Is a 6.5 PRC enough? Do I need a 7mm?

[Q_Sertorius]

That’s disgusting to shoot an animal in a farmyard.

Farmyard? Did you watch the videos?

The second video title is a play on “needle in a haystack.”


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[BCDJR]

The point about tone and frequency is well-taken. I will bow out of this conversation until someone else responds.

I was simply asking for objective data about wound channels. Or even anecdotal examples of “this animal got hit here by a 6.5 PRC and a bigger, faster bullet would have killed it.” I provided some possible examples of that above.

I find it funny that wondering why someone thinks a 6.5 PRC isn’t enough gun but a 7mm magnum is enough gun makes me an advocate for “embracing the small caliber stuff.” The 6.5 PRC is not a small cartridge.


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Farmyard? Did you watch the videos?

The second video title is a play on “needle in a haystack.”


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[BCDJR]

I saw the first video where Keith shot the buffalo from his the safety of his blind. The animal was grazing on vegetation placed in front of the blind. I assume this was at one of those South African game farms. Where they relocate animals for folks to shoot. Was disgusting and I have lost respect for Keith for taking part. I suppose he got financial incentives.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

I saw the first video where Keith shot the buffalo from his the safety of his blind. The animal was grazing on vegetation placed in front of the blind. I assume this was at one of those South African game farms. Where they relocate animals for folks to shoot. Was disgusting and I have lost respect for Keith for taking part. I suppose he got financial incentives.

I didn’t even notice that. Hunting over bait is not my idea of a good hunt. We can agree on that much.

But both those guys - and a few other people too - have killed Cape Buffalo with air rifles. Although you will be happy to note in the second video that the hunter with the air rifle lets the pro with the magnum double rifle lead when they go to find the dead buffalo in the brush.


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[BCDJR]

Sir I have told you three times I did not shoot a 7 mm gun at my Marco Polo so I can not answer your questions. Nor can I answer what if I shot it will a .22 or a 20 ga slug or a .416. For me I shoot my .300 very well. Maybe you can watch this video from some pros on the .300. I wanted big holes and lots of blood in this once in lifetime trip.

 

[TaperPin]

I didn’t think another 30 cal was needed but the belted magnum spirits could sense the proper natural balance was off a little and a pair of 300 wby barrels with dies fell out of the sky. I feel much better about the existence of the 6.5 now.

 

[Bluefish]

Obviously there can be exceptions and one of scenarios. But bigger bullets make bigger wounds.

Not all bigger bullets make bigger wounds than smaller bullets. Sure a 225 eldm is bigger than a 147 eldm, but is a 225 ttsx wound bigger than 77 tmk? Imho the statement bigger bullets make bigger wounds is not absolute and really depends on bullet construction. Probably even more than size.

 

[Flyjunky]

Does anyone here think a 6.5prc, with 16-22ft/lbs of recoil is too much recoil to shoot accurately? These numbers are without a break/suppressor.

If you don’t think it’s too much recoil to shoot effectively than wouldn’t a 300wm/prc with a break/suppressor be just as easy? A 300wm has 26-32 ft/lbs with a bare barrel and if a suppressor cuts 30% (down to 23 ft/lbs) or a muzzle break cuts 50%+ (down to 16 ft/lbs) than how is it that people think they are difficult to shoot accurately? Obviously with the brake you have concussive force but with a suppressor….?

I do most of my hunting with a 6.5-284 and 156’s but I still love to shoot the big 30’s and I shoot them well.

I get the premise of small caliber but it’s just getting so played out. We get 20 of these threads a year…can we just get a sticky thread that everyone can just point newbies to?

 

[Packmansion]

I think the most important aspect of these discussions is the changes in technology. Not that long ago bullet selection looked different. Most bullets were round nosed cup n core. Premium bullets were still complete turds but they were designed to retain weight and had some sort interlock or partition design. Due to the above, a more fair comparison is comparing a 6.5 prc shooting a 147 grain eldm to a 7mm shooting a 140 grain soft point or a 300 shooting a 180 or 165 grain soft point. A good analogy is a 2.7 liter v6 twin turbo in a f150 vs a coyote 5.0 liter v8. Its not a 1 to 1 but in this example the 2.6 liter tows more and uses less gas.

 

[Flyjunky]

Not all bigger bullets make bigger wounds than smaller bullets. Sure a 225 eldm is bigger than a 147 eldm, but is a 225 ttsx wound bigger than 77 tmk? Imho the statement bigger bullets make bigger wounds is not absolute and really depends on bullet construction. Probably even more than size.

Of course it does, that’s obvious and goes without saying. @huntnful isn’t talking about a 30 fmj vs 6.5 eldm.

I’ve seen some devastating results from a 338 terminator slinging 300gr bergers at 3120. 2 elk acted as if they were struck by lightning and the damage was massive, especially the one that was a little forward and caught the back of the shoulder. The elk was slightly quartering towards the shooter and it literally looked like the bullet spun the elk at impact. I’d never hunt with that rifle but it was impressive.

 

[huntnful]

Not all bigger bullets make bigger wounds than smaller bullets. Sure a 225 eldm is bigger than a 147 eldm, but is a 225 ttsx wound bigger than 77 tmk? Imho the statement bigger bullets make bigger wounds is not absolute and really depends on bullet construction. Probably even more than size.

It was specifically stated about bigger bullets of the same design. Why I referenced the ELDM line and not your example.

 

[Packmansion]

He was specifically talking about bigger bullets of the same design. Why I referenced the ELDM line.

To make a point, bigger bullets of the same design didn't exist 30 years ago. Tech has progressed, so if we have better bullets can we drop down in caliber? Im not sure the small caliber argument is centered around a 338 lapua causing less damage than a 223. I think everyone can agree with that. I think the concept is more about optimizing your setup. In the other direction. Most guys shooting 300 win would laugh at someone using a 50bmg for elk.
If your shots are all under 300 yards a 223 should work for most applications, you now have a gun that will be a lot handier, easier follow up shots, easier to shoot in difficult positions, easier to practice, you will be more lethal than someone who uses a 300 and is not well practiced. Your odds of being well practiced are also much great as you have eliminated barriers.

There are a lot of benefits going with the smallest caliber that you can confidently kill with. The guns of yesteryear were all built around maximum point blank range so more powder meant incrementally more range. With laser range finders this limitation vanished. With long range expanding bullets things changed even more. Small caliber is all about practicality.

I do a lot of PRS now a days and prior to going in on that sport I was all about 300 win and 30-06. Once I realized what I was capable of with a good amount of practice my perspective shifted a lot. I regularly shoot long range and in competitions shooting off of random obstacle under pressure you wind up missing a lot of shots due to wind and other things like errors or even sd or extreme spread. I can shoot very well with a 300 win mag but it takes more diligence and focus. There is no way I would shoot better with a 300 win in a prs match lol omg itd be terrible. Spotting impacts is impossible. If you cannot spot your impact you are missing out on critical information. Its simply no longer necessary to shoot something like a 300 win. Maximum point blank range is old stuff I have a range finder and I can dial easily. A 6.5 creedmoor is far more enjoyable, easier to shoot, cheaper to shoot and allows for a lot more opportunity to practice and improve. This is just an opinion at the end of the day, I will likely never shoot a 300 win again unless there are no other options such as a guide requirement or laws. There are a lot of people now successfully taking elk with caliber much smaller than 6.5 creedmoor. I have seen with a 6.5 creedmoor does to lungs. No animal is going far if you put a shot in the right spot. Youre more likely to place the shot well with a rifle you are confident with and you will be able to extend your range as well and keep the weight of the gun down.

 

[highsierra]

My brother’s 6.5 PRC shoots the 156 EOL into little bitty groups at 2934 fps MV.

Doing the ballistics voodoo it’s superior to our 162 ELDX load from our 7mm Rem Mags.

That’s plenty.




P

My 6.5 PRC’s dope. It is pumping out the 156gr Bergers at 2975fps MV. Gonna use this load on a mt. goat hunt next month.

 

[Pharmseller]

Shoot straight and post pics. Mountain goat is a dream hunt for me.

 

[huntnful]

To make a point, bigger bullets of the same design didn't exist 30 years ago. Tech has progressed, so if we have better bullets can we drop down in caliber? Im not sure the small caliber argument is centered around a 338 lapua causing less damage than a 223. I think everyone can agree with that. I think the concept is more about optimizing your setup. In the other direction. Most guys shooting 300 win would laugh at someone using a 50bmg for elk.
If your shots are all under 300 yards a 223 should work for most applications, you now have a gun that will be a lot handier, easier follow up shots, easier to shoot in difficult positions, easier to practice, you will be more lethal than someone who uses a 300 and is not well practiced. Your odds of being well practiced are also much great as you have eliminated barriers.

There are a lot of benefits going with the smallest caliber that you can confidently kill with. The guns of yesteryear were all built around maximum point blank range so more powder meant incrementally more range. With laser range finders this limitation vanished. With long range expanding bullets things changed even more. Small caliber is all about practicality.

I do a lot of PRS now a days and prior to going in on that sport I was all about 300 win and 30-06. Once I realized what I was capable of with a good amount of practice my perspective shifted a lot. I regularly shoot long range and in competitions shooting off of random obstacle under pressure you wind up missing a lot of shots due to wind and other things like errors or even sd or extreme spread. I can shoot very well with a 300 win mag but it takes more diligence and focus. There is no way I would shoot better with a 300 win in a prs match lol omg itd be terrible. Spotting impacts is impossible. If you cannot spot your impact you are missing out on critical information. Its simply no longer necessary to shoot something like a 300 win. Maximum point blank range is old stuff I have a range finder and I can dial easily. A 6.5 creedmoor is far more enjoyable, easier to shoot, cheaper to shoot and allows for a lot more opportunity to practice and improve. This is just an opinion at the end of the day, I will likely never shoot a 300 win again unless there are no other options such as a guide requirement or laws. There are a lot of people now successfully taking elk with caliber much smaller than 6.5 creedmoor. I have seen with a 6.5 creedmoor does to lungs. No animal is going far if you put a shot in the right spot. Youre more likely to place the shot well with a rifle you are confident with and you will be able to extend your range as well and keep the weight of the gun down.

No arguments here with any of what you said there man. I personally lean towards just shooting the biggest, fastest, frangible bullet that you can shoot well. Whatever it may be, a bigger wound never hurt. And if you can still spot impacts, make good/fast follow ups and shoot it well, then you only gain benefits in regards to wind drift error, range forgiveness, wound channel and time to incapacitation.

The field scenarios you put yourself and the style that you hunt also play a large roll. I’ll morally drop a bomb on an animal, so the least I can do is shoot a cartridge/bullet that has some environmental forgiveness.

 

[BigCountry49]

To the OP: Whether or not you should step up from a 6.5 depends on your own confidence in it, not what other people here suggest. There are good articles out there from experienced hunters on the matter as well. Rokslide is where you come to argue with other people about what gear they use to hunt with. Spoiler alert, no body ever changes their mind. If your into that, I would suggest the archery forums on broadheads and draw weight.

 

[Packmansion]

My 6.5 PRC’s dope. It is pumping out the 156gr Bergers at 2975fps MV. Gonna use this load on a mt. goat hunt next month.
View attachment 933426

I think you need to upgrade to a 28 nosler. I wouldn't want to take a chance on a goat with a 6.5 creedmoor magnum. Don't forget to pack your yoga mat and chai tea lattes.

 

[Formidilosus]

It was specifically stated about bigger bullets of the same design. Why I referenced the ELDM line and not your example.

Not to get in the middle, however ELD-M’s really aren’t that great of an example. At near muzzle velocity they come apart dramatically, and the larger ELD-M’s create larger wounds. However when both a 225gr ELD-M and a 140gr 6.5mm ELD-M for example, hit at middle to lower velocities, the wounds are so close that they are often oppositely attributed. Sometime the 225gr is very tame, and sometimes the 140gr 6.5mm is violent. Sometimes opposite. The reason is because of jacket thickness and the opening under the tip.

An example. Two elk killed two days apart, near identical placenta and angle. Massively different cartiage and bullets.

.224 77gr bullet at less than 1,400fps impact-







From left of the knife, all the way through every rib to the right out of the frame- that entire dark red/purple section is destroyed tissue and shattered bone-




Conversely, 225gr ELD-M at 2,700fps or so impact. Just left of the white strip of tissue, to the right about where my hand ends-





This whole “bigger caliber, bigger wound” would have some meaning if there were any true optimized 7mm plus projectiles- there aren’t. The Hornady Amax’s in certain calibers and weights were about as close as there have been commercially- but ELD-M’s are way less destructive than most AMAX’s on average, and most behave more alike than different beyond muzzle impact speeds.

 

[Dobermann]

Yeah? But at what temp bro?

And was it windy and snowy?

Oh wait, looks like we've moved on and I was too slow ...

 

[coyotekilla]

I recently shot my first Elk. The guide insisted I use a .30 cal instead of my 6.5 PRC. I obliged with my 30-06 Tikka. The big bull went 3 steps. Great day.

It started me thinking about cartridges. My 6.5 PRC is a Proof Elevation MTR 24" bbl. For me, It is the most accurate rifle I own. It loves the Berger 156 gr EOL that I purchased from Choice and achieves 3010 fps. It shoots UM loaded 147 ELD-m at 2975 fps. My Carbon Six 24" barreled 30-06 Tikka groups 165 gr Accubonds very well at 2940 fps and shoots Barnes 168 gr TTSX even faster at 3025 fps. My friend has a Tikka 24" 7mm Rem Mag that shoots factory 162 gr ELD-x at 2925 fps.

I realize I am comparing different bullets and factory ammo to semi-custom ammo but these are the cartridges I personally saw chronographed. After entering the info in a ballistics calculator, the 6.5 PRC, at 300 yards, has considerably more velocity then any of the others. It has more energy, less drop and less drift plus a higher sectional density. Because of the higher BC bullets the 6.5 PRC has an even bigger advantage at 400 and 500 yards.

Is the 6.5 PRC really the marginal cartridge for Elk simply because it is 6 gr less weight and .020 less diameter? Is the issue that most feel the 180 gr bullet in the 06 or the 7mm is a much better choice for bigger game?

I think what your seeing is a guide that takes a bunch of hunters out a year, and sees poor shooters, or over confident shooters wounding elk with a 6.5, and he's put all the 6.5's in the same bucket.

Bore diameter aside look at your numbers, basically your shipping 150 to 165 at 3k, that's plenty lethal.

Ive never taken an elk, but I've taken a truck full of whitetail & this is my observation. I'll take a 243 in the heart over a 300 wby in the guts, and a 243 in the neck over about all else. If you shoot your 6.5 prc better than your '06... id hunt with the prc.