Is the 6.8 western gaining traction or did the 7mm prc finish it off?

[Lou270]

The 6 8 western was DOA when it hit the market. The biggest solution to a problem that didn't exist.

Lack of long range bullets and now the prc is its death nail providing a quicker more humane death then it could have had in its own.

Lol. And somehow alll the prcs are not solutions to problems that didn’t exist. Companies make money by introducing new things and convincing people to buy them. Plenty of good long range hunting 277 bullets. The main downside to 6.8W is lack of brass as Winchester selling all the ammo they make and none left over in any caliber let alone 6.8W. Good news for 6.8W is ADG is making 6.8W brass this year

Lou

 

[Formidilosus]

What that tells me is that the demand is higher for 6.8 ammo but not so much for the 7 PRC.

That is not remotely what it is. Hornady supports its chamberings, something no one else does.

 

[Gila]

I have little or no interest in either the 6.8 western or the 7 prc, I just glanced at Midway's ammo selection. Both cartridges have six results.

The 6.8 has one 'in stock," the other five are either "out of stock/no backorder" or "coming soon."

The 7 prc has five "in stock" and one "coming soon.'

The 6.8 power point listed as "coming soon" is "no longer available" on Brownells.

Brownell’s new software will report “no longer available” if their software can’t restock an item within a certain timeframe. But it doesn’t necessary mean that the item is no longer made or distributed.

 

[Slick8]

Lol. And somehow alll the prcs are not solutions to problems that didn’t exist. Companies make money by introducing new things and convincing people to buy them. Plenty of good long range hunting 277 bullets. The main downside to 6.8W is lack of brass as Winchester selling all the ammo they make and none left over in any caliber let alone 6.8W. Good news for 6.8W is ADG is making 6.8W brass this year

Lou

I 100% agree with that. The 7 prc does nothing that the other 7mm chamberings don't already do. I feel like they left some meat on the bone and was hoping they were going to simply rebrand the GunWerks 7LRH. But, Hornaday supports their products and is such a marketing giant that gun makers are quick to jump on board.

My thoughts on the 6.8 are more caliber related. With so many great 6.5 and 7mm bullets being offered there's little to no gain in adding the 6.8. Just too big a mountain to make the climb worth it imo.

I look at this way. YETI is a marketing giant that happens to make coolers. Hornady is much the same, a marketing giant that happens to make ammo and struck gold with the Creedmoor which has led them to wheee they are now.

 

[Lou270]

I think you are reading that wrong. It shows that they are doing limited runs of 6.8 Western because it isn't nearly as popular as they hoped it would be. FAR better bullet selection in .284 than .277 and it will always be that way. I bet there are 25 7PRC rifles sold to every single 6.8 Western. It'll be glaringly obvious further down the road.

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

Im not disagreeing totally with your statement but 6.8W ammo is always available. There is no shortage of it. Go look on ammoseek However there can be dry spells of the 165 ablr load or 175 tgk load at times. I suspect this is because they source bullets from Sierra and Nosler and those guys went MIA for a while right in Covid when 6.8W came out. This is the “flagship” 6.8W ammo like the eldx from hornady. There was a good supply initially but for while only thing could get was 162 copper or 170pp. The good news is Nosler seems like catching up and 165 ablr load has been regular. There was a bunch on 175 tgk last year but not seen lately So, Sierra still seems to be behind probably because they make a lot of matchking bullets for military applications and do hunting bullet runs when can. I dont think Hornady does much with Military at least on big scale for now but I guarantee they would if got a contract

Lou

 

[Formidilosus]

I 100% agree with that. The 7 prc does nothing that the other 7mm chamberings don't already do.

You mean other than offering readily available factory match ammo with some of the best bullets made, with corresponding rifles and chambers cut correctly to get that performance?

 

[Slick8]

You mean other than offering readily available factory match ammo with some of the best bullets made, with corresponding rifles and chambers cut correctly to get that performance?

That's not speaking to the perfoamce of the 7 PRC as it relates to other 7s but rather Hornadys commitment or ability to strongly support their offerings.

Having said that I currently own a 6.5 Creed, 7 SAUM and I'm I'm considering adding a 7 PRC. The Saum is a light weight short barreled rig. If I build a 7 prc it will be a long range boomer.

 

[Formidilosus]

That's not speaking to the perfoamce of the 7 PRC as it relates to other 7s but rather Hornadys commitment or ability to strongly support their chamberings.

No, however that is what it offers- just like the 22 and 6mm ARC, 6mm and 6.5 CM, 6.5 PRC, and the 300 PRC.

@Gila stated it was a chicken or egg thing- that’s not true. No one will buy a car no matter how awesome it is, if you can’t buy fuel for it. If fuel is readily available, people will buy cars that use that fuel.

 

[Gila]

Im not disagreeing totally with your statement but 6.8W ammo is always available. There is no shortage of it. Go look on ammoseek However there can be dry spells of the 165 ablr load or 175 tgk load at times. I suspect this is because they source bullets from Sierra and Nosler and those guys went MIA for a while right in Covid when 6.8W came out. This is the “flagship” 6.8W ammo like the eldx from hornady. There was a good supply initially but for while only thing could get was 162 copper or 170pp. The good news is Nosler seems like catching up and 165 ablr load has been regular. There was a bunch on 175 tgk last year but not seen lately So, Sierra still seems to be behind probably because they make a lot of matchking bullets for military applications and do hunting bullet runs when can. I dont think Hornady does much with Military at least on big scale for now but I guarantee they would if got a contract

Lou

The ammo was available until just before hunting season I believe when they started selling out everywhere. Winchester primers have not been available for quite a while though. After hunting season ended around the 1st of the year, I was able to buy 165 LRABS and 175 game changers.

 

[RockAndSage]

No, however that is what it offers- just like the 22 and 6mm ARC, 6mm and 6.5 CM, 6.5 PRC, and the 300 PRC.

@Gila stated it was a chicken or egg thing- that’s not true. No one will buy a car no matter how awesome it is, if you can’t buy fuel for it. If fuel is readily available, people will buy cars that use that fuel.

And now .22CM. I'd love to know the behind-the-scenes work Hornady puts in with manufacturers well in advance of a new cartridge release, because the coordination seems spectacular.

When Win/Browning launched the 6.8 Western it looked like there'd be great manufacturer support. I was looking at having a custom rifle built, and reached out to Proof to see if they'd be doing a .277 barrel in a faster twist rate for the 6.8W, and was flat told they had no plans to (which seems to have changed eventually).

But - they had .22 ARC and 7PRC barrels ready to go when Hornady launched those cartridges, almost same-day.

What was interesting is that, when asking around quietly within the industry, several times it was intimated to me that something better than 6.8W was coming out from Hornady, and that I should just wait. Not long after that 7PRC SAAMI specs came out.

Not sure how much of what happened with 6.8W was Hornady icing out their competition behind the scenes via relationships, vs just vastly better marketing and support and simply better efforts at working with manufacturers across multiple industry segments, but they've kicked the daylights out of Nosler and Win/Browning for years now. It's impressive.

It's also why I'm not interested in Nosler cartridges or 6.8W at this point - if something like Weatherby came out now, Hornady would leave them stillborn.

 

[Lou270]

The ammo was available until just before hunting season I believe when they started selling out everywhere. Winchester primers have not been available for quite a while though. After hunting season ended around the 1st of the year, I was able to buy 165 LRABS and 175 game changers.

Cabelas/bpro around me (Dallas) had 165 ablr and 175 tgk last year. The 175 tgk sold out in hunting season and not seen back but the 165 ablr has been getting stocked regularly. They had the 170 browning silver load for a while as well but that was bought up too and not seem more. Must be insecure prc fans buying the ammo since according to this thead the 6.8W is dead

Lou

 

[Formidilosus]

Not sure how much of what happened with 6.8W was Hornady icing out their competition behind the scenes via relationships, vs just vastly better marketing and support and simply better efforts at working with manufacturers across multiple industry segments.

There’s no shenanigans- Hornady is lead by shooters which is why there products work so well.
I can’t shoot a rifle that doesn’t have ammo available, and even if it did- why would I choose one that has 165-175gr bullets with BC’s lower than both 6.5mm and 7mm bullets that are available in every gun store in America?

Only fudds (and I don’t mean that negatively in this instance), “like” .277 bullets. I do too as .277 is largely an American only thing, but the fact is that the bullets are a compromise relative to both 6.5 and 7mm, and are in general on par with the better 6mm’s yet have massively more recoil, therefor shooters won’t adopt it, and hunters don’t shoot enough to support them. Winchester/Browning is lead by people that not only aren’t “shooters”, they’re not even legit hunters. It’s something that “hunters” can’t grasp- shooters actually buy and shoot ammo, hunters don’t.

 

[Lou270]

And now .22CM. I'd love to know the behind-the-scenes work Hornady puts in with manufacturers well in advance of a new cartridge release, because the coordination seems spectacular.

When Win/Browning launched the 6.8 Western it looked like there'd be great manufacturer support. I was looking at having a custom rifle built, and reached out to Proof to see if they'd be doing a .277 barrel in a faster twist rate for the 6.8W, and was flat told they had no plans to (which seems to have changed eventually).

But - they had .22 ARC and 7PRC barrels ready to go when Hornady launched those cartridges, almost same-day.

What was interesting is that, when asking around quietly within the industry, several times it was intimated to me that something better than 6.8W was coming out from Hornady, and that I should just wait. Not long after that 7PRC SAAMI specs came out.

Not sure how much of what happened with 6.8W was Hornady icing out their competition behind the scenes via relationships, vs just vastly better marketing and support and simply better efforts at working with manufacturers across multiple industry segments, but they've kicked the daylights out of Nosler and Win/Browning for years now. It's impressive.

It's also why I'm not interested in Nosler cartridges or 6.8W at this point - if something like Weatherby came out now, Hornady would leave them stillborn.

What is left out here is that Win/Browning do not need industry support. The brand have their own rifle lines so they do not need to coordinate anything to get support. All of this custom stuff is drop in the bucket compared to what the majors sell.

What Hornady does do is they use cheap to manufacture cup and core bullets with high bcs that are easy to get to sboot accurately and team up with Ruger that makes a very inexpensive but nice rifle in the American line.

The marketing they do is tell people their soft bullets are all around bullets and for the most part they are good enough. People get stars in their eyes over the high BC and rationalize away any deficiencies in terminal performance. Hornady themselves will tell you to use the CX bullet for Elk if you call them but listen to one of their podcasts and all they will talk about is the high BC of their match bullets. I am not talking about pros/cons of match bullets for hunting so nobody get panties in a wad. People who know what they are doing use them effectively. The masses who have no idea buy the marketing. That is the miracle of Hornady marketing nobody can figure out. You absolutely cannot make a bonded or thicket jacket bullet with as high of bc as a thin jacketed bullet. Simple bullets are easier and faster to make. If Win would put a long boattail on their xp line and streamline ogive some they would be in same ballpark as eldx but apparently they can’t figure that out

Lou

 

[Lou270]

There’s no shenanigans- Hornady is lead by shooters which is why there products work so well.
I can’t shoot a rifle that doesn’t have ammo available, and even if it did- why would I choose one that has 165-175gr bullets with BC’s lower than both 6.5mm and 7mm bullets that are available in every gun store in America?

Only fudds (and I don’t mean that negatively in this instance), “like” .277 bullets. I do too as .277 is largely an American only thing, but the fact is that the bullets are a compromise relative to both 6.5 and 7mm, and are in general on par with the better 6mm’s yet have massively more recoil, therefor shooters won’t adopt it, and hunters don’t shoot enough to support them. Winchester/Browning is lead by people that not only aren’t “shooters”, they’re not even legit hunters. It’s something that “hunters” can’t grasp- shooters actually buy and shoot ammo, hunters don’t.

I agree with this. Though I will say hunters are a far bigger market than prs / fclass ‘shooters’ that like the 6.5/7mm. This is why the old 270 has done well for so long and until the 6.5 cm came along no 7mm or 6.5 was as popular. Winchester markets the 6.8W on a lot of the “deer hunting” tv shows like Drury and several others. This is probably not the average poster on RS but if you look at fb page followers there is 1M+ followers on some of these. It is why folks can’t understand why clunkers like the 350 legend are doing so well (which by the way rivals or betters any of the prcs in sales). Since talking 277,I wonder if things will change on the ‘shooter’ side once the 6.8x51 deploys?

Lou

 

[LongWayAround]

For a period during the COVID shortage, 6.8W was one of the few loads that I saw on the shelf. Now, the shelves are mostly well stocked with common cartridges.

If your preferred flavor isn't on the shelf when others are, I wouldn't see that as a testament to popularity.

 

[Gila]

I will say that Winchester got it right with the 6.8 Western. With the SAAMi chamber I can load the 175s 15 back from Jam and have plenty of powder space. The COAL comes in around 2.96”. With the 165 LRAB going 15 back, the boat tail is just below the neck/shoulder junction with a COAL of 2.915.

The only advantage I see to the 7 PRC is if you want to shoot 190 -195 gr low drags. But you will have to hand load those bullets. The 284 Win, WSM, SAUM etc. will rock and roll with a 180 VLD. I really like loading and shooting the 284 Win. I am anxious to get out and do some range work with the 6.8 Western…

 

[Formidilosus]

I agree with this. Though I will say hunters are a far bigger market than prs / fclass ‘shooters’ that like the 6.5/7mm.

In total numbers of people yes- in amount of bullets and rounds sold and shot- especially for a new cartridge, not even close. You have people right here bragging about how they have 100-200 rounds and that will last a decade for the rifle. Thats a single day for people that shoot.

This is why the old 270 has done well for so long and until the 6.5 cm came along no 7mm or 6.5 was as popular.

Correct- because every single one of those 6.5 and 7mm introductions were as “hunting” rounds, designed and made for traditional hunters. Hunters don’t shoot. The bullets and cartridge designs that work best for shooters, generally work great for hunting. The reverse is not true at all.

It is why folks can’t understand why clunkers like the 350 legend are doing so well (which by the way rivals or betters any of the prcs in sales).

Everyone knows why 350 Legend is a success- it was one of the few remaining hunting niches left. When those states allow modern cartridges to be used for deer hunting, it too will fade

Since talking 277,I wonder if things will change on the ‘shooter’ side once the 6.8x51 deploys?

Lou

I highly doubt it. The 6.8x51mm is a relatively poor design just like the 260 rem, and the projectiles that will fit in it for SA rifles suck. You get velocity with 80,000psi ammo, but with low BC bullets.

 

[Gila]

From what I understand, 6 Creed was developed by SnipersHide. Horizon Firearms developed and produced the 22 Creed.

Hornady shooters must not reload very much because their dies, brass sucks swamp water! Their reloading manual is about as useful as teeth on a chicken.

 

[Macintosh]

I agree with this. Though I will say hunters are a far bigger market than prs / fclass ‘shooters’ that like the 6.5/7mm. This is why the old 270 has done well…

I dont think this is correct. Prs/fclass shooters may be fewer in number, but hunters buy much less ammo. One needs look no further than pittman-robertson funding data—I have seen the statistic cited a number of times that 75% is from some form of target shooting, not hunting-related. I am a casual shooter by the standards of the folks I shoot matches with, and I still go through as much ammo in a day of shooting as I do in 2 years of hunting and practicing for hunting.
I think the “old” 270win is still easily available because it had a 100-ish year head start and people are still buying ammo for all those rifles. I know when I buy 270 win ammo the selection is consistent, but it’s never as large as the popular cartridges for range use.

 

[Balderdash]

Was looking to maybe buy a new rifle, I have a fierce 6.5 prc. It's between the 6.8 western or 7mm prc. I know there isn't alot of difference ballistically but the 6?8 is slightly better with170 gr eol vs the 156 in the 6.5 prc. Which brought me to the 7mm prc. But honestly as I get older I much prefer milder recoil. It will be mostly for deer/mule deer game so I know all will work but one day I'd love to maybe try to hunt an elk. Just getting feedback on cartridge and components/ammo. I reload so it's not as big of a deal but I'd rather not have to use Winchester brass. I've heard adg and Peterson are planning on making brass but no eta

I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned more over 3 pages, but other than just wanting another rifle, there's not really any reason to get a 6.8W when you have a 6.5PRC. Any percieved difference in on game performance is going to be attributional over actual. From what I've seen, 6.5PRC ammo is more readily available and costs less per box. Great bullet choices abound, as does quality brass.

Nothing against the 6.8W as a hunting round, as I'm sure it will be effective on game; however, objectively, when compared to the 6.5 PRC, a 6.8W is the sisyphean approach to shooting a cartridge in this bore diameter and power tier enough to become proficient at the longer ranges these cartridges were ostensibly designed for.