjoying their hobby ?

I do feel it is totally political.

 

[ElGuapo]

US Fish and Wildlife is an Anti-hunting organization

 

[TMA805]

I had heard about the permit issues for argali in Kyrg & Taj, but wasn't aware or sure about Mongolia. This changes some of my thinking for Gobi 2024. @Starbailey - info your receiving, that from trophy exporter/US importer and or from also your outfitter? Any insight re Mongolia appreciated, as I was intending to sign contract for Gobi argali very soon. thanks.

 

[Cynoscion]

I hunted ibex in Kyrgyzstan in August 2022 and have yet to get my goat back. I’ve pretty much decided it’s not going to happen at this point so I was fixing to start planning an Altai ibex hunt in Mongolia. If there are problems there also, I’m not sure where I’d go next.

 

[mitschkeb]

I hunted Kyrgyzstan in August 2022 and we received our goats in December. From my understanding the outfitter is supposed to have permits before the hunt.

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[Starbailey]

I had heard about the permit issues for argali in Kyrg & Taj, but wasn't aware or sure about Mongolia. This changes some of my thinking for Gobi 2024. @Starbailey - info your receiving, that from trophy exporter/US importer and or from also your outfitter? Any insight re Mongolia appreciated, as I was intending to sign contract for Gobi argali very soon. thanks.

That info is from our booking agent, local outfitter, and importer. I have been along on argali hunts in 2021 & 22 and all are still in Mongolia including 6-10 more hunted through the same booking company.

 

[TMA805]

Thank you for the reply. Sending PM

 

[OMB]

I do feel it is totally political.

I know somebody headed to Mongolia that dug into this extensively recently, but the gist of it is that SCI or somebody associated with/huge donor of SCI sued for importation of some obscure African species, got tangled up in the courts and won. Now USFWS used that to trigger a review on a lot of things, and it's why you see SCI being fairly quiet on the issue (to the point where their legal team won't give you this part of the story). Sort of, "they won, but at what cost?" Imports will resume at some point, and the front line USFWS people will hint that they don't agree with it, but it's definitely political because somebody tried to buck the system.

With the rise in popularity of Asian mountain hunting for Americans, I've been sort of shocked this information hasn't gotten out there yet. There's been chatter in facebook groups for months of guys having their trophies shipped to Canada for taxidermy work until the USFWS permit clears.

 

[realunlucky]

I know somebody headed to Mongolia that dug into this extensively recently, but the gist of it is that SCI or somebody associated with/huge donor of SCI sued for importation of some obscure African species, got tangled up in the courts and won. Now USFWS used that to trigger a review on a lot of things, and it's why you see SCI being fairly quiet on the issue (to the point where their legal team won't give you this part of the story). Sort of, "they won, but at what cost?" Imports will resume at some point, and the front line USFWS people will hint that they don't agree with it, but it's definitely political because somebody tried to buck the system.

With the rise in popularity of Asian mountain hunting for Americans, I've been sort of shocked this information hasn't gotten out there yet. There's been chatter in facebook groups for months of guys having their trophies shipped to Canada for taxidermy work until the USFWS permit clears.

This is a giant bag shit to throw around with out any proof

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[OMB]

This is a giant bag shit to throw around with out any proof

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There's literally an entire page article in the last WSF magazine that alludes to all of this.

"USFWS has gone from doing country-wide assessments, to issue case by case permits due to a particular legal case. That caused a major slowdown and has been part of the current situation."

Page 90, Basecamp Dispatches by Chester Moore.

And there's a ton of information out there about importation of bontebok from Africa being a huge precursor to this problem.

But yeah, giant bag of shit.

 

[DEEF]

This is a giant bag shit to throw around with out any proof

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Hey Super Moderator,

Perhaps a request for source information and contributing any particular clarity of knowledge is a better precursor for discussion than a bagoshit frame.

Perceived issues and Actual Issues are always nice to clarify even if one's bullshit meter is throttled.

In regard to case by case issues vs "country wide assessments" I found some clarity in this article: https://safariclub.org/u-s-hunters-report-delays-of-lawful-trophy-imports/

Knowledge of the law and "noticing" by certified mail to regulating authorities prior to interaction and during interaction is a great principle to consider attaining one's importation objective. Unfortunately, lawyers do lawyer things and a notice might provide an attentive provoking bypass away from any political and economic parasites looking to contaminate one's harvest attainment. Additionally, a notice would provide a good record if one needed to pursue judgement against anyone who is doing harm and/or obstructing commerce.

Unfortunately, the stability of good will and a man's word have become so entangled with admiralty and commercial law that a little law knowledge and action is becoming more of a necessity.

Kind Regards,


Dustin

 

[Cynoscion]

FWIW I’m almost a year post Kyrgyzstan ibex hunt and still don’t have my goat back. At this point, I’m doubtful I ever will. It stinks but if you hunt overseas, you know that it’s always a possibility.

 

[DEEF]

Sorry to hear brother. I do encourage you to send a notice via certified mail to the particular agent/entity holding your property. The article above has a starting reference to a UCC law governing their duties and obligations. All experiences are there to learn from to the extent that one pursues.

Nonetheless, no one can withhold your memories, unless you allow their "smart" technologies to be implanted in your body

Congrats on a great hunt and awesome experience. Rad picture.

 

[buzzy]

FWIW I’m almost a year post Kyrgyzstan ibex hunt and still don’t have my goat back. At this point, I’m doubtful I ever will. It stinks but if you hunt overseas, you know that it’s always a possibility.

Seems like it could be more on the outfitter side. Hunted there in 22 and got my goat back in early April. Met another guy on here who went a month before me and got his about the same time as me. So goats are getting out but from communications with my contacts in Kyrg it was more that the outfitter was slow in getting the paperwork. At least that was my interpretation of the slowdown on their side.