Is a 30 cal big game rifle needed anymore?

[NevadaMike]

While its not required anymore, I prefer the largest reasonable caliber I can shoot well and stay in the glass for follow up shots. Sure, my 6 CM can get it done but I choose to carry my suppressed 7PRC for big game and depending on where I am a 6.5 CM or 6.5 PRC. I am probably going to try the 6 ARC for sitka black tail this fall but they are very small and 50-100 yard shots are the norm and a 300 yard shot would be the maximum and extremely rare. My logic, flawed as it may be, is shots are quick and often offhand so recoil management is more important so I can see where they go. I got rid of my 300 PRC because FOR ME I could not stay in the glass for follow up shots and it was punishing to train with. I would stay in the middle caliber ranges that you shoot well and ones with good, affordable ammo available where you live.

 

[plebe]

Not that I can share. .50 BMG FMJ’s are not designed to upset, have very thick jackets and tend to not upset at all in normal animals.

However Jerry Miculek did a video with clear ballistics gel that shows it well with 750gr AMAX (which is much more frangible than FMJ, and it still sucks). It’s a pistol wound for 18+ inches.

View attachment 725252



The myth of the 50 BMG and “ft-lbs of energy” go hand in hand. There are multiple US mil personal that have been shot by 50 bmg’s from ND’s at near contact distance and are perfectly fine. One tried to attack the guy who did it- after he took a round through the hip. It’s all BS.

I have shot and seen shot enough living things with .50’s that I would 100% rather use a fragmenting varmint bullet from a .224, than any 50cal FMJ.

Here is the related Jerry Miculek test video for those interested in a more comprehensive look:

And another test video:

 

[roadrunner]

Not that I can share. .50 BMG FMJ’s are not designed to upset, have very thick jackets and tend to not upset at all in normal animals.

However Jerry Miculek did a video with clear ballistics gel that shows it well with 750gr AMAX (which is much more frangible than FMJ, and it still sucks). It’s a pistol wound for 18+ inches.

View attachment 725252



The myth of the 50 BMG and “ft-lbs of energy” go hand in hand. There are multiple US mil personal that have been shot by 50 bmg’s from ND’s at near contact distance and are perfectly fine. One tried to attack the guy who did it- after he took a round through the hip. It’s all BS.

I have shot and seen shot enough living things with .50’s that I would 100% rather use a fragmenting varmint bullet from a .224, than any 50cal FMJ.

Anecdotal evidence

I think you need to go back and edit your post. You have some inaccuracies...

 

[mt terry d]

You're right, maybe I should tell them 22lr.
If you cant handle a little discomfort from recoil then maybe you should stay out of the woods

The big thing about recoil isn't discomfort.

If a new hunter wants to shoot elk at 600 yards then 22LR
would be the ethical choice.

Guaranteed he'll wound less animals.

 

[Billy Goat]

 

[NevadaMike]

View attachment 725281

Hey I love dumpster fires! I can get the tone, roll out and do some hero shit and be back in the barn in 30 minutes. My recliner never cools off. Fun stuff

 

[DangerRanger]

Never has been

 

[madcalfe]

Ive only ever owned 1 cartridge.
I'm on my 3rd 300wsm now and have no need to go to smaller caliber.
Although a 7mm-300wsm has peaked my interests.

 

[Ozarkansas]

A lot of people here are saying that small calibers work well with “today’s bullets”, I guess meaning tipped match bullets, but there’s really nothing advanced about those bullets besides their sleekness. I don’t think the results in the .223/6/6.5 kill threads are all that different from what I’ve seen from gamekings or other “soft” cup and core bullets that have been around for decades. Someone else with lots of experience please correct me if you disagree, but the trend seems to be less about “modern” bullets being better, and more about modern hunters being more willing to go against the traditional logic of high weight retention and deep penetration.

For example, The Nosler ballistic tip was invented in 1984, it’s hardly a “modern” bullet anymore but it performs great.
A Sierra gameking 85 grain BTHP out of a 6mm remington/.243 is a combo I would put against a similar weight TMK/ELD-M any day out to 300 yards, and it’s been around longer than most of us have been alive

 

[Shō[t]gun]

A lot of people here are saying that small calibers work well with “today’s bullets”, I guess meaning tipped match bullets, but there’s really nothing advanced about those bullets besides their sleekness. I don’t think the results in the .223/6/6.5 kill threads are all that different from what I’ve seen from gamekings or other “soft” cup and core bullets that have been around for decades. Someone else with lots of experience please correct me if you disagree, but the trend seems to be less about “modern” bullets being better, and more about modern hunters being more willing to go against the traditional logic of high weight retention and deep penetration.

For example, The Nosler ballistic tip was invented in 1984, it’s hardly a “modern” bullet anymore but it performs great.
A Sierra gameking 85 grain BTHP out of a 6mm remington/.243 is a combo I would put against a similar weight TMK/ELD-M any day out to 300 yards, and it’s been around longer than most of us have been alive

The design of the cup/core isn’t anything new or special. It’s really more the modern twist rates that allow higher weight, higher BC/SD bullets of the same design allowing more accuracy, consistency, and penetration compared to classic SAAMI specs at each caliber.

 

[Ozarkansas]

The design of the cup/core isn’t anything new or special. It’s really more the modern twist rates that allow higher weight, higher BC/SD bullets of the same design allowing more accuracy, consistency, and penetration compared to classic SAAMI specs at each caliber.

I agree, it’s less about a change in bullet technology and more about these fast-twist designs becoming mainstream. The 22 CM, 6 CM, and 300 PRC are basicallly just a 22-250, .243, and 300 WSM optimized for heavy bullets.

The 6.5s and 7mms used to be some of the only calibers that all had fast twist rates. They also coincidentally had great reputations on big game, even in the era of big-bore magnums.

But a traditional .243 or .25-06 can still stabilize bullets with better SDs than the 77 grain TMK, I’m sure there were guys in the 80s killing elk and moose with those calibers too. They just didn’t have the ability to prove their effectiveness on the internet like we do now.

 

[Billinsd]

View attachment 723910

Hey, I was drinking my coffee!!!

 

[roadrunner]

I’m sure there were guys in the 80s killing elk and moose with those calibers too. They just didn’t have the ability to prove their effectiveness on the internet like we do now.

Or didn't care what anyone thought because they knew it worked for them.

 

[87TT]

This is all I hear.

 

[Article 4]

Here is the related Jerry Miculek test video for those interested in a more comprehensive look:

And another test video:

Didnt know Jerry was a scientist?

There are two recent studies that were done on the affect of 50 BMG on humans. One by the NIH which showed overpressure affects on cerebral tissue and function. Good short read.

Overpressure Exposure From .50-Caliber Rifle Training Is Associated With Increased Amyloid Beta Peptides in Serum - PMC

Background: Overpressure (OP) is an increase in air pressure above normal atmospheric levels. Military personnel are repeatedly exposed to low levels of OP caused by various weapon systems. Repeated OP may increase risk of neurological disease or ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The second by which was researched and published by Dr Andrew at the White Mountain Forensics lab is conclusive:

As the bullet enters the body it crushes and shreds tissue in its path – this creates a permanent cavity – the “bullet hole”. In addition, the energy of the impact is dissipated in a shock wave that radially flings surrounding tissue away from the path of the projectile, creating a cavity larger than the diameter of the bullet, this is the temporary stress cavity. The temporary stress cavity exists for around 5 to 10 milliseconds with a series of gradually smaller pulsations & contractions before the formation of a permanent wound track.

The ultimate extent of the wound is determined by the kinetic energy on impact, extent of the temporary cavity and the amount of bullet fragmentation.

.357 MAGNUM WOUND – Wound profiles by Martin Fackler *

When a 50 BMG bullet hits a human body, it can cause a permanent cavity, or "bullet hole", by shredding and crushing tissue in its path. The impact's energy also creates a shock wave that pushes surrounding tissue away from the bullet's path, forming a temporary cavity that's larger than the bullet's diameter. The amount of force a 50 BMG round can produce depends on the weapon it's fired from, the type of bullet and powder used, and can range from 10,000 to 15,000 foot-pounds force (14,000 to 20,000 J)

Energy and pressure waves from ALL PROJECTILES disrupting human and animals is ruled by kinetic energy and waves of pressure. A general rule - The larger and faster the projectile, the additive affect.

 

[Article 4]

A lot of people here are saying that small calibers work well with “today’s bullets”, I guess meaning tipped match bullets, but there’s really nothing advanced about those bullets besides their sleekness. I don’t think the results in the .223/6/6.5 kill threads are all that different from what I’ve seen from gamekings or other “soft” cup and core bullets that have been around for decades. Someone else with lots of experience please correct me if you disagree, but the trend seems to be less about “modern” bullets being better, and more about modern hunters being more willing to go against the traditional logic of high weight retention and deep penetration.

For example, The Nosler ballistic tip was invented in 1984, it’s hardly a “modern” bullet anymore but it performs great.
A Sierra gameking 85 grain BTHP out of a 6mm remington/.243 is a combo I would put against a similar weight TMK/ELD-M any day out to 300 yards, and it’s been around longer than most of us have been alive

Agree here to a certain extent. Bullet technology has grown leaps and bounds in more than just design, consistency has also gotten better from a qual control perspective.

I love the original accubond - and the original core lokt etc....but from a BC, wind, and downrange perspective they dont hold up

I have always lived by the notion that "At what point in the animals death did the bullet fail" A perfect shot will nearly always end with a perfect result. It is when the shot isnt quite perfect, you often find adding size and energy matters.

 

[Point Man]

I wonder what projectiles hunter will be arguing about in 50 more years from now. Should be pretty interesting. Hope we're still fortunate enough to still have guns then.

 

[Choupique]

wonder what projectiles hunter will be arguing about in 50 more years from now.

Why its senseless to use big giant capacitors on your laser when small ones work just fine.

 

[Njmarshall]

I can’t imagine sending anything less than the biggest I can at a moose. I’m afraid it has become “the cool kid thing” to see how light you can go and still kill. I seen a kid kill a big grizz with a .22lr, it was an accident, he wasn’t trying, and he got investigated. But one shot from a .22lr laid him down in his tracks, but that definitely doesn’t mean that’s what I would want to go after a grizz with.

 

[atmat]

Anecdotal evidence

I think you need to go back and edit your post. You have some inaccuracies...

A gel test is anecdotal? That’s an interesting take.