Is it all Leopolds

My first gun is a M70 featherweight has a vari-x II on it. My Dads M70 supergrade has a Vari-X III. Both sit in the safe and the Seekins or Tikka with Trijicons go out in the field, but I kinda want to take the M70s out and shoot them now :).
I’m not saying you, but this thread is getting more bizarre every hour. A model 70 with a vari-x iii was/is a go to top shelf rig for a long time even among a ton of Alaskan outfitters I know and is what I used on both of my Alaska trips. Every client and guide on both of my trips had a vari-x iii. With grizzly hunting, your life can literally be on the line with your scope choice.
 
I took the time to send each and every failed Leupold back to them to repair/check for failure. I sold them when they came back with full disclosure that they went to Leupold for issues/suspected issues. No one batted an eye purchasing one. Is my integrity gone or is it still okay? ;)
Did you test them when they came back?
 
Nope. Straight to the auction block. None took long to sell.
So either you thought they would hold zero when the issue was rectified at the factory, or you knew they wouldn’t because leupold are junk and don’t hold zero?
 
This is only part of the equation though. If it’s all over the place on subsequent trips, is there an issue with rings? Does the shooter not know how to read wind? Etc…
At a minimum you’d need to swap in a different scope, repeat the same tests, and if that one was spot on then put the old scope back on, and do the test again. If it wouldn’t hold zero again, then yeah looking like that scope has a problem. And that’s a sample size of one so it wouldn’t mean that brand of scope doesn’t hold zero and is junk across the board. It just means you have a bad scope.
You're correct. I was in a hurry, but should have posted a more complete response.

I was actually thinking about it later and realized he hadn't shot the rifle with a known-good scope, so we really have no idea if the bad groups are the rifle or something else.

As a side note, when I stopped using Leupold scopes, my groups became more consistent, and load development became really, really simple.

It does not matter to me if other people trust and use Leupold scopes on their rifles. I used them and liked them for years until I started actually checking zero and noting that it kept moving. I still like the company and the employees I've met. I still have many friends who shoot the Mark 5 on all their competition guns, and some of those guys are the absolute best at our sport. I have also seen many of them have problems, and they all check their zeros before every competition.

Last year, I zeroed my 6.5 CM built on a Tikka action with UM rings and an NX8 scope. I then tossed it in a drawer in my truck in a very thin rifle sleeve, along with another rifle, a couple of tripods, and other gear. I then drove from Washington and back for three matches in California, North Dakota, and Wyoming. I made the podium at all three but didn't adjust the scope once through all of that.

If I could trust Leopold scopes, I would use them because I get 50% off, but I can't, so I buy other scopes at retail with no discount whatsoever.
 
So either you thought they would hold zero when the issue was rectified at the factory, or you knew they wouldn’t because leupold are junk and don’t hold zero?
After mby two that went back I lost faith and didn’t want to deal with them anymore. As each failed and came back from Leupold they went away. I did not care to spend time using them anymore. I was not alone with those feelings around here. About that time Nightforce came to the states. The cost was hard to swallow but we started going that direction. A dealer friend rounded up enough of us to make up an order big enough to get dealer status and that was that. I and another friend still have our original Nightforce BR scopes from that order. They’ve never had issues. That NF BR is my test scope I’ll use with the scope checker to test a suspect scope.

Also: keep in mind I’ve stated many times I still have one that hasn’t failed yet. It’s an old MK 4 that came from Premier Reticles. They modified it with a reticle swap and I bought it new directly from them.
 
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After catching up on 5 pages, I quit reading.

The best and most reliable equipment especially if your man enough is a knife.

No chance of scope failure, no chance of a bad shot. It's the best for the hubting industry!
 
Knowing it wouldn’t hold zero
I never said that. I did have reservations after repeat offenses so I moved on.

Factoid: March scopes exist because short range benchresters were sick of sending failed Leupold Competition scopes back to Leupold for failing to hold zero. The failures happened with 10.5lb and 13.5lb rifles shooting a little 6PPC. Not exactly a taxing environment. The March’s for the most part fixed that issue.

Factoid: scope checkers came to be as a means to definitively check to see if your Leupold Competition scope crapped the bed.

There are just way too many instances of failed Leupold’s to say that they (or at least some of them) don’t have issues.

I like many have expressed would definitely buy one again if they come up with one that proves out over time. One looks hopeful but I’m not there with it yet.
 
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With all the talk for or against scopes, it surprises me almost nobody actually keeps track of small or large changes in zero, only saying it lost zero or not, and all by memory. With a clan assessed with 30 round groups and stating large groups statistics as if they apply to individuals, where are log books to track something as simple and important as zero changes. If a scope gets adjusted it only takes 60 seconds to pull a range notebook out and make a note.

I stopped using VX-2 Leupolds back in the 1980’s because the power selector cutout in the main tube didn’t leave a lot of material and rather small bumps would bend the tube. VX-3 and newer scopes are beefier around that cut, but they are still more likely to have issues so I’ve primarily shot fixed power scopes. If minor scope adjustments are all in one direction the scope tube is probably the culprit, while tracking or mount issues will ping pong back and forth.

Living in a windy state, I lost count off all the guys claiming their scope is off, when it’s simply changes in wind. I also have to wonder why so many scopes “fail” during a hunt, or while being carried from point a to point b. My guess is people don't pay attention as much as they claim, rarely shoot a rifle on paper so they are oblivious about the scope’s or mount’s reliability, and it’s simply easier to blame a number of evils on the scope. I bet half of the used rifles purchased over the years have either way too much torque or too little on the bottom metal screws, combined with crappy bedding.

Basically I don’t trust any scope/rifle so I simply track it in a $1 notebook and can’t imagine why so many folks try to rely on memory.
 
I think prs would be a lot more interesting if they did away with the zero confirmation at the shoot.

Run what yah brung, hit that plate. No practice/warm up, or checks. Just hit something, imagine that.
In fairness PRS embraces the fact that it's just an expensive game. The one to do away with the zero range would probably be better suited to NRL Hunter.
 
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