KUIU Pro 3600 or MR Metcalf?

[Grell1591]

Hey everyone,
New user here and trying to get myself approved for PM's as I plan my 2023 Colorado backpack elk trip!

I currently have a SITKA Bivy 30 pack that is great for a day pack but once I loaded it down with 50lbs and took a 3 mile hike it was pretty uncomfortable. It just doesn't feel right in terms of size and load hauling capability.

Also looking for something a little larger as we plan to hunt 3-4 days at a time out there if we get into the elk, otherwise staying mobile and moving daily if sign is old.



Now down to the nitty gritty.
-Kuiu is running a special on their PRO pack system and I can pick one up for $390.... Seems to be a good deal
-I can also find a MR Metcalf for the same price right now

I know there are better options (Exo, Kifaru, SG) but I really don't want to spend over $400 if possible as there is a bunch of other gear I need yet and I may only get to elk hunt 3-4x in my lifetime.



What would be my best bet in terms of bang for my buck? Not sure if some brand of packs are better for certain body types (I am 6'2" and 185lbs)

So far my pro's/con's are below

Kuiu Pro 3600
Pro's
-lighter weight at high 4lb weight
-super adjustable shoulder straps & lumbar support
-lumbar has grippy material to if for less slippage
-more zippers for organization
-appreciate the separated back panels that should allow for more airflow/breathability

Cons
-Reports of frames breaking on older models
-Most hunters have given negative feedback on not just packs but company as a whole


MR Metcalf
Pro's
-Tried and tested, super good reviews around the board
-Good track record for hauling heavy loads
-Little larger at 4,200cu/in
-Everyone says they are very comfortable packs

Cons
-Heavier weighing in at mid 5lbs
-Pads seems like they have no channels to gain airflow, my assumption is this pack gets hot and sweaty?
-Some users experience belt slippage issues (not sure if user error, miscalculated sizing or body type)



Keep in mind I live in southern WI and do not have access to many western/hiking stores to just go try these on and see what fits me.


Also, from my list do you believe I should buy one of the above new or try to hold out and hope a used EXO shows up on the classifieds?
I have a couple months to play with but certainly want to get a new pack relatively soon so I can keep conditioning my body. I've also noticed the top notch bag companies don't go up for sale often....


Any help would be appreciated, Thanks!

 

[prm]

I have the Kuiu 3600 and believe it would do what you want. You will need to have a fairly refined pack list and a camp bag loaded between bag and frame to get 3-4 days worth of gear.

I have not used a Metcalf to offer any comparison.

 

[manitou1]

I sold my metcalf and bought the Kuiu Pro in both the 3600 and the 6000.
The metcalf never fit me well but was a well made pack. I am sure it does great for others.
The Kuiu pro packs fit me like a glove and are way more comfortable. I find that I use the 3600 way more but can see using the 6000 for extended back country hunts if I ever do one that requires more gear.
I can fit a lot of gear into/onto the 3600. It carries nice for me and I really like this pack.
There are some negative reviews of the older Kuiu packs but the Kuiu Pros are a whole different animal.

 

[Drenalin]

Fit is the most important factor; unfortunately the only way to know is to try different frames. Fortunately, you can order either or both, try it in your house, and return what doesn't work. You'll eat some shipping cost, but you'll have your answer.

The Metcalf is plenty big for 3-4 days. I didn't care for MR's lid at all, nor the way it rode on the bag. But if the frame had fit me, the bag would have worked fine. Unfortunately, I didn't find the fit comfortable at all, regardless of how much weight was on it. I wouldn't worry about any measures they didn't take for air flow; all packs are hot and sweaty in the right conditions and most efforts to mitigate that are gimmicky and ineffective.

I'm trying a Kuiu again after a terrible experience with the latest generation stuff last year. It's still not my favorite, but I can see it working well if it fits you well. The grippy material on the lumbar pad (and shoulder straps) is actually kind of annoying for me, but not as much as the lumbar pad itself. Like a lot of pack makers, instead of figuring out how to put that portion of the pack together correctly, they just overbuild the crap out of the pad. For me, that leads to lumbar pressure. I can mitigate it for light loads, but not for heavy. Depending on your shoulder width, those back panels may or may not be separated - their position is adjustable. Kuiu's bags are really nice, regardless of the organization. Zipper and strap layout is good, and I like the front pocket on the Pro LT series. The lid sucks. Kuiu's packs get a bad wrap, and frankly they are much better clothing company than pack company, but their latest stuff at least includes some intelligent design. I personally feel like they're a little more refined than MR.

Seek Outside works best for me, followed by Exo. An integrated Seek Outside pack, used, might fit your budget and is a great great option. If you can hold off just a little longer, there will be more packs popping up in the classifieds the next couple of months as hunting seasons end and people move on to new stuff. Worst case, you hold out for a Black Friday deal on something new.

 

[Grell1591]

Good stuff to think about on the replies!

I have very broad shoulders so I assume I will need the back pieces separated but I totally see how every pack will get hot. Thats not a deal breaker for me, just something I was curious about.

Surprised to hear the bag may not be big enough though. It might be worth mentioning that I'm going with a hunting partner so we will be sharing the camp load. But that will be pretty minimal, currently looking at a SO Radcliff which is sub 5lbs and collapses well.


In the event the pack is too small.. is it better to buy additional attachment bags or just go for the next size bigger?

Also with Kuiu running the 30% off pro bags I will need to make a decision soon if I want to try and snag one or wait until some good used bags hit the classifieds

 

[Drenalin]

I have very broad shoulders so I assume I will need the back pieces separated but I totally see how every pack will get hot. Thats not a deal breaker for me, just something I was curious about.

The shoulder harness attaches to the frame panel with vertical velcro strips, so for wide shoulders you'll angle them out. So they get farther apart at the top, but tighter together at the bottom.

Surprised to hear the bag may not be big enough though. It might be worth mentioning that I'm going with a hunting partner so we will be sharing the camp load. But that will be pretty minimal, currently looking at a SO Radcliff which is sub 5lbs and collapses well.

I'm pretty lightweight on gear, but for more than a couple days I want 4000 cubes or more.

In the event the pack is too small.. is it better to buy additional attachment bags or just go for the next size bigger?

IME, attaching stuff to the outside or starting off with stuff in the meat shelf sucks. Bigger bag for me. Kuiu, Exo, and Seek Outside all compress down nicely when the space isn't needed.

 

[GunsAreFun]

I have the Kuiu 3600 and believe it would do what you want. You will need to have a fairly refined pack list and a camp bag loaded between bag and frame to get 3-4 days worth of gear.

I have not used a Metcalf to offer any comparison.

I have a KUIU Pro 3600 and 4000LT and an Exo K2 3500 with K3 belt. I actually ended up using the KUIU on my archery elk trip this year. The adjustable lumbar pad just made it fit better with my 45# training weight.

No personal experience with the Metcalf to compare other than Ives considered them in the past before buying KUIU.

As previously mentioned, 3600 cu in capacity would require being very dialed in with gear to fit everything in main pack. My gear is well dialed in IMHO, and I have little to no room to spare in the 4000 for a 3.5 day trip in September. Would recommend the 4000 or 5500 LT models. The LT still appears to be very durable, despite its lighter weight. You can always take the lid off the 5500 if you’re an ounce counter and don’t need the space.

 

[GunsAreFun]

The 5500 LT does have a quirk in that there is no water bladder pocket. Don’t really know what the designers were thinking there.

What I ended up doing…since I already had the 4000…was buy the 400 cu in accessory pouch that clips on the bag. Haven’t used it yet, but if I ever need more capacity to bring extra food or something, that’s what I’ll use.

 

[ghostrider272]

Can't speak to the Metcalf bag, but I do have an MR Pintler with the Guidelight MT frame. Also have a KUIU 4000LT and an EXO K3. Of the three, the MR frame is the least comfortable for my body, not that it is uncomfortable. The other two just fit better with heavier loads. I keep it around for light hikes as the Pintler bag is pretty well designed.

Had a KUIU 3600 bag and got rid of it and replaced it with the 4000LT. The nice feature of the KUIU is once you have the frame set up for your body, you can change out to any bag in their system. MR only offers the Pintler and Beartooth (IIRC) as different bag swaps.

As I head into hunting season I'll be using either the KUIU or EXO

 

[Grell1591]

Good stuff! Nice to hear some positive reviews on the KUIU bags.... everything I was finding online seemed to be a lot of hate. But then again people are more likely to get online and trash a brand.

I by no means am an expert at refining my elk gear. I have only make the trip once before so the fear factor will likely make me bring extra gear if anything.

Do you guys like the LT bags? Should I really be looking at a 4000LT or just make the jump to a 6000 and enjoy all the extra storage compartments?

I really don't expect to spend more than 3 days in the field at a time but might try to pack for 4 days and only stay 2-3, trying to stay mobile but also stretch out that extra day if we are in the elk.

Thanks again to everyone throwing in your insight!

 

[prm]

Surprised to hear the bag may not be big enough though. It might be worth mentioning that I'm going with a hunting partner so we will be sharing the camp load. But that will be pretty minimal, currently looking at a SO Radcliff which is sub 5lbs and collapses well.


In the event the pack is too small.. is it better to buy additional attachment bags or just go for the next size bigger?

Lay out all you stuff and you'll see. I don't see getting 4 days of stuff in any 3600 bag.

Easy enough to add a bag on the load shelf area. I use a 55L Outdoor Research dry sack or an Eberlestock Spike Camp Duffel. Both work great as a bag on a load shelf. All my camp gear and food goes in there and all my day hunting gear goes in the pack. Once I hike into camp site I pull the bag, cinch it all back down and I'm ready to hunt.

 

[Grell1591]

Gotcha, I think hardest part is already having a small pack and not seeing them in person. Hard to tell how much they hold without it being in my hands

 

[GunsAreFun]

Get the LT 5500 or whatever the non LT bag size is, but IMO, the weight savings of the LTs is significant considering they cost no more and are still very durable.

 

[Colobwhntr]

I own the 6000 and for 3-4 days it would be perfect but any smaller bag and your going to be wishing you had more space. My son just got the 6000 pro for like 450$ with the sale. You’ll be thankful you got a bigger bag and it cinches down very nice for day hunts also. Most comfortable pack I’ve ever used for carrying heavy loads.

 

[Deanblitzer]

I have a MR Beartooth 80 and have a Kuiu LT5500 being delivered tomorrow to compare. I know it’ll be significantly lighter but hopefully will be comfortable. With the 30% sale it was significantly cheaper than alternatives so if it’s close in comfort then it’s a win in my book

 

[Grell1591]

Awesome,

I made my decision and went with the kuiu 5500LT. Looks like we will playing with the same new toys here soon Dean!

Should be leaps and bounds above the pack I have now!

 

[willtim]

Preface by saying I'm not a brand homer. However, I just returned from a five day hunt and eveyrthing Kuiu performed flawlessly. But, in a pack, get what fits you.

 

[Outwest]

Awesome,

I made my decision and went with the kuiu 5500LT. Looks like we will playing with the same new toys here soon Dean!

Should be leaps and bounds above the pack I have now!

You won't be disappointed. For what you have planned, the lt5500 will do just fine. I have been using the pro harness and pack bags since Jan '20. I think I have tried everything except for the largest LT and Pro bags. The ones that stuck around are the pro 6000 for backpacking and the lt4000 for day hunts or 1-3 day quick trips with minimal optics.

I had similar worries about the "dainty" carbon frame but I have been extremely surprised. Just a few weeks ago I was putting an elk hindquarter on the load shelf and without thinking I slammed the quarter on the frame. I heard a crunchy noise and was worried I'd cracked the carbon frame on a rock with the weight. The frame got a small scratch but no crack. I just don't worry about it anymore.

I don't have a number of animals packed right off the top of my head but that pack/suspension/frame has seen some serious use with no real issues. I did have one of the hipbelt frame sheets rub through the cordura on my original pack but Kuiu warrantied it no questions asked. It was still totally usable and in fact I packed out 2 more bulls with it after I noticed. The second hipbelt has shown no signs of wear like the first one did so probably a small defect.

I also used the MR Metcalf for a few seasons and I much prefer the Kuiu layout, modularity, weight and comfort over the MR.

 

[GunsAreFun]

You won't be disappointed. For what you have planned, the lt5500 will do just fine. I have been using the pro harness and pack bags since Jan '20. I think I have tried everything except for the largest LT and Pro bags. The ones that stuck around are the pro 6000 for backpacking and the lt4000 for day hunts or 1-3 day quick trips with minimal optics.

I had similar worries about the "dainty" carbon frame but I have been extremely surprised. Just a few weeks ago I was putting an elk hindquarter on the load shelf and without thinking I slammed the quarter on the frame. I heard a crunchy noise and was worried I'd cracked the carbon frame on a rock with the weight. The frame got a small scratch but no crack. I just don't worry about it anymore.

I don't have a number of animals packed right off the top of my head but that pack/suspension/frame has seen some serious use with no real issues. I did have one of the hipbelt frame sheets rub through the cordura on my original pack but Kuiu warrantied it no questions asked. It was still totally usable and in fact I packed out 2 more bulls with it after I noticed. The second hipbelt has shown no signs of wear like the first one did so probably a small defect.

I also used the MR Metcalf for a few seasons and I much prefer the Kuiu layout, modularity, weight and comfort over the MR.

Do you just use the bag to hold the meat down? That’s what I did carrying a hind quarter out for a friend this year, but am accustomed to the DO design that has two straps on the frame dedicated to cinching down the meat in addition to the bag.

 

[Outwest]

Do you just use the bag to hold the meat down? That’s what I did carrying a hind quarter out for a friend this year, but am accustomed to the DO design that has two straps on the frame dedicated to cinching down the meat in addition to the bag.

Yes, the bag is what acts as the cradle or meat diaper with the kuiu packs. I usually try to leave the small clip at the bottom of the bag attached to the loop at the bottom of the frame/hip belt to make sure the meat stays up above my belt line.