Kimber Montana vs. Tikka T3x Superlite vs. Savage 16 LWH (308)

[Formidilosus]

Just pulled the action off of the stock..


Quick question to the experts: does anyone put thread-locking compound on their action screws? It did not appear that any was on there to begin with, so I did not feel obligated to replace it when reassembling.

Every time. If it's a screw it gets loctite.

Assemble the rifle without the mag spring and follower in it. Reach down in the action and see if you can move the mag box.

 

[Rorschach]

Have you done the mag box grinding stuff before, Form? If so, what was the effect?

Everytime. If it's a stew it get loctitie.

Assemble the rifle without the mag spring and follower in it. Reach down in the action and see if you can move the mag box.

 

[Formidilosus]

I think every Montana I've seen has had to have it done.


If the magbox is rubbing, it keeps the action from sitting down into the stock causing all kinds of isssues in accuracy.

 

[Rorschach]

I don't know if this is indicative of this magbox-binding issue, but when I was torquing the action back down last night, both screws went from basically 20in*lbs to their final torque values (35in*lbs and 45in*lbs, rear and front, respectively) in close to an imperceptible amount of turning the wrench. I've torqued a lot of screws/bolts and I've never seen as tiny an amount of movement while progressively increasing the torque.

 

[16Bore]

That's good juju in my experience. As in nothing is bound and twisty.

Side bar here: Isn't a Montana basically a factory produced NULA? As in $1,100 vs $2,500? That might be where the "tweaks" are that seem to cause so many of the haters, so many problems.

 

[Blockcaver]

16Bore......think you are confusing Kimber with Forbes, who built the "factory NULA" with reputedly a bunch of problems.....typically more than any Kimber from what I've read. Note that the NULA and Forbes actions are not controlled round feed like the Kimbers.

 

[16Bore]

Roger that. Can't keep any of them straight. $3,000 factory rig better include a blonde......

 

[Rorschach]

Just finished taking the action from the stock, installing it sans magazine spring and follower, and checking it for play; it could be jiggled within the stock inlet with it chattering. So, it seems like we're good there, from the factory too!

So, it's properly torqued - 45in*lbs front, 35in*lbs rear - with thread-locking compound applied, and the magazine box appears to fit in such a way so as to not interfere with the action being able to be secured to the bedding/pillars.

I also now possess 150gr Fusions to try.

Anything else to check? I looked at that thread on 24hc.com, and I draw the line on how much tinkering I'm going to do with a $1200 rifle at bedding. Not going to do that.

 

[TBossHSauce]

168 gr Barnes ttsx

 

[Rorschach]

Are you saying I should try this ammunition?

I think I'm done buying ammo to try, without someone else to buy the remainder of it off of me, at least. Tried the 150gr TTSX's and they shot pretty poorly, consistently in each test run. Unless someone wants to donate, I think, at least in terms of ammunition selection attempted, I've given it ample opportunity to perform, and a good honest go at it.

Will retry a few types that I have purchased already and have some left of, but outside of that, no new ammunition.

168 gr Barnes ttsx

 

[luke moffat]

That's good news!!

I will say both the Kimbers I bought used were already bedded by the previous owners so I got off lucky there and didn't have to do it.

I would still be surprised if it beats the Tikka in grouping but who knows.

Mine certainly never did until I started handloading for them.

 

[16Bore]

$1,200 for a Kimber isn't much. Take a Walmart ADL and drop it in a McMillan edge and you're over $1,000. And still need a decent trigger. And still have a blued rifle.

The real comparison might be Kimber Hunter vs. Tikka T3, value wise. Apples to apples. T3 to Montana is apples to apple pie.

I like pie.

 

[Rorschach]

The real comparison if weight is the #1 concern, is Hunter to T3, I agree in that sense. If weight is the main concern, then there is no comparison between the T3 and the Montana; Montana wins hands down, I agree with you.

however, there's no arguing about what qualifies as "much" without a framework for determining "value" to the individual making the decision. Some will value weight over accuracy, some the opposite.

For me, I'm not going to sacrifice much with regards to accuracy for weight, and even then, there's a lower limit to what I'd settle for in terms of accuracy, no matter what small the weight.

$1,200 for a Kimber isn't much. Take a Walmart ADL and drop it in a McMillan edge and you're over $1,000. And still need a decent trigger. And still have a blued rifle.

The real comparison might be Kimber Hunter vs. Tikka T3, value wise. Apples to apples. T3 to Montana is apples to apple pie.

I like pie.

 

[16Bore]

A bling mag Tikka in a carbon fiber stock would be something. Side by side, you gotta be impressed with how the Montana soaks up recoil.

 

[16Bore]

Tikka play. 50's to 425, so that tells you what the wind was like today. No sense in wasting 75's, but wanted to check POI vs 50's. Kinda boring actually....

 

[GKPrice]

The real comparison if weight is the #1 concern, is Hunter to T3, I agree in that sense. If weight is the main concern, then there is no comparison between the T3 and the Montana; Montana wins hands down, I agree with you.

however, there's no arguing about what qualifies as "much" without a framework for determining "value" to the individual making the decision. Some will value weight over accuracy, some the opposite.

For me, I'm not going to sacrifice much with regards to accuracy for weight, and even then, there's a lower limit to what I'd settle for in terms of accuracy, no matter what small the weight.

So, since I didn't read all the chatter on this thread I just ask, what did Kimber say after they inspected and test shot your Montana ?

 

[Rorschach]

Link to Kimber Customer Service call post

Short version: called and their turnaround time was outside of what I find acceptable for me at this point in time.

So, since I didn't read all the chatter on this thread I just ask, what did Kimber say after they inspected and test shot your Montana ?

 

[GKPrice]

Link to Kimber Customer Service call post

Short version: called and their turnaround time was outside of what I find acceptable for me at this point in time.

I'm not trying to offend but it seems to me that you've established an attitude with this rifle/project that limits the possibility of a good outcome - Just order a NULA or MG Arms, a custom company with an established record of guaranteeing no questions asked satisfaction, pay the money and move forward - I can only speak for me but a part of my enthusiasm is the "project" aspect, it's not for everyone .... I'll still maintain that in the grand scheme of things Kimber does alright but I guess there are folks that hate a Ford or Chev too

 

[Rorschach]

That's probably a good way to say it, GK, but at least the information is out there now to another prospective buyer, and they'll know that if they get a Kimber that doesn't seem to hold up the guarantee, then they'll be in for - at this point in time, at least - at least 8 weeks of fiddling. With as many other 'projects' I've got going on in life, this was not supposed to end up being another project that takes months to complete and a lot of fiddling, waiting 45min to speak to customer service, etc., etc. At this point, I don't want to be adding projects. If the state of things is that a $1200 rifle with an accuracy guarantee can reasonably be expected to turn out as a "project", then that's the way things are, but no thanks.

I think another pertinent piece of information is what a "good outcome" requires in my case, and in the case of any future buyer - at least 8 weeks of waiting to see if whatever they do (Dremeling, barrel replacement, or - possibly - nothing) even works. Then, if not, 8 more weeks. Call it perfectly expected and reasonable, call it insanely ridiculous - it is what it is, and I'm not willing to go through it.

I'm guessing that at least some of you are retired with no kids in the house...

I'm not trying to offend but it seems to me that you've established an attitude with this rifle/project that limits the possibility of a good outcome - Just order a NULA or MG Arms, a custom company with an established record of guaranteeing no questions asked satisfaction, pay the money and move forward - I can only speak for me but a part of my enthusiasm is the "project" aspect, it's not for everyone .... I'll still maintain that in the grand scheme of things Kimber does alright but I guess there are folks that hate a Ford or Chev too

 

[GKPrice]

That's probably a good way to say it, GK, but at least the information is out there now to another prospective buyer, and they'll know that if they get a Kimber that doesn't seem to hold up the guarantee, then they'll be in for - at this point in time, at least - at least 8 weeks of fiddling. With as many other 'projects' I've got going on in life, this was not supposed to end up being another project that takes months to complete and a lot of fiddling, waiting 45min to speak to customer service, etc., etc. At this point, I don't want to be adding projects. If the state of things is that a $1200 rifle with an accuracy guarantee can reasonably be expected to turn out as a "project", then that's the way things are, but no thanks.

I think another pertinent piece of information is what a "good outcome" requires in my case, and in the case of any future buyer - at least 8 weeks of waiting to see if whatever they do (Dremeling, barrel replacement, or - possibly - nothing) even works. Then, if not, 8 more weeks. Call it perfectly expected and reasonable, call it insanely ridiculous - it is what it is, and I'm not willing to go through it.

I'm guessing that at least some of you are retired with no kids in the house...

all good points, I'd like to add that I have had cause to send 2 different Montana's in for servicing, address is Kalispell MT, and each was back in my hands in more like 3 weeks, even though the 8 week disclaimer was presented at each issuance of an RMA # - I also think it a bit unfair for a person who is giving feedback publicly yet has presented no credentials pertinent to experience or skill set to offer negative advertising for any company (and I realize that I'm a hypocrite for saying this) but as said before, to not give Kimber the chance to exercise and prove or disprove their "guaranteed" claim, possibly discouraging future sales based on this feedback - In simpler terms, and MY thinking, if you don't send it in and give Kimber the opportunity to prove themselves you're doing not only Kimber but other potential otherwise delighted consumers a huge disservice (IMO of course) - You are also not giving yourself the chance to have a "killer" lightweight mountain rifle for a fair price