Is the 6.8 western gaining traction or did the 7mm prc finish it off?

[Lou270]

In total numbers of people yes- in amount of bullets and rounds sold and shot- especially for a new cartridge, not even close. You have people right here bragging about how they have 100-200 rounds and that will last a decade for the rifle. Thats a single day for people that shoot.

I don’t disagree but you are looking through narrow view. The point of discussion is something ok to buy since it will be available. The 6.5cm had lot of niche support but did not explode and become “common” until your “fudds” got a hold of it. The prcs and 6.8W for now riding on coat-tails

“Shooters” are a high margin niche market. We buy premium brass and and hyper optimize minutia on bullets for specific purposes. For ex, we often say look how many more 6.5 or 7mm bullets there are then 277. However berger and sierra offer a bunch of different matchking and target bullets of the same weight optimized for slightly different match purposes. Great if you need a certain bullet for fclass but not sure how that matters for vast majority. Also look at all the niche brass offerinfs out there that there are zero factory ammo or rifles. How many 7 saum or 284 win build plans is the 7prc gonna kill? And when the next 7 comes along the “shooters” gonna jump cause its minutia

Nope - if prcs, 6.8w et all make it in marketplace will be because of hunters not shooters. Unless one of them becomes tacticool like the 223 or 308…

Lou

 

[Lou270]

I dont think this is correct. Prs/fclass shooters may be fewer in number, but hunters buy much less ammo. One needs look no further than pittman-robertson funding data—I have seen the statistic cited a number of times that 75% is from some form of target shooting, not hunting-related. I am a casual shooter by the standards of the folks I shoot matches with, and I still go through as much ammo in a day of shooting as I do in 2 years of hunting and practicing for hunting.
I think the “old” 270win is still easily available because it had a 100-ish year head start and people are still buying ammo for all those rifles. I know when I buy 270 win ammo the selection is consistent, but it’s never as large as the popular cartridges for range use.

The folks shooting up 75% of ammo on targets is vastly shooting shooting 9mm and 223. This is why when we go through “bad periods” that is all you can find. Then gradually 308 comes. After a while you see the most popular hunting rounds like 6.5cm, 30-06, 270 etc. and yes I am including hornady in this because you could not buy prc during covid but could 6.8W because Win introduced it and did a big ammo/brass dump despite no rifles yet

Lou

 

[RockAndSage]

There’s no shenanigans- Hornady is lead by shooters which is why there products work so well...Winchester/Browning is lead by people that not only aren’t “shooters”, they’re not even legit hunters. It’s something that “hunters” can’t grasp- shooters actually buy and shoot ammo, hunters don’t.

In total numbers of people yes- in amount of bullets and rounds sold and shot- especially for a new cartridge, not even close.

There's so much you're saying here that's reasonable and that I agree with, especially in terms of the cultures of these companies.

But to say that "shooters" buy more ammo than hunters is just not even remotely accurate. It just isn't, not even close.

Now, per person, shooters vs your average hunter? Sure, you're totally right. I shoot more centerfire rifle ammo in a few months than my dad or grandfather did in their entire lifetimes. But as a market segment, hunters absolutely swamp "shooters" by at least a full order of magnitude in ammo sales - it's not even in the same universe. Last year alone, Texas issued over 1.8 million hunting licenses, tags, etc, and Wisconsin issued over 4 million.

USPSA doesn't even have 40,000 shooters in the entire country. PRS has about 6000 total.

So even if Bubba's only buying 2 boxes of good ol' Core-Lokt for the trusty '06 each season, I guarantee you there aren't 400,000 "shooters" in any combination of competition circuits in Wisconsin buying 8 million boxes of match ammo there each year. That's just hunting rifle ammo. When you add in small game, upland birds, and waterfowl, the ammo purchased by hunters is likely an additional full order of magnitude greater or more. The numbers are absolutely insane.

This isn't to detract from your points about the differences in cultures of Hornady vs Winchester, et al, and why the shooting culture at Hornady is likely driving a huge part of their innovation and success. But it's Bubba that has kept Big Green, Winchester, etc alive, and why they don't seem to even try to innovate.

If you want to get an idea of just how massive the hunting ammo market is over "shooters", take a listen to Seth at about the 1:30 mark here - for almost a decade, .450 Bushmaster has been in the top 5 of Hornady's rifle ammo sales.

I suspect 30-06 is quite a bit higher in the top 5, and we all know that's not a round "shooters" are burning up barrels with.

 

[Formidilosus]

There's so much you're saying here that's reasonable and that I agree with, especially in terms of the cultures of these companies.

But to say that "shooters" buy more ammo than hunters is just not even remotely accurate. It just isn't, not even close.

Yes, it is. I’m not guessing. All the hunting ammo sold in a year combined doesn’t equal 9mm sales alone. Same goes for 223/5.56. All the 270win ammo sold in a year doesn’t match what one companies sales in 6.5cm in a month. Same for 300WM commercially. Same for 7RM, 338win mag, etc, etc.

Ammo sales follow rifle sales and the standard hunter that believes his “insert whatever cartridge” he’s been using for 20 years and on the same box of ammo for the last three years, don’t buy new cartridges to hunt. The 6.8 western offers that Hunter absolutely nothing over his 270win. It also doesn’t offer match or competition shooters, or long range shooters anything that isn’t better done than a 6.5 PRC or 7mm PRC. Introducing a normal modern “hunting” cartridge is a dead end now.

If hunters- that is common CF rifle big game hunters, shot enough and therefor bought as much ammo as “shooters”, then all the SAUM’s, WSM’s, 260Rem, 7mm-08, 300 RCM, 7mm STW, 26/28/30 noslers, 22 Nosler, all the RUM’s, 204 Ruger, 6.8 Western, etc, etc would be massively popular. They aren’t, because for the most part they are designed sub-optimally, shooters aren’t using them, and hunters don’t shoot.

Save the very niche carriages below, all of the CF rifle cartridges that have caught on are “match” cartridges- mage by and for shooters. Almost across the board what makes a good match cartridge makes a good hunting cartridge- the same is not in reverse. The 6.8 Western is a well designed cartridge in general, but it was brought out as a hunting cartridge, and has more recoil, and has more wind drift than factory 6.5PRC ammo that is everywhere.

People and companies can keep saying that “hunters” are the market, and they can keep having failed products.

Now, per person, shooters vs your average hunter? Sure, you're totally right. I shoot more centerfire rifle ammo in a few months than my dad or grandfather did in their entire lifetimes. But as a market segment, hunters absolutely swamp "shooters" by at least a full order of magnitude in ammo sales - it's not even in the same universe. Last year alone, Texas issued over 1.8 million hunting licenses, tags, etc, and Wisconsin issued over 4 million.

Take sales has little to nothing to do with ammo sales.

USPSA doesn't even have 40,000 shooters in the entire country. PRS has about 6000 total.

As a USPSA shooter I average between 20,000 and 40,000 pistol rounds a year and have for almost two decades. Every one I know that is serious is shooting at least 5,000 a year, and almost all are over 10,000 a year. Even the causal a few times a year shooters are shooting multiple thousand a year.


In broad terms, shooters shoot and buy new guns and ammo. Hunters don’t.

So even if Bubba's only buying 2 boxes of good ol' Core-Lokt for the trusty '06 each season,

Bubba isn’t buying two boxes of 30-06 a year. More like two boxes every 5-6 years.

I guarantee you there aren't 400,000 "shooters" in any combination of competition circuits in Wisconsin buying 8 million boxes of match ammo there each year. That's just hunting rifle ammo. When you add in small game, upland birds, and waterfowl, the ammo purchased by hunters is likely an additional full order of magnitude greater or more. The numbers are absolutely insane.

The conversation is about CF hunting rounds. Shotgun hunters and shooters do shoot a lot. Big game hunters don’t.

But it's Bubba that has kept Big Green, Winchester, etc alive, and why they don't seem to even try to innovate.

Big green? You mean the company that went out of business, got sold and didn’t produce ammo for an extended period?

I mean yes- hunters are the ones that mainly use Remington and Winchester ammo, because neither company makes long range or match ammo that’s worth a flip, and any specialty ammo they do produce is absurdly expensive and not readily available.

If you want to get an idea of just how massive the hunting ammo market is over "shooters", take a listen to Seth at about the 1:30 mark here - for almost a decade, .450 Bushmaster has been in the top 5 of Hornady's rifle ammo sales.

I suspect 30-06 is quite a bit higher in the top 5, and we all know that's not a round "shooters" are burning up barrels with.

Again, like the 350 legend the 450 BM is a niche cartridge that exits mainly due to some states banning bottleneck cartridges. If/when those states change their laws, it will fade. There are only a very few niche hunting gaps left to fill- and they aren’t in the 6mm-30cal markets.

 

[RockAndSage]

Yes, it is. I’m not guessing. All the hunting ammo sold in a year combined doesn’t equal 9mm sales alone. Same goes for 223/5.56. All the 270win ammo sold in a year doesn’t match what one companies sales in 6.5cm in a month. Same for 300WM commercially. Same for 7RM, 338win mag, etc, etc.

Ammo sales follow rifle sales and the standard hunter that believes his “insert whatever cartridge” he’s been using for 20 years and on the same box of ammo for the last three years, don’t buy new cartridges to hunt. The 6.8 western offers that Hunter absolutely nothing over his 270win. It also doesn’t offer match or competition shooters, or long range shooters anything that isn’t better done than a 6.5 PRC or 7mm PRC. Introducing a normal modern “hunting” cartridge is a dead end now.

If hunters- that is common CF rifle big game hunters, shot enough and therefor bought as much ammo as “shooters”, then all the SAUM’s, WSM’s, 260Rem, 7mm-08, 300 RCM, 7mm STW, 26/28/30 noslers, 22 Nosler, all the RUM’s, 204 Ruger, 6.8 Western, etc, etc would be massively popular. They aren’t, because for the most part they are designed sub-optimally, shooters aren’t using them, and hunters don’t shoot.

Save the very niche carriages below, all of the CF rifle cartridges that have caught on are “match” cartridges- mage by and for shooters. Almost across the board what makes a good match cartridge makes a good hunting cartridge- the same is not in reverse. The 6.8 Western is a well designed cartridge in general, but it was brought out as a hunting cartridge, and has more recoil, and has more wind drift than factory 6.5PRC ammo that is everywhere.

People and companies can keep saying that “hunters” are the market, and they can keep having failed products.






Take sales has little to nothing to do with ammo sales.




As a USPSA shooter I average between 20,000 and 40,000 pistol rounds a year and have for almost two decades. Every one I know that is serious is shooting at least 5,000 a year, and almost all are over 10,000 a year. Even the causal a few times a year shooters are shooting multiple thousand a year.


In broad terms, shooters shoot and buy new guns and ammo. Hunters don’t.





Bubba isn’t buying two boxes of 30-06 a year. More like two boxes every 5-6 years.





The conversation is about CF hunting rounds. Shotgun hunters and shooters do shoot a lot. Big game hunters don’t.






Big green? You mean the company that went out of business, got sold and didn’t produce ammo for an extended period?

I mean yes- hunters are the ones that mainly use Remington and Winchester ammo, because neither company makes long range or match ammo that’s worth a flip, and any specialty ammo they do produce is absurdly expensive and not readily available.








Again, like the 350 legend the 450 BM is a niche cartridge that exits mainly due to some states banning bottleneck cartridges. If/when those states change their laws, it will fade. There are only a very few niche hunting gaps left to fill- and they aren’t in the 6mm-30cal markets.

Yeah...mostly I'm seeing confirmation bias of a dedicated shooter clouding personal opinion. Not buying it. I think it's time for you to get some actual data on cartridge sales and share it with us.

If 450 Bushmaster is a "niche" cartridge in terms of sales, it just simply would not be in Hornady's top 5 centerfire cartridges sold.

36k USPSA members and 6000 PRS shooters are just not sustaining the US private/consumer ammo industrial complex. A couple of new boxes of ammo sold with each new gun sold in the US will account for multiples of the ammo they collectively run through.

Don't confuse what's being said here - Hornady's shooting culture may be driving their design excellence and relative commercial success for new cartridges. But until I see industry data on cartridge sales, I'm just not buying your argument that "shooters" buy more rifle ammo than the nation's hunting community.

 

[Lou270]

Geez, I dont know why even arguing this. The vast majority of centerfire ammo from the big companies in calibers other than 223 and possibly 308 is hunting ammo. Just look at
shelves at the stores. Handgun is not relevant to current conversation. It is not hard to see what there is a lot of boxes of (centerfire rifle) and the majority is not high bc ammo. Now that 6.5 creed is common it is making into the cheap stuff like corelokt and power point and I bet a lot more of that will sell than anything else in years to come

As for what is indicator of long term popularity, by far number 1 is military origin. 223, 308, 30-06. As far as hunting, trends come and go. Historically few rounds with more recoil than 30-06 make top 10 sellers for more than few years. The 7rm and 300 win are really only ones. The 6.5 prc had potemtial to stay is the top seller list - the 6.8W, 7prc, 300 prc are not just based on recoil. So at best if they stick around will be moderately popular in long run. Keep in mind, 20 years ago the wsms were the prcs of today and little before that it was the RUMs. And yes the wsms/runs were chambered by everybody with ammo made by everybody. I was moon-eyed over the new rounds back then like some folks are now with new high bc / fast twist trend. Maybe some younger folks not around or see it. However I am confident a new minutia will come along with a new set of cartridges and we will be lamenting how dumb Hornady was for not expecting it while we rechamber betsy.

Lou

 

[Macintosh]

Its fair to say that certain cartridges are purchased mostly by hunters—270win, 30-30, etc are purchased almost exclusively by hunters. I just bought 100 rounds of 270, that’ll last me several years. Some cartridges like 308 have plenty of hunting volume, plus plenty of shooter volume (I just bought 500 rounds of 308…thats a 1 year supply for me, and its not for hunting). The 6.5cm is another, even as a casual shooter I go through almost 1000 rounds a year. Id argue we wont see another cartridge with the “overnight” success of the 6.5cm that piggybacked on the boom of laser rangefinders becoming available, scopes that dialed accurately becoming more widely available, PRS and the resulting focus on “long range hunting”. So now we have casual prs shooters like me (not registered and therefore not counted in the 6000, yet here I am) buying 6.5cm by the flat at a minimum, plus hunters buying it. I think its safe to say that regardless of which is bigger for a particular cartridge, real success and ubiquity is when you grab BOTH shooters and hunters as the 6.5cm has done.
I dont see the 6.8w dying altogether, but by virtue of being too close to cartridges like the 6.5prc that ARE grabbing both groups, it doesnt seem like it will ever be one of the really common cartridges.

 

[RockAndSage]

Its fair to say that certain cartridges are purchased mostly by hunters—270win, 30-30, etc are purchased almost exclusively by hunters. I just bought 100 rounds of 270, that’ll last me several years. Some cartridges like 308 have plenty of hunting volume, plus plenty of shooter volume (I just bought 500 rounds of 308…thats a 1 year supply for me, and its not for hunting). The 6.5cm is another, even as a casual shooter I go through almost 1000 rounds a year. Id argue we wont see another cartridge with the “overnight” success of the 6.5cm that piggybacked on the boom of laser rangefinders becoming available, scopes that dialed accurately becoming more widely available, PRS and the resulting focus on “long range hunting”. So now we have casual prs shooters like me (not registered and therefore not counted in the 6000, yet here I am) buying 6.5cm by the flat at a minimum, plus hunters buying it. I think its safe to say that regardless of which is bigger for a particular cartridge, real success and ubiquity is when you grab BOTH shooters and hunters as the 6.5cm has done.
I dont see the 6.8w dying altogether, but by virtue of being too close to cartridges like the 6.5prc that ARE grabbing both groups, it doesnt seem like it will ever be one of the really common cartridges.

Great points, especially the piggy-backing thing. I think it's absolutely safe to say that were it not for the tactical precision and then the civilian precision worlds buzzing so hard about 6.5cm then it simply would have never caught on in the hunting world. I'm not sure the reverse would be true though. I have a really hard time seeing a genuinely great cartridge originate in the hunting market, and then get immense buzz in the hunting media, then leading to .mil and PRS adoption. Anything's possible, but I definitely think that's been part of Hornady's success - going from the precision shooting side of things hard, and then attracting chunks of the hunting community over time. Not the reverse.

 

[Gila]

Data shows that the 3 PRCs are not that popular with competitive long range shooters. Take a look at F-open class and you will find that the 284 Win dominates. More matches are being won with the 284 than any other cartridge. The 7 SAUM (Sherman) comes in a distant 2nd. The 6.5 Creedmoor is in the hunt but well behind the sevens. The 6.5 x 284 Norma is no slouch either.

So I think we can safely say that the 6.5 PRC and the 7 PRC are primarily hunting cartridges. That means most of the factory ammo is being bought by hunters. Hornady has to fully support the PRCs or vanish, that simple. Winchester is big enough and has access to resources to keep not only their own cartridges, but all popular cartridges supported. As Lou has stated, there really hasn’t been a problem getting 6.8 Western ammo. The three long range factory loads sold out during hunting season because demand was so high. Actually the 162 mono load and the 170 gr power points went on sale. I picked up 200 rounds for a song…30 something a box. That was last October. The 6.8 Western rifles are selling like hot cakes. CA and Fierce have jumped on the bandwagon and there are others I am sure. Shooters are re-barreling their actions to shoot the 6.8 Western. Pre-fit barrels are so common you can buy them off the shelf.

Other than the “cool” factor and possessing what is to be perceived as the “latest and greatest”, I see no hunting advantages for the “Fudds” to use a 7 PRC. The average Joe or Josephine who work for a living and saves up some vacation time to hunt in the fall, will buy a rifle that feels good at the right price. The popularity of the 280AI, 7-08 and the 7 Rem Mag show just how good those seven cartridges are. The 280AI has about 15 different factory loads, but in a pinch can use the 280. The 7 Rem Mag has around 60 different factory loads available. The 7-08 about 35 factory loads. Logic dictates that the 7 PRC will not be able to pull away very much of that market share.

The 6.8 Western is what the 270 WSM should have been. The 270 WSM came out before the advent of the Low Drag heavy for caliber bullets with slow twist barrels. The 270 Win barrels suffer the same slow twist (1:10”). To solve that dilema, Winchester/Browning has come out with fast twist barrels for the 270 win cartridges. Other rifle makers will most likely follow to drive up sales. That is a smart move really, because that will force ammo makers to increase support for the 270s, including the 6.8 Western. Hornady and other bullet makers will be forced to produce heavier and higher BC bullets in 277 caliber. As a result; the bullet selection will include higher BC bullets for the 270s. The 6.8 Western is a winner no doubt it.

 

[bmart2622]

So because of the 7Rm, 280AI and 7mm08 there is no need for the 7 PRC?? Yet the 6.8W is a godsend despite what a 270 and 270WSM offer?

 

[Balderdash]

So because of the 7Rm, 280AI and 7mm08 there is no need for the 7 PRC?? Yet the 6.8W is a godsend despite what a 270 and 270WSM offer?

Easy now, don't start making too much sense. If you really want to get things going, mention that the 6.8W should've been a .284. Or that Jack was long on writing skill but short on ballistics.

 

[Unckebob]

Yeah...mostly I'm seeing confirmation bias of a dedicated shooter clouding personal opinion. Not buying it. I think it's time for you to get some actual data on cartridge sales and share it with us.

If 450 Bushmaster is a "niche" cartridge in terms of sales, it just simply would not be in Hornady's top 5 centerfire cartridges sold.

36k USPSA members and 6000 PRS shooters are just not sustaining the US private/consumer ammo industrial complex. A couple of new boxes of ammo sold with each new gun sold in the US will account for multiples of the ammo they collectively run through.

Don't confuse what's being said here - Hornady's shooting culture may be driving their design excellence and relative commercial success for new cartridges. But until I see industry data on cartridge sales, I'm just not buying your argument that "shooters" buy more rifle ammo than the nation's hunting community.

I was at a Dallas area sporting goods store today looking for some shorts. When I stopped by the ammo aisle: Texas Hunters are their target audience.
1) They had so many hunting loads for 6.5 CM that I lost count at 10.
2) Lots of 270, 308, 243 hunting loads
3) They must sell a lot of 450 BM ammo.

Other Observations:
1) Three Hornady loads for 6.5 PRC (2 target loads)
2) One box of 7PRC, No 300PRC

From internet and YouTube activity, one would expect the PRC's to get a huge amount of shelfspace.

 

[Bfish22]

Not sure why it has to be a contest, people should choose whatever gets them excited about a cartridge. Hunters have different needs and wants and should choose based on those.

But if it was, the 7 prc definitely has more momentum going for it at the moment. Just following tikkas Facebook page and reading comments from shot show posts, every other comment was people asking for the 7prc, not one request for the 6.8. The 6.8 seemed to peak at its release during covid, when that was the only ammo available for people purchasing a new factory rifle. Since then, other than a handful of people on this forum, I haven’t sensed any real excitement towards the cartridge. The prc despite coming out a year or two later, already has more factory ammo options and premium brass has been available since last summer. I load for a buddy’s 6.8 and personal 7 prc so I have a little experience in both. Definitely looking forward to some decent brass becoming available for the 6.8.

 

[Gila]

I believe I was misunderstood by some….production rifles are getting a faster twist for the 270 Winchester. The 270 WSMs will probably not get a faster twist because there is no point in doing so. The 270 WSM never did take off. There isn’t enough of a velocity gain over the 270 Winchester as far as factory ammo is concerned. There is a slight, like small velocity advantage with some 145 to 150 grain bullets. Not enough to make a difference though. The 6.8 Western SAAMI chamber is optimized to shoot 165-175 gr low drags at a very respectable velocity with a 1:7.5“ twist. And, the 6.8 Western is a short action cartridge.

I was surprised to see in the dataset of 100 F-Class shooters that there wasn’t anyone shooting a 7 PRC. Apparently F-Class shooters don’t want a long action cartridge and that much recoil. Too much gun for most of the competitive shooting sports anyway. Apparently some F-Class shooters are necking up 6.5 PRC brass to a 7mm x 6.5mmPRC. I don’t think very many shooters will move away from the 284 Win though. On the hunting side of things I will just say that trying to beat out the 280AI, 7mm-08, 7 Rem Mag is a daunting task. Some hunters (me included) are trending to a short action with less recoil in a lightweight rifle.

 

[Gila]

Not sure why it has to be a contest, people should choose whatever gets them excited about a cartridge. Hunters have different needs and wants and should choose based on those.

But if it was, the 7 prc definitely has more momentum going for it at the moment. Just following tikkas Facebook page and reading comments from shot show posts, every other comment was people asking for the 7prc, not one request for the 6.8. The 6.8 seemed to peak at its release during covid, when that was the only ammo available for people purchasing a new factory rifle. Since then, other than a handful of people on this forum, I haven’t sensed any real excitement towards the cartridge. The prc despite coming out a year or two later, already has more factory ammo options and premium brass has been available since last summer. I load for a buddy’s 6.8 and personal 7 prc so I have a little experience in both. Definitely looking forward to some decent brass becoming available for the 6.8.

Tikka will most likely offer the 280AI before the 7 PRC. I seriously doubt Tikka will offer either one though. Hand loaders tend to load those two cartridges “long” which won’t fit into the standard Tikka magazines. There are so many rifles chambered in 6.8 Western now: Winchester, Browning, Fierce, Christiansen Arms, Seekins. I doubt that Savage, Ruger or Tikka could pull very much of of that market share at this time. If the 6.8 Western continues to take off, Tikka could chamber for it, but I think that would be years away if it does happen.

Currently, the number of factory ammo offerings are the same between the 6.8 Western and the 7 PRC. The 7 PRC is a long action cartridge which is a disadvantage. The 6.8 Western is a short action cartridge. The 280 AI is gaining even more traction. The 7 Rem Mag has been at the top. Both of those long action 7s are tough acts to follow in a production rifle. The 6.8 Western fills a “niche”. The 7 PRC does not. The 6.8 Western fills the niche as a short action cartridge with magnum performance and lower recoil. My opinion is that the 7 PRC will eventually be right along side the 28 Nosler. But hey what ever blows your socks off.

 

[Bfish22]

Tikka will most likely offer the 280AI before the 7 PRC. I seriously doubt Tikka will offer either one though. Hand loaders tend to load those two cartridges “long” which won’t fit into the standard Tikka magazines. There are so many rifles chambered in 6.8 Western now: Winchester, Browning, Fierce, Christiansen Arms, Seekins. I doubt that Savage, Ruger or Tikka could pull very much of of that market share at this time. If the 6.8 Western continues to take off, Tikka could chamber for it, but I think that would be years away if it does happen.

Currently, the number of factory ammo offerings are the same between the 6.8 Western and the 7 PRC. The 7 PRC is a long action cartridge which is a disadvantage. The 6.8 Western is a short action cartridge. The 280 AI is gaining even more traction. The 7 Rem Mag has been at the top. Both of those long action 7s are tough acts to follow in a production rifle. The 6.8 Western fills a “niche”. The 7 PRC does not. The 6.8 Western fills the niche as a short action cartridge with magnum performance and lower recoil. My opinion is that the 7 PRC will eventually be right along side the 28 Nosler.

Guess we still agree to disagree. I’d bet that on this forum, there are likely more members with tikkas with aftermarket 7 prc barrels than all 6.8 western rifles, factory or aftermarket combined. A factory tikka 7prc would sell like hotcakes.
And 90 percent of the handloaders that post about their loads for the 7prc, are using 175-180 gr bullets that the 7 prc was designed for, which fit perfectly in tikkas mags. 180 Berger vld touching lands is 3.34” in a Sammi chamber. Don’t know why you keep ignoring these facts.

Nosler and weatherby also came out with factory 7 prc ammo giving the prc the edge to current factory offerings, expensive but offerings nonetheless.

 

[OKHunter84]

Man who really cares ? They keep recreating things over and over just to keep you buying new things. 300 PRC doesn't really do anything for a hunter more then a 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 weatherby etc. Heck a fast twist 300 win mag with a large mag box like several factory rifles have can shoot 230 bergers and there won't be much difference then a 300 PRC until you get to ranges beyond ethical hunting.

6.8 western is just a 270 WSM recreated with less recoil and higher BC bullets. A 7prc isn't that much more advanced then a handful of 7mm cartridges.

The main difference is that Hornady really pushes and supports their offerings.

 

[Bfish22]

Man who really cares ? They keep recreating things over and over just to keep you buying new things. 300 PRC doesn't really do anything for a hunter more then a 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 weatherby etc. Heck a fast twist 300 win mag with a large mag box like several factory rifles have can shoot 230 bergers and there won't be much difference then a 300 PRC until you get to ranges beyond ethical hunting.

6.8 western is just a 270 WSM recreated with less recoil and higher BC bullets. A 7prc isn't that much more advanced then a handful of 7mm cartridges.

The main difference is that Hornady really pushes and supports their offerings.

Maybe it’s the offseason and we’re all going a little stir-crazy and can’t find anything productive to do so we just argue about random stuff to pass the time…..

 

[BCsteve]

Tikka will most likely offer the 280AI before the 7 PRC. I seriously doubt Tikka will offer either one though. Hand loaders tend to load those two cartridges “long” which won’t fit into the standard Tikka magazines. There are so many rifles chambered in 6.8 Western now: Winchester, Browning, Fierce, Christiansen Arms, Seekins. I doubt that Savage, Ruger or Tikka could pull very much of of that market share at this time. If the 6.8 Western continues to take off, Tikka could chamber for it, but I think that would be years away if it does happen.

Currently, the number of factory ammo offerings are the same between the 6.8 Western and the 7 PRC. The 7 PRC is a long action cartridge which is a disadvantage. The 6.8 Western is a short action cartridge. The 280 AI is gaining even more traction. The 7 Rem Mag has been at the top. Both of those long action 7s are tough acts to follow in a production rifle. The 6.8 Western fills a “niche”. The 7 PRC does not. The 6.8 Western fills the niche as a short action cartridge with magnum performance and lower recoil. My opinion is that the 7 PRC will eventually be right along side the 28 Nosler. But hey what ever blows your socks off.

People have said that Tikka announced at SHOT show that the 7PRC is coming out this year.

 

[bmart2622]

Hmmm, the 6.5 PRC and 6.5 Saum are both short action, light recoiling magnums and both more popular than the 6.8 W