Is it necessary to have an alpha glass spotter for bowhunting mule deer?

[tdhanses]

Good point. It's a slippery slope, isn't it? Did you find that the Kowas were superior optically to your previous Swaro spotter?

Superior, no, equal, yes. I had the 80mm hd ats with the wa eyepiece with a max zoom of 50x, my little 553 has a max of 45x and was every bit as good minus the short fov and it does fall off in low light sooner but not much really. I later got the 773 and it’s great, the 553 is a tad better but it should be.

 

[JustinPNW]

Superior, no, equal, yes. I had the 80mm hd ats with the wa eyepiece with a max zoom of 50x, my little 553 has a max of 45x and was every bit as good minus the short fov and it does fall off in low light sooner but not much really. I later got the 773 and it’s great, the 553 is a tad better but it should be.

Good to know. That 553 sounds like a damned good option and I'll definitely look into it.

Since you mentioned low light...

I don't know how others use their spotters, but I find it most useful as a means to confirm that a suspicious object in my binos is a deer or to determine legality of bucks during daylight hours.

I don't use my spotter near first/last light, as I am spot and stalk bow hunting and often times, I find that:

A) If I can't resolve the deer in my binos around last light, then it's probably too far away to mount a reasonable stalk in time for the kill to be during legal hours.

B) During first light hours, the muleys are usually still up and about feeding in the center or at the edge of open areas or ag fields or they're beginning to move back to bedding in the sage, so a lot of times, they're visible with the naked eye and clearly visibly using binos.

Maybe I'm doing it all wrong, as I'm still new and learning and don't have a more experienced hunter as a mentor, but this has caused me to think that the low-light capability of spotters isn't particularly important to me.

I have considered going to a larger objective over the 55-65mm only because I had thought that the daytime light gathering will also improve image clarity at higher zoom levels. This is where I find the biggest disadvantage with my current Diamondback spotter. It's pretty much useless beyond about 30X even in broad daylight.

 

[tdhanses]

Good to know. That 553 sounds like a damned good option and I'll definitely look into it.

Since you mentioned low light...

I don't know how others use their spotters, but I find it most useful as a means to confirm that a suspicious object in my binos is a deer or to determine legality of bucks during daylight hours.

I don't use my spotter near first/last light, as I am spot and stalk bow hunting and often times, I find that:

A) If I can't resolve the deer in my binos around last light, then it's probably too far away to mount a reasonable stalk in time for the kill to be during legal hours.

B) During first light hours, the muleys are usually still up and about feeding in the center or at the edge of open areas or ag fields or they're beginning to move back to bedding in the sage, so a lot of times, they're visible with the naked eye and clearly visibly using binos.

Maybe I'm doing it all wrong, as I'm still new and learning and don't have a more experienced hunter as a mentor, but this has caused me to think that the low-light capability of spotters isn't particularly important to me.

I have considered going to a larger objective over the 55-65mm only because I had thought that the daytime light gathering will also improve image clarity at higher zoom levels. This is where I find the biggest disadvantage with my current Diamondback spotter. It's pretty much useless beyond about 30X even in broad daylight.

The little 55mm Kowa does well because of the lenses used, it punches above its size. For hunting I rarely take the 77 as i use my spotter for verification only and don’t really scan a ton with it but do scan with it. Id say i use binos on a tripod 90% of the time.

To me the 55 has an outstanding crisp and sharp image even at 45x where most of the mid tier will fall off halfway through their zoom range. It also is half the size and a significant reduction in weight but really it’s the bulk reduction that keeps it in my pack.

If you can handle the short fov you’ll really like the little 55.

Many people try to glass right at first light and if not on an animal glass till dark, you’ll still be able to do this with a 55 but you’ll lose a couple mins of detail earlier then if you had an 77, 85, 88 etc.

In daytime you’ll not see a difference imo.

 

[JustinPNW]

The little 55mm Kowa does well because of the lenses used, it punches above its size. For hunting I rarely take the 77 as i use my spotter for verification only and don’t really scan a ton with it but do scan with it. Id say i use binos on a tripod 90% of the time.

To me the 55 has an outstanding crisp and sharp image even at 45x where most of the mid tier will fall off halfway through their zoom range. It also is half the size and a significant reduction in weight but really it’s the bulk reduction that keeps it in my pack.

If you can handle the short fov you’ll really like the little 55.

Many people try to glass right at first light and if not on an animal glass till dark, you’ll still be able to do this with a 55 but you’ll lose a couple mins of detail earlier then if you had an 77, 85, 88 etc.

In daytime you’ll not see a difference imo.

That is a damned solid endorsement! It's officially now on my ever-shortening list... Thanks!

 

[rclouse79]

Does it take a top shelf bottle of booze to get drunk? No, but it is probably more enjoyable and less likely to give you a headache.

 

[JustinPNW]

Does it take a top shelf bottle of booze to get drunk? No, but it is probably more enjoyable and less likely to give you a headache.

Hahaha well played. You win and this is perhaps the best analogy I've heard in a long time!

 

[Dirtscoots]

Can you actually make out antler detail with the 15x? If so, what range are you limited to in order to get a confident view?

I won’t shoot dinks but I’m far from a trophy hunter. I spent the first part of the season spotting bucks and getting my spotter out because at 1000 yards I couldn’t make a for sure what it had for horns. Towards the end of the season I quite putting the spotting scope on questionable bucks in the 15s around 1000 yards. I would just be trying to grow horns on a baby fork or spike. I’m not trying to take away from the importance of a good spotter. I would love to have a bigger one then I got. I would just try to find a buddy that has a quality set of 15s that will let you do some glassing. I have one of those buddies, be aware it cost you a lot of money.

 

[JustinPNW]

I won’t shoot dinks but I’m far from a trophy hunter. I spent the first part of the season spotting bucks and getting my spotter out because at 1000 yards I couldn’t make a for sure what it had for horns. Towards the end of the season I quite putting the spotting scope on questionable bucks in the 15s around 1000 yards. I would just be trying to grow horns on a baby fork or spike. I’m not trying to take away from the importance of a good spotter. I would love to have a bigger one then I got. I would just try to find a buddy that has a quality set of 15s that will let you do some glassing. I have one of those buddies, be aware it cost you a lot of money.

Makes sense. 1000 yards is still really good from a 15x.

And yeah, I have one of those buddies too. He doesn't have 15's, but his gear is what convinced me to buy alpha glass for my 10's! The way this thread is pushing me though, I'm going to beat him out on spotters...

 

[Mhopper5]

Top tier spotting scopes are not necessarily only for trophy hunting.

Some folks use top tier spotting scopes to determine what they saw in their top tier binoculars. Cannot tell you how many times I have used my spotting to confirm or deny that the "branch" I am seeing is actually a branch or if it is a antler or a tine or some other body part.

Not directed at anyone specifically...
Some distances thrown around on confirming and/or scoring an animal can be misleading. What is often not told is the animal position in relation to vegetation as well as the lighting. It is very easy to get a feel for an animal under favorable lighting and with it in the open. It can be significantly more difficult when the animal is tucked up under some thick vegetation or is behind thick vegetation.

Last year I was out scouting for Coues and found a mule deer "doe" with my SLC 15s at about 750-800 yards. "She" was tucked up under thick vegetation. Watched "her" for a good while and moved on. Checked the "doe" out from a different angle, about the same distance, with my SLC 15s. "She" was still hanging out and not moving. Threw on my STX 95 and looked at the "doe" near max magnification while keeping the image clear; she was tucked in tight and there were lots of branches. The "doe" eventually turned "her" head and "she" became a 170" class desert mule deer.

Despite having alpha glass (binoculars and spotting scope) and extremely favorable lighting conditions, I could not differentiate the rack from the branches until the buck turned his head; all under 800 yards. So an 8X in this instance likely would have a hunter passing since it was a "doe" when in reality it was a very nice desert mule deer; of course I was scouting for Coues so no tag.

Colorado this year, my buddy was fixed on a huge buck that was bedded down mid day. I have to give him credit as he kinked his neck through the straight vortex spotter using his steal leg tripod with his scope squeezed in the gun vice head. He painted a verbal Monet as he described the weight and spread of this record buck and described in detail how he was going to stalk it. I finally heard enough and had to see for myself so I got the Leica 83 out and zeroed in. Within 1 second I found the sage bush he was looking at. I said “yup, he’s a brute. Don’t take your eye off of him.” Then I proceed to look for deer on the rest of the mountain now that he was tied up, and soon would not be able to turn his head side to side after his neck job.

Same guy earlier that day:
My wife, using 10x42 ultravids spotted a doe hidden quite well about 1000 yards out. He looked at her and said in a snooty tone “you found it with those?” He was surprised because he was rocking the 15x vortex freehand which in his mind he should have found it first.

My typical setup is 7x42 ultravids on tripod and a Leica spotter. The wife runs backup with 10x42 ultravids on tripod. We work pretty good as a team. Not much goes unnoticed.

 

[Seeknelk]

It totally depends on terrain but yeah I use a Kowa 883 or whatever is the angled version. I pack it everywhere, ESPECIALLY in the steep ,giant nasty mountains because I've had too many times where I glass a solid framed buck and never knew exactly what it was or whether it was worth a giant drop in elevation and brush busting or planning another day off to go back in after him.
It's fairly heavy but so am I. I just do more squats in the winter. In big huge basins with a lot of brush I actually glass quite a bit with the spotter. If it's more of a prairie or rolling country hunt then a guy can often simply run closer to judge with binos. So for me I need a spotter muley hunting. Oh , I guess I am looking for the real old stud bucks. Hate to kill the up and comers in my region but that's just me, other areas have way more deer.

 

[Vaultman]

I've got low-mid cost binos... (Leupold BX4) and on a good tripod I use them 80-90 percent of the time I am glassing and the high end spotter I have (swaro atx 65mm) gets the last 10% of time. And some of that is just because I brought it and want to use it.
Do not get me wrong it is nice to have a top tier spotter, but I'd leave it behind in exchange for mid-tier binos every time.

I hunt Eastern OR. I used to hunt Eastern WA, but not in the open plains, just up near Chewelah, Colville, and Mt. Spokane. YMMV in the open plains but I've been through there a lot, and still think I would go with binos and a good tripod setup 1st. (Keep in mind if you get a spotter later you will need a tripod anyway!)

Edited for spelling.

 

[JustinPNW]

Thanks guys for the additional insight.

I’m not too worried about the weight, as I carry far heavier gear far further and higher in my climbing adventures.

Good to hear from someone who has hunting eastern WA. I agree the binos are the most critical piece of gear by far and I use my spotter about the same as you…maybe because I paid for it and feel compelled like you mentioned lol.

I’ve got a good tripod setup so I think I’m solid there with the alpha binos. Now it’s just the scope…

Since I last posted on this thread, I think I’ve narrowed it down to a Leica APO-Televid 82, Swaro ATX 85, or a Kowa 883. Just need to be patient now and watched the classifieds.


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[LostInIdaho]

I have a pair of Meopta Bino 15s that I use before any spotter not named Kowa or Swaro. My spotters get little use unless I'm in flat or rolling terrain.