Knight Ultralite 50 caliber

[Elkaddict]

New to forum and have read many posts. Recently purchased Knight Ultralite 50 caliber for elk hunting in Idaho. I have followed numerous posts by sabotloader and am still trying to determine proper load to start with. I would like to stick with Pyrodex RS select for my powder and was leaning towards the 90-100 grain by volume charge. I will be using musket caps and sticking with lead based conicals per Idaho rules. Based on reading posts I am leaning towards either Bullshop Conical in 400 or 460 grain or No Excuses in 420 or 460 grain- .503 size. I know sabotloader was leaning more towards the Bullshop 400 over the 460 in one post but wondering if that is still true? My questions are as follows:
1. Any recommendations regarding the bullet choices I mentioned above and much variance in the 400 to 460 grain weight range- pros/cons of each for elk knockdown/accuracy/velocity
2. I have read that a wad will help and also that it is not needed? Which is true given I would be using Pyrodex RS?
3. I plan to shoot two shots at range followed by a barrel swab then 2 more shots...etc...does this seem reasonable for accuracy/loading?
4. Any other suggestions outside of eventually upgrading the sights?
Thank you!

 

[dieselchessy]

Lots to unpack there.
I’ll start with, none of it matters. All combo’s mentioned will kill elk out past 100 yards if you can place the bullet. 175 grain patched round balls kill elk just fine, a 400+ grain conical will get the job done.

400 would shoot a little flatter with maybe noticeably less recoil.
460 would be a bit slower, drop faster, and maybe you’ll notice more recoil.
The differences are minimal.

Around 100 grains powder is fine. You’ll want to test and see what you and your rifle like.

RS is decent powder. I prefer 777, but killed several elk with RS before 777 hit the market. RS will serve you well.

Basically, buy some stuff, go shoot, see what you and your rifle like, and have fun. Don’t overthink it.

 

[sneaky]

@sabotloader paging Mr Muzzleloader lol

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[Elkaddict]

Lots to unpack there.
I’ll start with, none of it matters. All combo’s mentioned will kill elk out past 100 yards if you can place the bullet. 175 grain patched round balls kill elk just fine, a 400+ grain conical will get the job done.

400 would shoot a little flatter with maybe noticeably less recoil.
460 would be a bit slower, drop faster, and maybe you’ll notice more recoil.
The differences are minimal.

Around 100 grains powder is fine. You’ll want to test and see what you and your rifle like.

RS is decent powder. I prefer 777, but killed several elk with RS before 777 hit the market. RS will serve you well.

Basically, buy some stuff, go shoot, see what you and your rifle like, and have fun. Don’t overthink it.

Thanks dieselchessy. You are correct that I do have the ability to overthink things and I agree that time at the range is the most important. I have focused on archery and rifle over the years as I did not grow up hunting with a muzzleloader. I have dabbled with a muzzleloader a little bit (TC black diamond XR with 370 grain maxiball) but just decided to get serious about it for this next season. Just trying to do my research for a basis and get a good starting point before heading to the range- hoping this might improve my efficiency at the range, find a very capable ethical elk load, and perhaps save a little money while at it. Did you have any advice on the necessity of a wad or not with conicals/pyrodex mentioned above or just test at the range?

 

[WA209]

 

[dieselchessy]

Advice about cards/wads…..

With a flat based bullet they may help. It’s probably rifle, powder charge, bullet dependent.
I use/have used them, under the No excuses bullets. I currently shoot the 420 in .504 size. (.503 is the more often cited best fit for Knight rifles, but I prefer the .504 in mine. .503 would do you fine. They sell sizing test packs though).
I’ve used 3 or so brands of wads in my 50. All of .54 cal size. Ox-yoke is a common choice. They are thick, fuzzy and lubed. Muzzleloader originals are similar but much thinner. Both good options to try.
They aren’t required by any means.

I also like the Hornady Great Plains 385 conicals. They have a cupped base that opens under pressure to seal the barrel. Might be a cheaper option.

I think one of the best money saving moves is to practice lots with patched round balls. Once you’ve settled on your conical hunting load then switch to patched round balls and find a charge that results in the same 100 yard point of impact. It’s probably in the 60 to 70 grain charge range. Then practice with that. It cheaper and much less recoil. Makes shooting fun.

Then before any hunting play a little with your hunting load.

I shoot 100 to 110 grain charges. Anything in the 90 to 110 range should be good for elk. (Warning 110 is above Hodgdon recommendation)

Below link is the Hodgdon load data. I’ve found it to be pretty accurate.
Note at the top of the page their comment about wads and conicals.

https://hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/muzzleloading_manual_2008.pdf

 

[Elkaddict]

Advice about cards/wads…..

With a flat based bullet they may help. It’s probably rifle, powder charge, bullet dependent.
I use/have used them, under the No excuses bullets. I currently shoot the 420 in .504 size. (.503 is the more often cited best fit for Knight rifles, but I prefer the .504 in mine. .503 would do you fine. They sell sizing test packs though).
I’ve used 3 or so brands of wads in my 50. All of .54 cal size. Ox-yoke is a common choice. They are thick, fuzzy and lubed. Muzzleloader originals are similar but much thinner. Both good options to try.
They aren’t required by any means.

I also like the Hornady Great Plains 385 conicals. They have a cupped base that opens under pressure to seal the barrel. Might be a cheaper option.

I think one of the best money saving moves is to practice lots with patched round balls. Once you’ve settled on your conical hunting load then switch to patched round balls and find a charge that results in the same 100 yard point of impact. It’s probably in the 60 to 70 grain charge range. Then practice with that. It cheaper and much less recoil. Makes shooting fun.

Then before any hunting play a little with your hunting load.

I shoot 100 to 110 grain charges. Anything in the 90 to 110 range should be good for elk. (Warning 110 is above Hodgdon recommendation)

Below link is the Hodgdon load data. I’ve found it to be pretty accurate.
Note at the top of the page their comment about wads and conicals.

https://hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/muzzleloading_manual_2008.pdf

Very good, thank you for this info!

 

[ElDiablito]

Pretty good advice so far. Any of those NE or Bullshop bullets will be great for elk. You’ll just have to shoot them and see which size and weight your rifle likes. A wad will likely help. I believe those .50 Knights have a 1:28 twist barrel, so I suspect you’ll have the best luck with a (shorter) bullet up to about 420 gr.

I’m curious, why are you planning on Pyrodex and musket caps?

 

[Elkaddict]

Thank you for information. I will likely try the 400 bullshop or 420 no excuse conical. Primary reason for the Pyrodex/musket cap is because it is what I have and have used in the past. We are somewhat limited in Idaho and must use musket cap or percussion 11. I always liked the increased fire from a musket cap as well as easier to work with/grasp. I have wondered if the #11 has a better chance with waterproofing though. I am fairly inexperienced and have read most people preferring Triple 7 for my set up (cleanliness/velocity). I may have been slightly scared off by the "crud ring" that people speak of with the Triple 7 and thought the "dirty" Pyrodex may have a lesser chance of requiring a wad/subbase. Please fill me in on your preference that would also be legal in my state. Thanks!

 

[ElDiablito]

Musket caps are fine - easier to handle perhaps (although if you’re using a straight line capper, #11s are no problem. And, as you say I think you can’t beat a #11 (with a tight nipple) for weather resistance. More flame? Negligible difference I think.

I’ve used black, Pyrodex, 777, several pellets, Blackhorn and smokeless in my muzzys for about 35 years. I still shoot all of the above except Pyrodex and pellets. Pyrodex is my least favorite of all the choices - smoky, dirty, lower energy and corrosive. It’s cheap - that’s it’s only advantage these days. I wouldn’t hesitate to use 777. It’s by far the best choice unless you’re using BH209. I get no crud ring in my White muzzleloaders with #11 caps. If you use 209s, you will get a crud ring but I’d still rather deal with that (brush or spit patch between shots) than use Pyrodex. The crud ring is a product of 777 and a hotter 209 combustion. So if you use it, you’re better off with a lower-powered “muzzy” 209 or caps.

The good news is 777 and Pyrodex are cheap and readily available - go get some 777 and compare it to Pyrodex and see which works better for you.

 

[Elkaddict]

Musket caps are fine - easier to handle perhaps (although if you’re using a straight line capper, #11s are no problem. And, as you say I think you can’t beat a #11 (with a tight nipple) for weather resistance. More flame? Negligible difference I think.

I’ve used black, Pyrodex, 777, several pellets, Blackhorn and smokeless in my muzzys for about 35 years. I still shoot all of the above except Pyrodex and pellets. Pyrodex is my least favorite of all the choices - smoky, dirty, lower energy and corrosive. It’s cheap - that’s it’s only advantage these days. I wouldn’t hesitate to use 777. It’s by far the best choice unless you’re using BH209. I get no crud ring in my White muzzleloaders with #11 caps. If you use 209s, you will get a crud ring but I’d still rather deal with that (brush or spit patch between shots) than use Pyrodex. The crud ring is a product of 777 and a hotter 209 combustion. So if you use it, you’re better off with a lower-powered “muzzy” 209 or caps.

The good news is 777 and Pyrodex are cheap and readily available - go get some 777 and compare it to Pyrodex and see which works better for you.

Greatly appreciate your feedback. I will try out the 777 loose and #11. Do u have a favorite #11 percussion cap and nipple? Thank you.

 

[BRTreedogs]

Mine does not like 100 grn charges, less accurate.
Mine did not like 777
I shoot the regular yellow label pyrodex.

420 no excuses .503 over 90 grn pyrodex rws musket cap.
It shot about 1.5" at 100 with scope. 2.5 open sights.
5" high at 100 for a 150 yard zero.
Can hit a 12"plate every time at 150 and 80% at 200 holding 10" over

Rock um socked a big cow at 149 freehand.

I wouldn't hesitate to shoot this load as far as I thought I could get it in the vitals.

 

[ElDiablito]

I use Treso Ampco or HotShot nipples and CCI mag #11 or RWS 1075+ caps. The Treso nipples have a tight flash hole so I drill them out to .0310 for use with 777.

If you need to tweak the Tresos for your caps:

 

[WeiserBucks]

I wouldn't hesitate to shit this load as far as I thought I could get it in the vitals.

This inspires a lot of confidence.

 

[BRTreedogs]

This inspires a lot of confidence.

Haha apparently my phone knows what I say more

 

[Elkaddict]

Mine does not like 100 grn charges, less accurate.
Mine did not like 777
I shoot the regular yellow label pyrodex.

420 no excuses .503 over 90 grn pyrodex rws musket cap.
It shot about 1.5" at 100 with scope. 2.5 open sights.
5" high at 100 for a 150 yard zero.
Can hit a 12"plate every time at 150 and 80% at 200 holding 10" over

Rock um socked a big cow at 149 freehand.

I wouldn't hesitate to shoot this load as far as I thought I could get it in the vitals.

Sounds about what I was originally planning to try. Thank you for this and nice bull picture. Hoping I can shoot that well someday. Where is your shot hitting at 50 yards with this 150 yard zero? Thank you

 

[Elkaddict]

I use Treso Ampco or HotShot nipples and CCI mag #11 or RWS 1075+ caps. The Treso nipples have a tight flash hole so I drill them out to .0310 for use with 777.

If you need to tweak the Tresos for your caps:

Thank you

 

[Wrench]

Here's a copy of my dope that I've proven with my knight using 495gr no excuses over a wad and 85gr 777 3f.

 

[BRTreedogs]

Sounds about what I was originally planning to try. Thank you for this and nice bull picture. Hoping I can shoot that well someday. Where is your shot hitting at 50 yards with this 150 yard zero? Thank you

I'm not sure.
Just hold down on the heart.
Muzzleloader is a late season gig for me.
Getting to 150 was very difficult with crunchy snow.
They were typically already alerted at 350-500 yards.
Getting a shot was very difficult.

 

[Elkaddict]

Here's a copy of my dope that I've proven with my knight using 495gr no excuses over a wad and 85gr 777 3f. View attachment 501202

Thank you for this chart!