Is a 30 cal big game rifle needed anymore?

[Formidilosus]

Again, you can have the most perfected .223 bullet in the world, and it will still never be as devastating as a .50bmg that's only using simple ball ammo.

Absolutely, 100% false. 50BMG FMJ creates pistol caliber wounds in tissue.

 

[ARK_Ginger]

Absolutely, 100% false. 50BMG FMJ creates pistol caliber wounds in tissue.

But I’m sure the shock wave looks awesome in clear ballistic gel with a high speed camera.

 

[Lando]

In answer to the original question, if KDM Bell didn't need anything more than a 6.5 or 7mm to kill over a thousand elephants, then I guess I'll be okay shooting NA game with 6mm, .223, or 6.5 bullets that are leaps and bounds superior to what KDM Bell had, not to mention a much better rifle, optics, ballistic computer and a range finder.

W. D. M. Bell - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Interestingly, Bell also appreciated the 22 Savage High Power for Red Stag and buffalo, and some used it for tigers. Again, with inferior bullets, rifles, optics, and no ballistic computer or range finder.

W. D. M. Bell - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[plebe]

In answer to the original question, if KDM Bell didn't need anything more than a 6.5 or 7mm to kill over a thousand elephants, then I guess I'll be okay shooting NA game with 6mm, .223, or 6.5 bullets that are leaps and bounds superior to what KDM Bell had, not to mention a much better rifle, optics, ballistic computer and a range finder.

W. D. M. Bell - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Interestingly, Bell also appreciated the 22 Savage High Power for Red Stag and buffalo, and some used it for tigers. Again, with inferior bullets, rifles, optics, and no ballistic computer or range finder.

W. D. M. Bell - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Hmm…


”His favourite rifles were a bespoke Rigby-made 7×57mm Mauser with which he shot the majority of his elephants, a 'wand-like' Mannlicher–Schoenauer 6.5×54mm[11] carbine, which he abandoned due to failure of the available ammunition, a Lee–Enfield sporting rifle in .303 British and Mauser rifles chambered in .318 Westley Richards.[21]”

“In all WDM Bell shot elephants with the following cartridges: 6.5x54 Mannlicher, 7x57 Mauser (.275), .303 British, .318 Westley Richards, .350 Rigby Magnum, .416 Rigby and .450/400.[20]”

 

[roadrunner]

Absolutely, 100% false. 50BMG FMJ creates pistol caliber wounds in tissue.

 

[Honyock]

So, is it more effective to use a 10 lb sledge hammer or a hammer to drive a six penny nail? Both will do the job if you hit the nail. Back to the OP's question, I don't think starting out with a heavy caliber with a lot of recoil is a good idea for someone's first gun. Recoil effects everyone, some more than others. If you can't handle the recoil, a 300 WM is not going to do you any good.

 

[AZ_Hunter]

So let’s say I have my 30-06 built out the way I want it, 1,000’s of 30-06 cases, well stocked on .308 bullets and powder. Would you all still recommend going with a smaller cartridge for the benefits?

Changing is a want, not a need.

I’m the same boat and will be building a 6CM… but I don’t “need” it, I just want one. I have enough 06 and 308 components to last a lifetime.

Good ole boring 06 still and will always work for any NA game within 500 yards. I’ve taken mine to 1000 on the range, and shoot more than most, but I still feel that shooting at big game beyond that simply introduces too much risk. It’s one thing to walk in your shots on steel, but…wind is a bitch and animals move.

 

[jimh406]

Elephant hunting 150 or more years ago doesn't prove that he was using the best gun at the time. Also, wasn't it typical for the hunters in Africa to have a PH with a backup gun. AFAIK, the backup guns were typically not the lightest calibers.

In his case, (and I don't know anything about him) if he made a bad shot someone finished it. If that's the standard, do you want your backup guy in the US to use a 223 or something larger?

 

[goalie]

In his case, (and I don't know anything about him) if he made a bad shot someone finished it. If that's the standard, do you want your backup guy in the US to use a 223 or something larger?

Um, he was a professional ivory hunter that killed hundreds of BIG elephants back in the day. If he botched it, there was no "backup" like some sport hunter today.

 

[WesternSlope]

Absolutely, 100% false. 50BMG FMJ creates pistol caliber wounds in tissue.

Form, you’ve got me curious. Do you have photos of this in gel or tissue?

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Never has been, but that’s doesn’t mean they aren’t effective tools.

 

[Lou270]

Um, he was a professional ivory hunter that killed hundreds of BIG elephants back in the day. If he botched it, there was no "backup" like some sport hunter today.

Bell only used solids and said his rifle barrels have never been “polluted” with softs. Bell was also a renowned maksman among African hunters including the legendary white hunters and known to shoot birds on the wing with a rifle. If you can shoot like that I guess about anything works

Lou

 

[Formidilosus]

Form, you’ve got me curious. Do you have photos of this in gel or tissue?

Not that I can share. .50 BMG FMJ’s are not designed to upset, have very thick jackets and tend to not upset at all in normal animals.

However Jerry Miculek did a video with clear ballistics gel that shows it well with 750gr AMAX (which is much more frangible than FMJ, and it still sucks). It’s a pistol wound for 18+ inches.





The myth of the 50 BMG and “ft-lbs of energy” go hand in hand. There are multiple US mil personal that have been shot by 50 bmg’s from ND’s at near contact distance and are perfectly fine. One tried to attack the guy who did it- after he took a round through the hip. It’s all BS.

I have shot and seen shot enough living things with .50’s that I would 100% rather use a fragmenting varmint bullet from a .224, than any 50cal FMJ.

 

[Lando]

My only point was that Bell killed a lot of elephants with inferior sub 30 caliber bullets, optics, rifles, ballistic information, no range finder etc. At the end of the day, if people want to go with the idea that a larger caliber gives them a wider margin of error/lower risk of a lost animal when they make a bad shot that's their prerogative. For me, I'd rather shoot a caliber that maximizes my ability to put a bullet that's designed to fragment and deposit all of it's energy in the animal where I want it. And for most people, in my experience and observation, their ability to shoot accurately degrades at about 270 levels of recoil. New hunters/shooters, it's even less.

 

[Point Man]

How much do you love your grandpa? Think about it.

 

[Dobermann]

Here we go went again ...

Fixed it for myself.

 

[yycyak]

Well that is a heck of a thing to read.

... There are multiple US mil personal that have been shot by 50 bmg’s from ND’s at near contact distance and are perfectly fine. One tried to attack the guy who did it- after he took a round through the hip. ...

 

[plebe]

Not that I can share. .50 BMG FMJ’s are not designed to upset, have very thick jackets and tend to not upset at all in normal animals.

However Jerry Miculek did a video with clear ballistics gel that shows it well with 750gr AMAX (which is much more frangible than FMJ, and it still sucks). It’s a pistol wound for 18+ inches.

View attachment 725252



The myth of the 50 BMG and “ft-lbs of energy” go hand in hand. There are multiple US mil personal that have been shot by 50 bmg’s from ND’s at near contact distance and are perfectly fine. One tried to attack the guy who did it- after he took a round through the hip. It’s all BS.

I have shot and seen shot enough living things with .50’s that I would 100% rather use a fragmenting varmint bullet from a .224, than any 50cal FMJ.

Can be messy…

This Marine survived a shot from a .50-cal at point-blank range

Cpl. Jared Foster is on a short list of people lucky enough to survive being shot with a .50 caliber round, ammo usually meant for vehicles or hard barriers.

www.wearethemighty.com

 

[Dking]

So recently had a friend make the move into becoming a hunter and asked the age old question...if I bought one rifle and wanted to hunt nearly anything in the lower 48, what should I get.

The classic answer has been a 30 cal...300 WM, 300 Weatherby, 300 RUM, and now 300 PRC and a multitude of short and medium action 30's. We had a long discussion on that and wonder, is this still "the thing?" Do we always wanna tell someone to get a 30?

I don’t think so. 7mm has a lot of good cartridges

 

[RobHazmat89]

Absolutely, 100% false. 50BMG FMJ creates pistol caliber wounds in tissue.

Lmao. Put the meth pipe down