Is there an ultimate brown bear, elk, and moose cartridge?

[Kotaman]

I’ve killed several of all three with .300 RUM. I own bigger guns, (340 Weatherby, 375 Ruger, 375 H&H) but always seem to take the .300 ultra for those three species.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Lots of good points and counterpoints, there is overlap when choosing the right tool for the job, no question. Experience and sharing in discussion like this is what paints the picture. Guys pick out the details and sort them to what is going to fit them best.

If I knew 400 yard shots could be a reality, the Whelen AI wouldn't go for big bear. It would be the 300 WM with a 200 grain controlled expansion projectile since I don't have any larger bore flatter shooting rifles. Even when I share what my favorite pick would be, reality has to be taken into consideration for a successful hunt given all possible scenarios.

 

[jb338]

The 375 H&H with the right bullet is very capable out to 400 yards. The Barnes 270 grain LRX is a great choice. I've killed quite a few bull moose with this cartridge and bullet combination. It's also a relatively comfortable cartridge to shoot. The recoil pulse is more of a progressive push, as opposed to a sharp snap (Recoil Energy 37.59 ft/lbs and Recoil Velocity 15.32 FPS).

From my perspective, ft /lbs of Kinetic Energy is not the best measurement of terminal ballistic energy....when shooting large game, with heavy bone and muscle structure. In the table below you'll see some of the other ways of quantifying terminal impact energy (e.g. Optimum Game Weight, Taylor K.O. Factor, Momentum). Each method places different biases on bullet velocity, bullet weight and bullet diameter. Of all the formulas the Taylor K.O. Factor seems the most accurate for moose...because it takes caliber (0.375") into account and shouldn't be understated

My bullets are leaving the muzzle at 2839 FPS and are still above 2000 FPS at 400 yards.

Ammunition is loaded by Unknown Munitions using Norma Brass and RL-17. Jake's ammo is incredible!!

When I initially zero'd my rifle I shot seven 3-round groups, with an overall average of 0.427 MOA. Followed by truing my Kestrel 5700 ( Applied Ballistics software), which called for a truing distance of 718 yards. Shooting into a paper target set at 720 yards...I shot one 10-round group...with all 10 shots grouping into 0.673 MOA as measured by Ballistic-X. The correction to muzzle velocity required for truing was 0.28% (2831 FPS-->2839 FPS) The AB Custom Drag Model for the Barnes 270 LRX was wicked accurate.

The longest shot on a bull moose with this setup has been 427 yards. Broadside, double lung hit, excellent terminal bullet performance, bull tipped over within 5 seconds.

My purpose in mentioning all of this, is for anyone considering a 375 H&H, my experience with this cartridge and bullet combination has been really good. It's been very accurate, comfortable enough to shoot and has been devastating on moose and interior Alaska Grizzly bears.

View attachment 379993

Maravia Dave thats some good info with this chart. can I ask where to find this? Thanks john

 

[MaraviaDave]

Maravia Dave thats some good info with this chart. can I ask where to find this? Thanks john

I built the table, using ballistic formulas and conditional formatting, in an Excel workbook.

 

[Anschutz]

I built the table, using ballistic formulas and conditional formatting, in an Excel workbook.

Care to share with us simple minded folk?

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[jb338]

I built the table, using ballistic formulas and conditional formatting, in an Excel workbook.

Thats really nice. Lots of detail. Thanks

 

[Viper*6]

If you are considering Coastal Brown Bear such as Kodiak Island they are considered dangerous game not like their cousins the interior Grizz which are smaller. The 375 H&H would be the ideal cartridge, however the 338 Win Mag is very capable and up to the task. Alot of Alaskans pack the 338 Win Mag for moose usually where the interior grizz hang out.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

If you are considering Coastal Brown Bear such as Kodiak Island they are considered dangerous game not like their cousins the interior Grizz which are smaller. The 375 H&H would be the ideal cartridge, however the 338 Win Mag is very capable and up to the task. Alot of Alaskans pack the 338 Win Mag for moose usually where the interior grizz hang out.

I see a lot of 375 and 338 among the serious moose/bear guys I know.

 

[hodgeman]

I see a lot of 375 and 338 among the serious moose/bear guys I know.

I do too...or at least I used to.

It seems in recent times I see a lot more .300s and 06s and stuff like the 28NOS than .338s and .375s.

 

[Viper*6]

I have to make one more point. I think the 300 Win Mag is the perfect elk cartridge and will take moose and interior grizz without a problem. Moose and grizz are not difficult to kill. I've killed 2 moose Alaskan moose and 1 grizz with the ole 270 Win although not highly recommended.

 

[Docpk]

Close range 375 H&H
Reach out 340 Weatherby

 

[MaraviaDave]

The 375 H&H with the right bullet is very capable out to 400 yards. The Barnes 270 grain LRX is a great choice. I've killed quite a few bull moose with this cartridge and bullet combination. It's also a relatively comfortable cartridge to shoot. The recoil pulse is more of a progressive push, as opposed to a sharp snap (Recoil Energy 37.59 ft/lbs and Recoil Velocity 15.32 FPS).

From my perspective, ft /lbs of Kinetic Energy is not the best measurement of terminal ballistic energy....when shooting large game, with heavy bone and muscle structure. In the table below you'll see some of the other ways of quantifying terminal impact energy (e.g. Optimum Game Weight, Taylor K.O. Factor, Momentum). Each method places different biases on bullet velocity, bullet weight and bullet diameter. Of all the formulas the Taylor K.O. Factor seems the most accurate for moose...because it takes caliber (0.375") into account and shouldn't be understated

My bullets are leaving the muzzle at 2839 FPS and are still above 2000 FPS at 400 yards.

Ammunition is loaded by Unknown Munitions using Norma Brass and RL-17. Jake's ammo is incredible!!

When I initially zero'd my rifle I shot seven 3-round groups, with an overall average of 0.427 MOA. Followed by truing my Kestrel 5700 ( Applied Ballistics software), which called for a truing distance of 718 yards. Shooting into a paper target set at 720 yards...I shot one 10-round group...with all 10 shots grouping into 0.673 MOA as measured by Ballistic-X. The correction to muzzle velocity required for truing was 0.28% (2831 FPS-->2839 FPS) The AB Custom Drag Model for the Barnes 270 LRX was wicked accurate.

The longest shot on a bull moose with this setup has been 427 yards. Broadside, double lung hit, excellent terminal bullet performance, bull tipped over within 5 seconds.

My purpose in mentioning all of this, is for anyone considering a 375 H&H, my experience with this cartridge and bullet combination has been really good. It's been very accurate, comfortable enough to shoot and has been devastating on moose and interior Alaska Grizzly bears.

View attachment 379993

I often hear people saying the 375 H&H is a cartridge for ‘shorter’ ranges. Admittedly, it’s not the best choice for really extended ranges. However, it’s very capable at reasonable hunting ranges.

For example, a 6.5 Creedmoor is thought of by many as a good cartridge for longer range shooting at deer sized game. Using all of the same environmental inputs and zero range used in the 375 H&H table from my earlier post…. a 147 ELD-M (MV 2716 fps) drops 50.2” at 500 yards. The H&H with a 270 LRX drops 52.0” at 500 yards. A difference of 1.8” at 500 yards. That’s a difference of ~0.3 MOA.

How many shooters, with hunting weight rifles, shooting under field conditions…could shoot the difference?

Yeah, I understand we’re talking about different cartridges, bullet types, bullet weight and muzzle velocities.

I’m simply pointing out that many people think the 6.5 Creedmoor is long range capable and for some reason the 375 H&H is not.

From a bullet drop perspective…..at reasonable hunting ranges (for capable rifleman) I believe the 375 H&H is absolutely capable.

 

[The_Yetti]

I have a 300 WM in a Ruger, so if I were in your shoes, I'd go 375 Ruger in a Ruger as well, just to have that familiarity.

 

[Shraggs]

762, love my 223 and 77s…

I’ve not hunted big bears, yet. so just a random unqualified thought:

An unconventional thought, my 358 win with handloads with 200 GR hammer hunters pushing over 2700 FPS. Definitely gets past 400 yards effective range. It’s as much the fast handling light BLR platform for me tho.

I put my 350 rem mag load development on hold to finish above, but am currently pushing 225 partions in the 2760 FPS range in a Ruger m77 all weather. 2000 FPS is in 400 yd range. Also a carry weight that works for me.

Really wanted a 375 too, all that I’ve handled are quite heavy I’m sure for good reason. But that lead me to pursue the 35s in short actions for the carry comfort.

 

[Junkball]

I missed nothing you said. Sectional density is not a consideration for moose hunting. I’m guessing you are an engineer by trade. You seem to be overthinking this.

Nah of course it is, and you'd guess wrong about my profession. I'm a naval aviator and not a particularly smart one at that, but I still grasp simple physics.

 

[Anschutz]

Really wanted a 375 too, all that I’ve handled are quite heavy I’m sure for good reason. But that lead me to pursue the 35s in short actions for the carry comfort.

My Ruger No. 1 in .375 weighs 8lbs. With a scope it would weigh a little more but I plan to keep it open sighted as it carries so well without a scope.


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[thinhorn_AK]

762, love my 223 and 77s…

I’ve not hunted big bears, yet. so just a random unqualified thought:

An unconventional thought, my 358 win with handloads with 200 GR hammer hunters pushing over 2700 FPS. Definitely gets past 400 yards effective range. It’s as much the fast handling light BLR platform for me tho.

I put my 350 rem mag load development on hold to finish above, but am currently pushing 225 partions in the 2760 FPS range in a Ruger m77 all weather. 2000 FPS is in 400 yd range. Also a carry weight that works for me.

Really wanted a 375 too, all that I’ve handled are quite heavy I’m sure for good reason. But that lead me to pursue the 35s in short actions for the carry comfort.

My xcr2 in 375HH weighs about 7.5lbs with the scope. It’s not unpleasant to shoot at all.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Nah of course it is, and you'd guess wrong about my profession. I'm a naval aviator and not a particularly smart one at that, but I still grasp simple physics.

Cool, you keep crunching sectional density numbers for those 100-300yd shots on moose. I’ll just keep stacking the moose and filling my freezer every year.

 

[Shraggs]

My Ruger No. 1 in .375 weighs 8lbs. With a scope it would weigh a little more but I plan to keep it open sighted as it carries so well without a scope.


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Ya know… recently sold my 7 rem in Ruger 1. They can take some time to shoot but nothing carries like a single! Good for thought. As I’m trying thin my stock, darn you

 

[Shraggs]

My xcr2 in 375HH weighs about 7.5lbs with the scope. It’s not unpleasant to shoot at all.

Just looked at that, sweet set up!

So not unpleasant like my 223 and 77s ?