Justice Alito "cooks" (literally!) BATFE "ghost gun" rule!

[Amos Keeto]

Pretty simple really!

Alito Wrecks ATF 'Ghost Gun' Claims: Are Eggs and Peppers an Omelet?

Justice Samuel Alito wrecked the government's defense of the ATF "ghost gun" rule during oral arguments Tuesday by asking if eggs and peppers are an omelet.

www.breitbart.com

 

[Beendare]

 

[Rotnguns]

Pretty simple really!

Alito Wrecks ATF 'Ghost Gun' Claims: Are Eggs and Peppers an Omelet?

Justice Samuel Alito wrecked the government's defense of the ATF "ghost gun" rule during oral arguments Tuesday by asking if eggs and peppers are an omelet.

www.breitbart.com

Gotta love that! Where does it end? Make helical springs, metal tubes and pins illegal because they can be used to build a pistol? Heck, maybe outlaw CNC mills and lathes? Polymer molds?

 

[Rotnguns]

Unfortunately, most of the articles I've read express the opinion that SCOTUS is disposed to allow Biden's Ghost Gun rule to stand. But on the other hand, the mainstream press could be just rewriting a single opinion from a writer on ScotusBlog:

Court likely to let Biden’s "ghost gun" regulation stand - SCOTUSblog

The Supreme Court on Tuesday appeared ready to uphold a 2022 federal rule regulating so-called “ghost guns” – untraceable weapons without serial numbers, assembled from components or kits that can be bought online. Defending the rule, U.S. Solicitor General Elizabeth Prelogar described an “explos

www.scotusblog.com

 

[Yoder]

I used to get all anxious and worried about new gun laws. I honestly don't care anymore. I don't even pay attention to any of them. I will not comply.

 

[Rotnguns]

I used to get all anxious and worried about new gun laws. I honestly don't care anymore. I don't even pay attention to any of them. I will not comply.

I see your point, and many of my friends agree with you, but when good people don't get politically involved, manipulators like Bloomberg and crazies in Demanding Moms get their way because of $$ and the determination associated with extremists. If unchecked, eventually we will lose our rights bit by bit.

 

[EdP]

I used to get all anxious and worried about new gun laws. I honestly don't care anymore. I don't even pay attention to any of them. I will not comply.

If you are not anxious and worried then I suspect you are not supporting those organizations fighting for our 2A rights. That's all well and good until guns are outlawed and the gov't confiscates them as happened in the UK. I am not worried so much about my 2A rights given my age, but I worry about those of my grandkids.

 

[Dos Perros]

I don't know how anyone could ever make an argument that an 80% lower is practically a firearm. It takes special equipment and expertise to turn one into a 'firearm.'

Maybe there are other examples where the effort or expertise required isn't so high? Dunno.

 

[ODB]

I used to get all anxious and worried about new gun laws. I honestly don't care anymore. I don't even pay attention to any of them. I will not comply.

A history lesson from the great Will Shirer. I’m not calling anyone in politics a new Hitler, but it is almost invariably the failure of the people to stop a threat.

Apathy is the totalitarian’s greatest ally.

 

[Amos Keeto]

I don't know how anyone could ever make an argument that an 80% lower is practically a firearm. It takes special equipment and expertise to turn one into a 'firearm.'

Maybe there are other examples where the effort or expertise required isn't so high? Dunno.

I don't, personally, have a problem with 80% lowers, but finished lowers are cheaper. (?)
My only reluctance with 80% lowers, and I may be wrong, is that if you get caught selling a firearm with no S/N, you're in trouble.
If you add a S/N to a lower, that makes you a manufacturer and that requires a FFL.

 

[Dos Perros]

If you add a S/N to a lower, that makes you a manufacturer and that requires a FFL.

I don't think that's true.

 

[maxx075]

I don't think that's true.

It's not. Just like machining your own suppressors is legal, just have to submit the correct paperwork

 

[CHAD PEZZLE]

I don't, personally, have a problem with 80% lowers, but finished lowers are cheaper. (?)
My only reluctance with 80% lowers, and I may be wrong, is that if you get caught selling a firearm with no S/N, you're in trouble.
If you add a S/N to a lower, that makes you a manufacturer and that requires a FFL.

Laws on this vary by state, not all states require 80% firearms to have serial numbers. Manufacturers weren't required to have serial numbers on firearms until 1968. There are a lot of early firearms that didn't have or serial numbers. There aren't any laws that say you can't sell those firearms.

Adding a serial number doesn't make you a manufacturer and doesn't require an FFL. It's kind of a gray area, as long as the firearm wasn't built with the intent to sell it, you're not a manufacturer. Build 20 80% firearms and sell them all immediately = manufacturing and would require an FFL.

Build a couple 80% firearms and sell them years later = not a manufacturer.

 

[Yoder]

If you are not anxious and worried then I suspect you are not supporting those organizations fighting for our 2A rights. That's all well and good until guns are outlawed and the gov't confiscates them as happened in the UK. I am not worried so much about my 2A rights given my age, but I worry about those of my grandkids.

What if we don't let them confiscate our guns?

The NRA is a joke at this point. I think I'm still a member. I gave them so much money, I think I'm still paid up for the next few years. I've donated to GOA but I honestly think it's a complete waste of time. These organizations are not going to save us. Democrats want to take your guns, and most Republicans want to let them.

 

[EdP]

What if we don't let them confiscate our guns?

They WILL pry them from your cold, dead hands, and mine too. A better option is to fight legally and politically IMO, but we will do what we must or die trying.

 

[elkliver]

I used to get all anxious and worried about new gun laws. I honestly don't care anymore. I don't even pay attention to any of them. I will not comply.

Easy to say until you are no longer able to purchase firearms or ammunition and/or you go to jail after a traffic stop because you had a firearm in the vehicle that is no longer legal to own.

 

[maxx075]

Easy to say until you are no longer able to purchase firearms or ammunition and/or you go to jail after a traffic stop because you had a firearm in the vehicle that is no longer legal to own.

If they start banning them, it's time to use them.

 

[Q child]

A history lesson from the great Will Shirer. I’m not calling anyone in politics a new Hitler, but it is almost invariably the failure of the people to stop a threat.

Apathy is the totalitarian’s greatest ally.

View attachment 774866

I'm kind of confused by this paragraph. In one sentence Shirer says that Hitler's opposition were shortsighted, and also must have had foresight.
Does he go on to explain why they must have known they'd be overwhelmed?

 

[ODB]

I'm kind of confused by this paragraph. In one sentence Shirer says that Hitler's opposition were shortsighted, and also must have had foresight.
Does he go on to explain why they must have known they'd be overwhelmed?

I think the point he was trying to make was that the individual groups (Communists, Social Democrats the Social trade Union,etc.) were so interested in maintaining and growing their individual power, that even though they knew the National Socialists could be an overwhelming political power, they could not temper (even for a short time) their own ambitions by sharing power with their OTHER political enemies and that shortsightedness (I.e. let’s band together and fight a bigger enemy now and we will pick up our battle afterwards) resulted in zero opposition because it would have taken them ALL to oppose Hitler and ALL was something they could not allow themselves to do. There were even some who believed Nazism was inevitable, but it would be short-lived and would cause the fall of capitalism, so they preferred to sit on the sidelines, ride the tide of a small spell of Nazism, then create the Communist utopia on the other side. At this stage of the politics, there was all to play for and Hitler was merely a player, not yet the monster (at least publicly) we know him as.

Just a year after this era Shirer is talking about, the German president Hindenburg literally appointed Hitler Chancellor. As Shirer makes a point of saying, the Third Reich was inaugurated during peace time, and the German people imposed (what would become) Nazi tyranny on themselves.

As Dietrich Bonhoeffer said:

Silence in the face of evil is itself evil:
God will not hold us guiltless.
Not to speak is to speak.
Not to act is to act

 

[Q child]

I think the point he was trying to make was that the individual groups (Communists, Social Democrats the Social trade Union,etc.) were so interested in maintaining and growing their individual power, that even though they knew the National Socialists could be an overwhelming political power, they could not temper (even for a short time) their own ambitions by sharing power with their OTHER political enemies and that shortsightedness (I.e. let’s band together and fight a bigger enemy now and we will pick up our battle afterwards) resulted in zero opposition because it would have taken them ALL to oppose Hitler and ALL was something they could not allow themselves to do. There were even some who believed Nazism was inevitable, but it would be short-lived and would cause the fall of capitalism, so they preferred to sit on the sidelines, ride the tide of a small spell of Nazism, then create the Communist utopia on the other side. At this stage of the politics, there was all to play for and Hitler was merely a player, not yet the monster (at least publicly) we know him as.

Just a year after this era Shirer is talking about, the German president Hindenburg literally appointed Hitler Chancellor. As Shirer makes a point of saying, the Third Reich was inaugurated during peace time, and the German people imposed (what would become) Nazi tyranny on themselves.

As Dietrich Bonhoeffer said:

Silence in the face of evil is itself evil:
God will not hold us guiltless.
Not to speak is to speak.
Not to act is to act

Wow. Nice explanation. Thanks for taking the time. That all makes sense with a little more context.