Is a 6.5 PRC enough? Do I need a 7mm?

[Packmansion]

The guy called me a left wing hippie….then the other day a jackass. Typical behavior from immature teenagers and internet trolls. I don’t need any “ points “

I said im surprised you're not a left wing hippie. Also the definition of jackass = a stupid, annoying, or detestable person. Youre being a jackass.

 

[Packmansion]

Now I know exactly how Plato felt.

 

[JackButler]

Jack have you ever tracked a wounded animal at 16,000 elevation and -15 degrees. Dressed like the Michelin man? Knee deep snow? I have not and I don’t want to ….that was the point of the local conditions… nothing more. The terrain is very unforgiving as well.

I can't say I have. Apologies for the sarcasm in my last post. My only point was one of ballistics. Whether or not that tracking job is required has no dependency on a 6.5PRC being used as opposed to a 7mm. A 6.5PRC is more than adequate to take down a Marco Polo sheep under the conditions you mention. I do question taking a shot at a running sheep at over 250 yards in a snowstorm with any caliber though. But we all have different abilities. I don't practice at running animals so I don't take those shots personally.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Jack have you ever tracked a wounded animal at 16,000 elevation and -15 degrees. Dressed like the Michelin man? Knee deep snow? I have not and I don’t want to ….that was the point of the local conditions… nothing more. The terrain is very unforgiving as well.

What makes you think that the animal is going to be wounded by the 6.5 PRC versus killed outright by the 7 PRC - assuming the bullets hit in the same spot? Do you think that being 0.02” larger in diameter is going to make a difference?


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[BCDJR]

What makes you think that the animal is going to be wounded by the 6.5 PRC versus killed outright by the 7 PRC - assuming the bullets hit in the same spot? Do you think that being 0.02” larger in diameter is going to make a difference?


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Man you assume a lot…..who said I shot a 7PRC?

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Man you assume a lot…..who said I shot a 7PRC?

Then pick your other 7mm cartridge. What 7mm cartridge is going to kill the animal better than a 6.5 PRC assuming the same shot placement.


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[BCDJR]

I can't say I have. Apologies for the sarcasm in my last post. My only point was one of ballistics. Whether or not that tracking job is required has no dependency on a 6.5PRC being used as opposed to a 7mm. A 6.5PRC is more than adequate to take down a Marco Polo sheep under the conditions you mention. I do question taking a shot at a running sheep at over 250 yards in a snowstorm with any caliber though. But we all have different abilities. I don't practice at running animals so I don't take those shots personally.

Fair enough… in my experience there you can’t use a bipod as snow is deep in drifts…or at least when I was there it was. I was not shooting a 7mm. I was shooting a 300 Win Mag with 180 grain partitions. I had the opportunity to take an ibex as well on the hunt but some folks in my group were suffering from high altitude issues and wanted to leave asap. So after taking my sheep we left camp. At that altitude and location in the world there is no MedJet or another other rescue company that can fly in a chopper into 17000 ft areas. Or at least back when I went. You have to be loaded up in vehicle and driven down the mountain. So it’s smart to limit your movements and exertion. I agree with you on the shot risk. I’ve shot a few North American sheep but the Marco Polo is a bigger animal. When I was there they were in groups and very wary. I had no luck in getting within a mile of a ram for four days. On this day we were stalking over a low ridge when this ram busted out .i got on him quickly but by the time i shot it was 267 paces to the body. With the wind gusts and lack of any cover except rocks it’s just not like hunting in North America……no bi pods, no packing around a tripod to shoot off, lucky to get one range reading, if you have time your wind reading device changes constantly and forget the phone to aid ballistics. Under these circumstances I was happy to have the 300.

 

[BCDJR]

I said im surprised you're not a left wing hippie. Also the definition of jackass = a stupid, annoying, or detestable person. Youre being a jackass.

People resort to insults in an argument due to a lack of constructive arguments, personal insecurity, emotional frustration, or an inability to cope with perceived attacks on their deeply held beliefs. This tactic, known as an ad hominem, shifts the focus from the issue at hand to personal attacks, often revealing the speaker's inability to argue effectively or their deep emotional investment in the topic.

Psychological and Emotional Factors

• Insecurity and Low Ego Strength:
  .
  Those with a weak ego may build themselves up by tearing others down, using insults to feel more powerful or dominant.
  
  
• Emotional Investment:
  .
  If a person strongly identifies with their beliefs, an attack on those beliefs can feel like a personal attack, triggering emotional reactions and a desire to retaliate.
  
  
• Frustration and Poor Coping Skills:
  .
  An inability to solve an issue through logical means can lead to frustration and immature responses, such as insults.
  
  
• Fear and Insecurity:
  .
  People might feel intimidated or threatened by another person's views, triggering a primal, tribal response to reject or attack that person.

 

[BCDJR]

Then pick your other 7mm cartridge. What 7mm cartridge is going to kill the animal better than a 6.5 PRC assuming the same shot placement.


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I used a 300 Win Mag shooting 180 grain portions . A combination that I am very comfortable and experienced using

 

[Q_Sertorius]

I used a 300 Win Mag shooting 180 grain portions . A combination that I am very comfortable and experienced using

So, you think that given the same shot placement, the 300 Win Mag will kill the animal while the 6.5 PRC will only wound it? The extra 0.044” makes that much difference?

Edit - or is it the extra 33 grains of lead that does the killing in one case and not the other? That poor puny little 147-grain bullet just can’t get through to the vitals on the sheep?


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[BCDJR]

So, you think that given the same shot placement, the 300 Win Mag will kill the animal while the 6.5 PRC will only wound it? The extra 0.044” makes that much difference?


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Are you not the same guy who said you could kill a Cape buffalo with an airgun? I never saw if you were the gentleman who actually did that? But getting back to you question. I have shot two Rocky Mt bighorns with my 7 rem mag and 140 grain ballistic tips and they were down quickly. Next time the nights get down to -32 F below zero and the wind gusts up to 20 mph find a 14000 ft elevation and do some off hand shooting. See what combination of bullets and loads allow you the most forgiveness.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Are you not the same guy who said you could kill a Cape buffalo with an airgun? I never saw if you were the gentleman who actually did that? But getting back to you question. I have shot two Rocky Mt bighorns with my 7 rem mag and 140 grain ballistic tips and they were down quickly. Next time the nights get down to -32 F below zero and the wind gusts up to 20 mph find a 14000 ft elevation and do some off hand shooting. See what combination of bullets and loads allow you the most forgiveness.

Where is this bullet hitting the sheep that a 6.5 PRC won’t kill it, but a 300 Win Mag will?

I never said I have killed a Cape Buffalo with an air gun. I said it had been done.

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[davsco]

Do you think that being 0.02” larger in diameter is going to make a difference?

that sounds small, but the 7 is 7.7% wider than the 6.5, so it does create a larger wound channel. it's not 20% bigger, but it is not the same either. does it turn a wounded animal into a dead animal, i dunno, but it can't hurt to take the larger gun IF you can handle the additional recoil, blast, etc.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

that sounds small, but the 7 is 7.7% wider than the 6.5, so it does create a larger wound channel. it's not 20% bigger, but it is not the same either. does it turn a wounded animal into a dead animal, i dunno, but it can't hurt to take the larger gun IF you can handle the additional recoil, blast, etc.

Is the wound channel from a 7mm measurably larger than one from the same bullet in a 6.5mm? I’ll accept results on FBI testing medium or gory pictures on actual animals.

Where is the shot placement that kills an animal with a 7mm but not a 6.5mm?


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[huntnful]

Is the wound channel from a 7mm measurably larger than one from the same bullet in a 6.5mm? I’ll accept results on FBI testing medium or gory pictures on actual animals.

Where is the shot placement that kills an animal with a 7mm but not a 6.5mm?


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A 225 ELDM produces a 60% wider wound, that also has an 80% increase in max cavity depth, than a 147 ELDM. Let’s not act like bigger bullets of the same design aren't normally going to make bigger wounds. Whether it changes the outcome or not is a different question. A 180 ELDM would be somewhere in the middle.




7mm 180 berger


.264” 156 Berger



Obviously there can be exceptions and one of scenarios. But bigger bullets make bigger wounds.

 

[MT_Wyatt]

Is the wound channel from a 7mm measurably larger than one from the same bullet in a 6.5mm? I’ll accept results on FBI testing medium or gory pictures on actual animals.

Where is the shot placement that kills an animal with a 7mm but not a 6.5mm?


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And while we're at it, inline with what @huntnful is saying- your pile on with these guys is getting to be a bit much. I'm not saying do not embrace the small caliber stuff and what not, I'm personally all for it. And you obviously learned something with the suppressor debacle. But you are dong a LOT of posting where you are repeating, both in content and writing style, to a "regular" on here. Almost to the point we might need to make that bird reference again.

Example: we had someone that was in constant conflict on this thread, both in viewpoint and tone. That immediately changed, yet you just kept on the attack. And now we've reached FBI gel.

Let's just keep it positive - no one owes you an answer that you'll "accept" or not. No one hits the forums to get confronted regularly.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

A 225 ELDM produces a 60% wider wound, that also has an 80% increase in max cavity depth, than a 147 ELDM. Let’s not act like bigger bullets of the same design aren't normally going to make bigger wounds. Whether it changes the outcome or not is a different question. A 180 ELDM would be somewhere in the middle.

View attachment 932952
View attachment 932958

7mm 180 berger
View attachment 932959

.264” 156 Berger
View attachment 932960


Obviously there can be exceptions and one of scenarios. But bigger bullets make bigger wounds.

Where does the shot placement have to be to kill an animal with a 300 Winchester Magnum, but not with a 6.5 PRC?

If the “bigger bullet going faster” makes a difference, that is the question you must answer. Can I take a 12-MOA shot instead of a 10-MOA or an 8-MOA shot because I have a bigger, faster bullet?

This is the kind of stuff my dad used to argue when he took the 9.3x74R out deer hunting. The 270-grain Speer bullets had very thin jackets and made devastating wounds at 2600 FPS. And he had a few marginal kills with it over the years. I remember a liver shot that bled out in under 100 yards. The deer was practically gutted and tripped over its own intestines. And a facing shot that missed the vitals but took out the right shoulder, all the ribs on the right side, shattered the femur, and cut the femoral artery. The bullet exited the animal. For all I know, it’s still going thirty-five years later. Of course, we had to throw away half the deer. And neither of those shots would be considered “what a hunter should be trying to do.” He should not have taken either shot.


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[huntnful]

Where does the shot placement have to be to kill an animal with a 300 Winchester Magnum, but not with a 6.5 PRC?

If the “bigger bullet going faster” makes a difference, that is the question you must answer. Can I take a 12-MOA shot instead of a 10-MOA or an 8-MOA shot because I have a bigger, faster bullet?

This is the kind of stuff my dad used to argue when he took the 9.3x74R out deer hunting. The 270-grain Speer bullets had very thin jackets and made devastating wounds at 2600 FPS. And he had a few marginal kills with it over the years. I remember a liver shot that bled out in under 100 yards. The deer was practically gutted and tripped over its own intestines. And a facing shot that missed the vitals but took out the right shoulder, all the ribs on the right side, shattered the femur, and cut the femoral artery. The bullet exited the animal. For all I know, it’s still going thirty-five years later. Of course, we had to throw away half the deer. And neither of those shots would be considered “what a hunter should be trying to do.” He should not have taken either shot.


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I said, that it might not make a difference in whether or not the animal dies. Just that a bigger bullet makes a bigger wound.

Was just addressing the first part of your statement. Not the second.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

And while we're at it, inline with what @huntnful is saying- your pile on with these guys is getting to be a bit much. I'm not saying do not embrace the small caliber stuff and what not, I'm personally all for it. And you obviously learned something with the suppressor debacle. But you are dong a LOT of posting where you are repeating, both in content and writing style, to a "regular" on here. Almost to the point we might need to make that bird reference again.

Example: we had someone that was in constant conflict on this thread, both in viewpoint and tone. That immediately changed, yet you just kept on the attack. And now we've reached FBI gel.

Let's just keep it positive - no one owes you an answer that you'll "accept" or not. No one hits the forums to get confronted regularly.

The point about tone and frequency is well-taken. I will bow out of this conversation until someone else responds.

I was simply asking for objective data about wound channels. Or even anecdotal examples of “this animal got hit here by a 6.5 PRC and a bigger, faster bullet would have killed it.” I provided some possible examples of that above.

I find it funny that wondering why someone thinks a 6.5 PRC isn’t enough gun but a 7mm magnum is enough gun makes me an advocate for “embracing the small caliber stuff.” The 6.5 PRC is not a small cartridge.


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[BCDJR]

Where is this bullet hitting the sheep that a 6.5 PRC won’t kill it, but a 300 Win Mag will?

I never said I have killed a Cape Buffalo with an air gun. I said it had been done.

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That’s disgusting to shoot an animal in a farmyard.