Is it necessary to have an alpha glass spotter for bowhunting mule deer?

[JustinPNW]

I'm in the camp that a spotter isn't necessary at all. My experience has been that sub-alpha spotters aren't worth owning, unless you just want more weight in your pack for exercise. Get a top end spotter, or don't bother wasting pack weight and money on something that's borderline useless in all but ideal lighting conditions.

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PathFinder, doesn’t that depend on specific use to a certain extent though? For example, one buck I tried to stalk a couple weekends ago was unable to be discerned as legal or not via binos and that was both for my Vipers and my partner’s Leica Geovid 3200.com’s both in 10x from tripods. In this case, both of us took our our spotters and we’re both able to independently confirm that he was a 2x3 and so I proceeded with the stalk.

Even given the poor quality of my Diamondback spotter, I wouldn’t have been able to tell if I didn’t have it with me.

Thoughts?

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Bingo. No amount of money will help you see through a mirage.

High quality spotter are only useful to trophy hunters IMO. I can see whether a mule deer is legal from over a half mile away with my 8x bins on a good mount. The good mount is the key there.

Top tier spotting scopes are not necessarily only for trophy hunting.

Some folks use top tier spotting scopes to determine what they saw in their top tier binoculars. Cannot tell you how many times I have used my spotting to confirm or deny that the "branch" I am seeing is actually a branch or if it is a antler or a tine or some other body part.

Not directed at anyone specifically...
Some distances thrown around on confirming and/or scoring an animal can be misleading. What is often not told is the animal position in relation to vegetation as well as the lighting. It is very easy to get a feel for an animal under favorable lighting and with it in the open. It can be significantly more difficult when the animal is tucked up under some thick vegetation or is behind thick vegetation.

Last year I was out scouting for Coues and found a mule deer "doe" with my SLC 15s at about 750-800 yards. "She" was tucked up under thick vegetation. Watched "her" for a good while and moved on. Checked the "doe" out from a different angle, about the same distance, with my SLC 15s. "She" was still hanging out and not moving. Threw on my STX 95 and looked at the "doe" near max magnification while keeping the image clear; she was tucked in tight and there were lots of branches. The "doe" eventually turned "her" head and "she" became a 170" class desert mule deer.

Despite having alpha glass (binoculars and spotting scope) and extremely favorable lighting conditions, I could not differentiate the rack from the branches until the buck turned his head; all under 800 yards. So an 8X in this instance likely would have a hunter passing since it was a "doe" when in reality it was a very nice desert mule deer; of course I was scouting for Coues so no tag.

 

[Mt Al]

Definitely not necessary, plenty of great hunts have happened with just decent glass or no glass. Nice to have? Helps thing? Definitely! To me it's simply a function of: do you have the funds or not. I used a Nikon ED50 for a few years when funds were tight. Certainly had trouble with low light and long distances. Then kids moved out (FREEEEEEEEEDOM!!!!!) and bought a Swaro spotter - no comparison, it's way better and nice to have.

I shot plenty of nice critters with zero spotter, a crap-o Weaver and the Nikon.

 

[Dirtscoots]

For deer hunting my 15x56 slc s are the best investment I’ve made. Its nice to have a spotter to be positive it’s worth while buck, but if I had to choose one I’d take my 15s and get closer. If you have never used a set on a tripod with a good pan head I would recommend trying a set.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Quick addition.

Spotting scopes, including alpha level, are not required as untold number of animals are successfully hunted each year. They are a tool that can assist you in being more efficient while hunting as well as increase your overall success rates.

 

[JustinPNW]

Great story on the "doe," AZ! I totally get it. There are always extremes and yes, I understand that you don't need anything let alone an expensive alpha spotter, but I'm trying to find a balance. I do feel that a spotter has a place in my setup even if I don't use it nearly as much as my binos. It seems to me that it's one of those things where it's not useful until you really need it and then it's downright critical.

Your comment on 15x is definitely valuable, Dirtscoots. I've heard this before and it has definitely made me consider picking up a pair. That said, I have still heard from others that using 15-18x binos in lieu of a spotter will leave you wanting your scope eventually, so I think I've reached the conclusion that I may very well try adding a 15x bino to my setup eventually, but not before getting some better spotter glass than my current Diamondback scope. In your opinion, does the 15x need to be alpha if you're already running alpha glass in your main 10x binos?

Thanks again for everyone's feedback. This has been a very informative discussion.

 

[Steve O]

Binoculars are meant for finding game. Spotters are meant for looking at fine detail at long range. You get what you pay for. If I’m going to be carrying it in the mountains, it is going to be a help to me, I’m not carrying around extra weight for nothing. Best to save longer and I’d buy a used Leica/Zeiss/Swarovski over any new of any other brand. You definitely get what you pay for in optics. Those other brands aren’t priced lower because the company feels sorry for you and wants to give you a good deal and make less profit…

 

[Dirtscoots]

I went down the same road in the beginning hunted with buddies that had swaro binos they where dialing scopes on guns and shooting before I could make out an elk. My next step was replace my vortex spotter. After glassing off a tripod with my 15s I would have made that investment before spotter just my personal choice for deer. I see a lot more deer with them. I honestly was looking for a set of mavens but found my swaro 15 on here used for 400 dollars more then mavens. I’ve never actually looked through any of the competition to give you a fair comparison

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Some folks can effectively glass with their spotter. They're lucky SOBs. I personally have tried it and it is not my cup of tea. I'll use my SLCs (10s or 15s depending on where and what I am hunting) to find game and then use my spotter (Kowa 554 or STX 65/95 depending on where and what I am hunting) for clarification.

I know my binoculars typically are used from dawn to dusk; with a few breaks throughout the day. My spotting scope may be used for a few minutes a day; some days more and some days it may not come out of my pack.

For me, it makes more sense to spend the money on what you use most. Then look into addressing any gaps or shortcomings (real or perceived) in your optics arsenal. Sometimes a great deal pops up unexpectedly; that's what credit cards are for.

 

[JustinPNW]

I went down the same road in the beginning hunted with buddies that had swaro binos they where dialing scopes on guns and shooting before I could make out an elk. My next step was replace my vortex spotter. After glassing off a tripod with my 15s I would have made that investment before spotter just my personal choice for deer. I see a lot more deer with them. I honestly was looking for a set of mavens but found my swaro 15 on here used for 400 dollars more then mavens. I’ve never actually looked through any of the competition to give you a fair comparison

Can you actually make out antler detail with the 15x? If so, what range are you limited to in order to get a confident view?

 

[JustinPNW]

Some folks can effectively glass with their spotter. They're lucky SOBs. I personally have tried it and it is not my cup of tea. I'll use my SLCs (10s or 15s depending on where and what I am hunting) to find game and then use my spotter (Kowa 554 or STX 65/95 depending on where and what I am hunting) for clarification.

I know my binoculars typically are used from dawn to dusk; with a few breaks throughout the day. My spotting scope may be used for a few minutes a day; some days more and some days it may not come out of my pack.

For me, it makes more sense to spend the money on what you use most. Then look into addressing any gaps or shortcomings (real or perceived) in your optics arsenal. Sometimes a great deal pops up unexpectedly; that's what credit cards are for.

Yup. This sounds like me at the moment. I am not one who can make glassing with my spotter work so far. I've tried it and it feels like I'm missing too much with the much narrower field of view. I find that having a larger field of view gives my brain better perspective for relative size and color of stuff in the sage. When I have a narrower view, I seem to lose this perspective and end up going back to my binos to check on questionable objects.

This is why I just picked up alpha glass for my 10x and am now moving on to the spotters. I'm not against jumping on a good used deal for an alpha spotter...it's not a money thing as much as its a principle thing. It sounds like there's a pretty balanced response between people saying mid-range is good enough and people saying alpha is the way to go, so I guess I'll have to do some thinking and start looking for used deals.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Yup. This sounds like me at the moment. I am not one who can make glassing with my spotter work so far. I've tried it and it feels like I'm missing too much with the much narrower field of view. I find that having a larger field of view gives my brain better perspective for relative size and color of stuff in the sage. When I have a narrower view, I seem to lose this perspective and end up going back to my binos to check on questionable objects.

This is why I just picked up alpha glass for my 10x and am now moving on to the spotters. I'm not against jumping on a good used deal for an alpha spotter...it's not a money thing as much as its a principle thing. It sounds like there's a pretty balanced response between people saying mid-range is good enough and people saying alpha is the way to go, so I guess I'll have to do some thinking and start looking for used deals.

Do put the Kowa on your short list. The ones to look at are the 553/554 (fluorite), 773/774 (non-fluorite but highly regarded), and the 883/884 (fluorite). Cost is relatively attractive as well especially considering how they stack up against traditional alpha glass.

 

[SuperDUECE22]

these arguments of spotter vs. bino will never end. It all comes down to personal preference, terrain of hunt & budget. I know this can be expensive, but you'll just have to figure out what works best for you. I started out using 10x42 binoculars with no spotter. Then i purchased a $400 nikon spotter, then went to 12x50 binoculars, then $1500 spotter and finally purchased a pair of 15x56 binoculars. I can honestly say I still use all of these depending on the hunt but 90% of the time the spotter stays in the truck. I'm not strictly a meat hunter but I'm definitely not counting inches.

 

[JustinPNW]

Do put the Kowa on your short list. The ones to look at are the 553/554 (fluorite), 773/774 (non-fluorite but highly regarded), and the 883/884 (fluorite). Cost is relatively attractive as well especially considering how they stack up against traditional alpha glass.

Will do. They look like absolutely amazing optics for sure. Still haven't settled on whether I will go mid-range or alpha, but also considering Swaro ATS/ATX and Leica in the alpha class. If Kowa really is comparable quality to Leica and Swaro, then that's pretty impressive given the price difference!

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Will do. They look like absolutely amazing optics for sure. Still haven't settled on whether I will go mid-range or alpha, but also considering Swaro ATS/ATX and Leica in the alpha class. If Kowa really is comparable quality to Leica and Swaro, then that's pretty impressive given the price difference!

This is a good read but like everything else online, take it with a grain of salt:

19 Best Spotting Scopes For Hunting COMPARED! | Insane Spotter Showdown - Backwoods Pursuit

Looking for the best spotting scope for hunting? Maybe you are looking for the overall best spotting scope on the planet or maybe the best spotting scope for

backwoodspursuit.com

I do know that my first hand experiences with the Kowa 554 and STX 65 are in-line with what they found. I did my in-field comparisons chasing black bear, Coues whitetail and mule deer. So I personally give their review a bit more creditability.

 

[nevadabugle]

My vote is for 15s. Anymore I use my leica 15s 95% of the time. I only pull the leica 77mm spotter out when there is something at a long distance that I can't 100 percent verify as a deer. But most of of time I can determine all I need with thr 15s. I carry 8s on my stalks because of the wide FOV.

Do note I am not a trophy hunter. So determining the difference between a 160 buck and a 140 buck is not important. But even with the 15s on a tripod I can usually tell you if it's a dink, a decent buck, or a trophy class deer.

 

[JustinPNW]

This is a good read but like everything else online, take it with a grain of salt:

19 Best Spotting Scopes For Hunting COMPARED! | Insane Spotter Showdown - Backwoods Pursuit

Looking for the best spotting scope for hunting? Maybe you are looking for the overall best spotting scope on the planet or maybe the best spotting scope for

backwoodspursuit.com

I do know that my first hand experiences with the Kowa 554 and STX 65 are in-line with what they found. I did my in-field comparisons chasing black bear, Coues whitetail and mule deer. So I personally give their review a bit more creditability.

AZ, I read that article and really enjoyed the comparisons. This is where I first saw Kowa perform on par with the others. I was disappointed that they didn't have a Leica in there, as I have found that for my eyes, Leica has the most pop and truest color and I believe that helps in identifying mule deer bedded in sage.

My vote is for 15s. Anymore I use my leica 15s 95% of the time. I only pull the leica 77mm spotter out when there is something at a long distance that I can't 100 percent verify as a deer. But most of of time I can determine all I need with thr 15s. I carry 8s on my stalks because of the wide FOV.

Do note I am not a trophy hunter. So determining the difference between a 160 buck and a 140 buck is not important. But even with the 15s on a tripod I can usually tell you if it's a dink, a decent buck, or a trophy class deer.

Thanks for the perspective. The 15x is definitely interesting to me and I'd like to get my hands on a set to see how I feel. Which Leica 15x do you have? How do you like the Leica spotter and what caused you to choose it over the other alpha models?

 

[tdhanses]

AZ, I read that article and really enjoyed the comparisons. This is where I first saw Kowa perform on par with the others. I was disappointed that they didn't have a Leica in there, as I have found that for my eyes, Leica has the most pop and truest color and I believe that helps in identifying mule deer bedded in sage.

Thanks for the perspective. The 15x is definitely interesting to me and I'd like to get my hands on a set to see how I feel. Which Leica 15x do you have? How do you like the Leica spotter and what caused you to choose it over the other alpha models?

I run Leica binos and Kowa spotters, thing is, you have great glass in your binos, you’ll not be happy with crappy glass in a spotter. I have the 553 and 773, had a swaro previous to these.

 

[JustinPNW]

I run Leica binos and Kowa spotters, thing is, you have great glass in your binos, you’ll not be happy with crappy glass in a spotter. I have the 553 and 773, had a swaro previous to these.

Good point. It's a slippery slope, isn't it? Did you find that the Kowas were superior optically to your previous Swaro spotter?

 

[nevadabugle]

Thanks for the perspective. The 15x is definitely interesting to me and I'd like to get my hands on a set to see how I feel. Which Leica 15x do you have? How do you like the Leica spotter and what caused you to choose it over the other alpha models?

I run Leica Duovids. They switch between 10 and 15 power. I love them, but they never caught on for some reason. The only problem is at 10 power they have a small FOV, but I don't use them on 10 very often.

I bought a Leica Televid 77 spotter 20 years ago. Paid less than 1k for it new! They were popular in the circles I hunted in back then. I keep trying to convince myself I need a new spotter, but I just don't spend hours on it since getting 15s and it is still crystal clear although it is not HD glass. I'll likely run it until it dies or I die.