Is a 30 cal big game rifle needed anymore?

[TaperPin]

The guy you are attempting to insult here likely has more general firearms knowledge that you will ever accrue in a single lifetime.

Please keep your rebuttals more respectful to all members.

That’s funny. The guy you are attempting to defend has more disrespectful comments than almost anyone. Lol

 

[philos]

Post these up and report to admin if you believe that to be true.

 

[TaperPin]

Post these up and report to admin if you believe that to be true.

Lol. That’s funny as well.

 

[Article 4]

Post these up and report to admin if you believe that to be true.

Lol. That’s funny as well.

Have to agree with Taper here. In the threads that I have taken part in, that person makes snide, offensive, and completely inappropriate comments regularly and continues to do so without the same negative outcomes that a FNG or WKR etc would receive.

Lets not also discount the many others here with more than 30 years of shooting, rifle building, consulting, military, pro staff, and industry experience that are not listed. Just because someone is a "Staff Member" does not make them the final word in all things, which is the way he presents himself.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

I’d also like to add to the thread, unlike most members I actually have a .50 BMG that I could hunt with (from a blind because it weighs as much as I do)

With enough donations I will shoot a doe with it with FMJ’s for science.

Who’s in?

i have seen a deer shot with 50 bmg. the bullet started as a fmj, had the tip cut off, then the nose partially drilled out and filled with plastic (or potentially an explosive - the guy who did this was more than a little deranged). the shot was through a 4" tree, and hit the deer aft of the ribs. the carnage was unreal. basically gutted at the shot, with near complete tissue damage from the last rib to the knees of the hind legs, basically just mangled hide holding it together.

this was back in the era before cell phones, much less phone cameras, so all i have is the image burned into my memory.

 

[philos]

Lol. That’s funny as well.

Ok you seem to have an issue here. Reach out not the principals/owners and let them know. I assume you know who I am referencing

 

[philos]

Have to agree with Taper here. In the threads that I have taken part in, that person makes snide, offensive, and completely inappropriate comments regularly and continues to do so without the same negative outcomes that a FNG or WKR etc would receive.

Lets not also discount the many others here with more than 30 years of shooting, rifle building, consulting, military, pro staff, and industry experience that are not listed. Just because someone is a "Staff Member" does not make them the final word in all things, which is the way he presents himself.

I agree that there are others that are well versed in firearms. Just keeps the comments respectable on your end and report others that don’t-EVEN if they are staff

ANYONE/EVERYONE SHOULD REPORT ANY STAFF MEMBER THEY FEEL IS OUT OF LINE!!

 

[Team4LongGun]

As follow up to @philos comment, this is a DISCUSSION forum. When someone states their opinion, and it differs from yours, or you don't agree, being condescending, insulting them, or trolling them is not the way.
Post up why your opinion is different, provide some insight and or data. Responding with name calling, memes are just instigating and the very definition of trolling.

 

[sharps54]

Not missing your point at all. Refuting it with evidence, not emotion. There are multiple points of well designed, supported, and peer reviewed prospective and retrospective study evidentiary support in this thread and many others.

End

If bigger is not always better why has the FBI gone back to 9mm? I bring that up since the FBI and their criteria are some of the first evidence that has been presented.

 

[87TT]

And the Army is going to a bigger round, so?

 

[atmat]

Just because someone is a "Staff Member" does not make them the final word in all things, which is the way he presents himself.

I think I’ve seen you and others bring this up before. But just a heads-up, @Formidilosus isn’t on staff at Rokslide.

 

[TaperPin]

Ok you seem to have an issue here. Reach out not the principals/owners and let them know. I assume you know who I am referencing

I have such thick skin nobody bothers me, and enough experience to not be intimidated by those who claim to know everything. I simply found it ironic.

 

[sharps54]

I don’t seem to have edit permission but ignore the word ‘first’ in my last post.

My point @87TT Is just that if larger handgun rounds are more effective why isn’t the FBI using them? Or is the 9mm as effective as they seem they need? The Army is going bigger because of body armor not performance on unarmored targets.

 

[Robobiss]

i have seen a deer shot with 50 bmg. the bullet started as a fmj, had the tip cut off, then the nose partially drilled out and filled with plastic (or potentially an explosive - the guy who did this was more than a little deranged). the shot was through a 4" tree, and hit the deer aft of the ribs. the carnage was unreal. basically gutted at the shot, with near complete tissue damage from the last rib to the knees of the hind legs, basically just mangled hide holding it together.

this was back in the era before cell phones, much less phone cameras, so all i have is the image burned into my memory.

I’m sure that would be absolutely devastating, especially after going through a barrier like the tree to get the party started with the homemade “hollowpoint”.

If I did it I would shoot the doe in the lungs, no shoulder. And I personally would not predict a bang-flop. I would be tracking almost without a doubt.

Would be interesting to say the least, I might do it anyways.

 

[atmat]

Humans aren't made out of gel. And if you think your skin can stretch as much and as as fast that gel did without bursting then you're in for a surprise lol

Ballistics gel doesn't have bone, lung tissue, vessels, etc. It's all the same medium. That's not how our bodies work.

My initial response was deleted for being “condescending,” so I’ll try again. If you go back and read on ballistics gelatin testing, you’ll see that there are protocols to test for different types of scenarios. Overall, these represent a standardized and approximate representation of tissue damage.

To each their own

Totally agree that each of us gets our own opinion. But the comment I replied to stated that there are significantly more issues with “undergunned” than “overgunned” — which appeared to be a statement of fact not opinion. That’s why I responded with my opinion/experience that I’ve seen the opposite.

You may hang around with better shooters than I do, and that may be the difference. But most hunters I know aren’t skilled marksmen, and don’t handle high recoil rounds well.

 

[Shō[t]gun]

I haven’t seen such an entertaining thread failure since my hot 3rd grade teacher’s top button gave out right before summer break.

 

[87TT]

I don’t seem to have edit permission but ignore the word ‘first’ in my last post.

My point @87TT Is just that if larger handgun rounds are more effective why isn’t the FBI using them? Or is the 9mm as effective as they seem they need? The Army is going bigger because of body armor not performance on unarmored targets.

Not to get sidetracked but then why is the Army or for that matter the FBI and law enforcement for that matter using 30 cal and larger sniper rifles?

 

[BigNate]

I don’t seem to have edit permission but ignore the word ‘first’ in my last post.

My point @87TT Is just that if larger handgun rounds are more effective why isn’t the FBI using them? Or is the 9mm as effective as they seem they need? The Army is going bigger because of body armor not performance on unarmored targets.

The FBI liked the 10mm for it's performance, found that the women and men of small stature didn't handle it well. So they de-tuned it, shortened it and we arrived at. 40 S&W. Those same people struggled with it so they went back to 9mm. Along with this historical evolution, bullet technology has improved, narrowing the performance gap, allowing the 9mm to meet the minimum requirements.

The same phenomenon has occurred in rifle ammo performance. Smaller rounds are now performing well enough to negate any real advantage, while having a much better hit rate.

The Army hands out contracts based on who owes favors. Rarely do armed forces get the best of what's available. There's a reason Veterans avoid things bragging about being "military grade".

 

[Article 4]

I agree that there are others that are well versed in firearms. Just keeps the comments respectable on your end and report others that don’t-EVEN if they are staff

ANYONE/EVERYONE SHOULD REPORT ANY STAFF MEMBER THEY FEEL IS OUT OF LINE!!

All about healthy discourse. In fact, love it and learn a lot from it.
Attitude means a lot and mutual respect means a lot.

Appreciate your support

 

[sharps54]

The FBI liked the 10mm for it's performance, found that the women and men of small stature didn't handle it well. So they de-tuned it, shortened it and we arrived at. 40 S&W. Those same people struggled with it so they went back to 9mm. Along with this historical evolution, bullet technology has improved, narrowing the performance gap, allowing the 9mm to meet the minimum requirements.

The same phenomenon has occurred in rifle ammo performance. Smaller rounds are now performing well enough to negate any real advantage, while having a much better hit rate.

The Army hands out contracts based on who owes favors. Rarely do armed forces get the best of what's available. There's a reason Veterans avoid things bragging about being "military grade".

It’s all true