Is there anyone who prefers MOA vs MIls for hunting purposes?

[JF_Idaho]

Mils are the better system for sure. I have 90% Mil scopes ffp or fixed. I do have a Credo HX on a hunting rifle 6.5cm and an old Nikon X series in moa.

Quick drop is great. No major advantage over having a dope card on your rifle or a rangefinder that spits out solutions. Either way you're ranging.

Quick wind works just as good on Moa. You will have a higher base wind (i.e. 10mph vs 6mph, etc) and you will halve your yardage. Example - 600 yards = 3 moa at full value 10mph. 300 yards = 1.5 moa. With either one you're most likely mathing unless the wind is exact your gun number.

I doubt I would buy another moa scope.

 

[Bowfinn]

Here is my experience with the quick drop.

About 1 year ago I “had” to have a range finder with ballistics built in. I bought one that gives me this data, but after a 2 second delay. Currently I can calculate the quick drop before my ranger finder displays the data. I likely won’t use my range finder in the ballistic mode because it displays the yardage in LOS, and has the 2 second delay.

 

[Imy0095]

Vote for ffp mil, but for a hunting scope I’d worry about weight and light gethering first.


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[solarshooter]

Vote for ffp mil, but for a hunting scope I’d worry about weight and light gethering first.


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Reticle design is also very important. I think the SWFA is the overall winner/easy button.

 

[Oakman]

My personal experience with scopes started with MOA, which I think is a solid starting point for most shooters. It’s precise and easy to understand.
But as I got deeper into long range shooting, switching to Mil became almost essential. For quick follow up shots and fast target acquisition, nothing beats a good Mil based system.
The reticle provides excellent reference points, and once I became familiar with it, the speed and fluidity it offers in the field really stood out.

 

[mt terry d]

Quick drop is great. No major advantage over having a dope card on your rifle or a rangefinder that spits out solutions. Either way you're ranging.

I'd say there are advantages for myself.
Yes, you usually need to range and if your rangefinder fails you can always use the
mil/rad lines to figure out a pretty good estimate.

However, I cannot rely on the rangefinder ballistics on my Vortex Fury 5000AB as

1: I got very frustrated trying to set it up and just said to hEll with it
2: This rangefinder doesn't always ( as in almost never) works when it's cold
I carry a small RF in my pocket that stays warmer and usually works in those conditions.

I have a dope card taped to my stock but shooting within my realistic limitations
the quick drop is close enough that whatever it's off won't affect my success rate.

So, I don't have to even take my eyes off an animal to look at the dope card ( even if it's not
packed with snow or mud or accidentally ripped off) so it is quicker.

Range
Subtract 2.
Kill animal.

 

[TaperPin]

I think you’ve said that you don’t currently dial now, but that you zero at 200/300 yards and use holdovers.

If that’s the case, you’re going to see no benefit from mils.

The benefit of mils is for folks who want more precision than Kentucky windage — folks who zero at 100 and dial from there.

Kentucky windage for big game to 350 is so quick with MOA (or MILs) it’s a nobrainer, so that won’t change any, but I dial past that. Its not uncommon to dial everything for small varmints. My oldest dialable fixed power varmint scope is from the 1970s, so dialing isn’t anything new. Every year I have to remind the nephews we were dialing scopes back when their parents were having their first kiss behind the bleachers in junior high. Lol

 

[Dave0317]

Here’s an experiment you can try. Go paint an elk silhouette target in elk terrain to blend in. Don’t measure the target ahead of time so you don’t know the size of the elk.

Dial or hold for elevation, whatever your method is and shoot 5 shots at vitals.

Next, “aim” 5” higher and shoot 5 more shots. Now go measure the target and be amazed at how terrible you are at “aiming 5 inches high” at 500 yards in an animal.

Let’s say you have a “1 MOA All Day” gun. That’s already 5” or error at 500 yards just fyi.

I’d love to see this experiment actually shot by some random guys.

My prediction: you get two 15 inch groups, so even if you hold “5 inches high”. The two groups overlap by 5-10 inches and you couldn’t even tell which group was which. It would just look like a big 20-25 inch group. And that’s not even getting into if there was a wind or ranging error.

 

[flyfisher117]

No I hate MOA reticles. Anymore the only thing I’m Ok with in MOA is red dots. And maybe an MOa BDC reticle on a 223 for ringing steel.

The whole 5 inch low at 500 yards scenario is always cute to see. It all goes out the window when someone is multiple inches low at some weird yardage. In a hunting scenario even a good spotter isn’t going to be able to give enough information for me to do mental math.

 

[Pilsner]

Pretty sure that would be 1 moa low, not 5. And I prefer moa because its what I know and have. But I'm intrigued by mils. Just havnt switched or tried it yet.

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We could have just closed comments on this thread after your comment, especially it being immediately after Forms.
*shakes head sadly*
-Doc

 

[Pilsner]

What kind of savant spotter knows you missed exactly “5 inches low” at 500 yards on an animal?

So its got to be 5" low of fur which on an elk of say 16" vital size circle would actually be 8 + 5 so 13 inches low. Which would only put you hitting fur not vitals. A 5" low hit off of center of vitals is STILL IN THE VITALS ON AN ELK.
I am certain that the OP just picked 5" as a "for instance" but still... sheesh.

 

[justin davis]

GoodGun, average gun and Bad gun are better describers with less subjective overlap for good, avg, bad brackets.

Good gun:
.3-.6 G1 BC, 2800-3000 fps

Average gun:
.3-.6 G1 BC, 2600-2800 fps

Bad gun:
.3-.6G1 BC, 2400-2600 fps

Quick drop use Average Gun as BASE GUN, which is range-2.

450yds -2= 2.5 Mils dial up
800yds -2= 6Mils dial up
279yds -2= .8 Mils dial up

Beyond 7-800 QD starts to diverge depending on your rifle and conditions.

From there, a rifle is BASE(-2) + or - .5

Good Gun, range -2 -.5Mil
Bad Gun, range -2 +.5Mil

This sounds like extra mental math but in function it's not.

Good gun:
450yds -2 =2.5 Mils -.5
Dial 2.5 and back .5 to 2Mils or straight to 2 Mils once you've mastered it.

Bad gun:
450yds -2 =2.5 Mils +.5
Dial 2.5 Mils, dial up another .5 to 3 Mils.

The reason it's taught that way is so Average Gun is the BASE you operate from, the system. Then you add or subtract from the base figure.

It sounds hard until you do it, it's easy once you adjust to operating this way. like anything. it becomes automatic.

So what about gun that has speed over 3000. Like 3400 fps?

 

[longrangelead]

So what about gun that has speed over 3000. Like 3400 fps?

shoot it, true it and adjust, base -.7 instead of .5 or whatever yours actually is.

 

[Quandary]

It’s not even about figuring drop in your head. Even if both shooters need to look at their DOPE, base-10 is easier to manage.

If your DOPE says 6.43 MOA, you’re going to dial to “6” and then think “how many 1/4 MOA clicks is 0.43?” You’ll then round up to 0.5 and dial two more clicks. If your DOPE is 2.3 mrad, you’ll dial to the “2” and then add 3 clicks. Simple. If your DOPE is 17.65 MOA, you’ll dial one 15-MOA revolutuon and then think about adding 2.65 MOA, dial to the “2,” round up to 0.75, and add 3 clicks. With mrad, if your DOPE is 12.8 mrad, you’ll dial one 10-mrad revolution, dial to the “2,” and add 8 clicks (or dial to “3” and take away 2 clicks). Notice that with mrad you’re not rounding numbers in your head. Under stress and time pressure, simpler is better.

You must know a lot of math challenged hunters!

 

[rookieforever33]

I know this is Rokslide where we act like everyone is a shoot to hunt teacher or student, but realistically most hunters, even Roksliders, are probably shooting 200 to 500 rounds per year. Most likely split between a couple rifles. As one of those I know that one rifle adds 1 moa for every 50 yards from my 200 yards zero to 500. Another rifle is 1.5 moa for every 50 yards from 200 to 500. When dialing any scope I am looking at the number on the dial, not counting clicks. If you use the quick drop for mils you need to be in that range of mv and bc stated. I do not doubt that mils may be better if you take the time to learn the language. But I know that most shooters need to know their drops to the yardage they are comfortable shooting without needing any math, quick or slow. Long story short, know your rifle, and your range. Dont think using one system or the other makes you a better shooter if you dont take the time to practice.

 

[fisherman983]

We could have just closed comments on this thread after your comment, especially it being immediately after Forms.
*shakes head sadly*
-Doc

Unless I read the original comment wrong, 5 inches at 500 yds is 1 moa, not 5 moa. But if your trying to be absolutely exact, it's a little more.

Unless your in agreement with my comment I can't actually tell?

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[BCDJR]

I know mils is the more popular option for longe range shooters and I understand alot of the benefits.

But I was thinking about a pure hunting situation when you have a spotter watching through a non reticle spotting scope while hunting and the shooter is shooting at a animal. The shooter misses and the spotter yells out 5” low. To me I can instantly convert that in my head to 5 moa at 500 yards distance.

Wondering what everyone’s thoughts are on that? Would like to switch over but getting hung up on that scenario


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Seems to me in your stated example. Probably don’t have time to lower rifle and do any adjustments to turrets anyway. Just hold higher in this case and let it go!

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

but realistically most hunters, even Roksliders, are probably shooting 200 to 500 rounds per year.

More like 2-5 boxes of ammo per year max. I would say though, in what I’ve seen meeting dozens of Rokslide members, they are far and above “most hunters” in rounds shot and general rifleman-ship.

 

[BLJ]

I know this is Rokslide where we act like everyone is a shoot to hunt teacher or student, but realistically most hunters, even Roksliders, are probably shooting 200 to 500 rounds per year. Most likely split between a couple rifles. As one of those I know that one rifle adds 1 moa for every 50 yards from my 200 yards zero to 500. Another rifle is 1.5 moa for every 50 yards from 200 to 500. When dialing any scope I am looking at the number on the dial, not counting clicks. If you use the quick drop for mils you need to be in that range of mv and bc stated. I do not doubt that mils may be better if you take the time to learn the language. But I know that most shooters need to know their drops to the yardage they are comfortable shooting without needing any math, quick or slow. Long story short, know your rifle, and your range. Dont think using one system or the other makes you a better shooter if you dont take the time to practice.

Good post.

 

[Ryanlemon5]

Honestly started out with a 2FP Moa scope not I’m running a FFP MIL on my hunting rifle. Experiment with both and see what suits you best.