Iron Will insert with Slick Trick? Insert depth?

[Idaboy]

Going back to RIP 204 arrows (prior had 246 arrows). Shoot a slick trick and have loads of them so didn't want to change BH, but am messing with inserts. Trying Iron Will and got an insert tool with it, but looks like it will push insert too deep for the slick trick. Does the easton tool go this deep? Or should I just try to "eyeball" it....hadn't had to mess with 204 insert systems before. Pictures show the small gap. Seems like you would want broadhead shank to meet/seat against the metal of insert (like in the picture with the pencil)....appreciate any advice!

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Better to seat the insert a little too deep than too shallow. Too shallow could cause a gap between the front of the shaft and the rear shoulder of the broadhead. If you want the insert seated just right for those particular broadheads, screw the insert onto the broadhead then glue it in (instead of using the tool).

 

[Idaboy]

Better to seat the insert a little too deep than too shallow. Too shallow could cause a gap between the front of the shaft and the rear shoulder of the broadhead. If you want the insert seated just right for those particular broadheads, screw the insert onto the broadhead then glue it in (instead of using the tool).

That's kinda what I thought, but figured if epoxy in that way, then BH would be likely to be glued in too? And I would want to unscrew it easily

 

[Aces11]

I’d give Kimsha hot melt a try. They sell it on iron will website.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

That's kinda what I thought, but figured if epoxy in that way, then BH would be likely to be glued in too? And I would want to unscrew it easily

That's a possibility. Most of the epoxy should get pushed along with/ahead of the insert as you seat it, but there will likely be some excess that could adhere to the BH shank. You might be able to unscrew and remove the BH before the epoxy sets while leaving the insert behind. You might accidentally pull the insert out trying to do that though.

The best strategy IMO would be to just use the insert tool as it's intended to be used. Seating the insert a little deeper than necessary won't hurt anything. The BH shank doesn't have to be butted up against the insert. You just need to get a few threads engaged to pull the BH shoulder tight against the front of the shaft.

 

[Stache Attack]

Use the slick trick to insert. Three on insert then back off one or 1.5 rotation. Hot or cold melt the insert then shove it in. Or do dry fits with some string wax and see if the threads still grab using iron will tool. If it does get too deep use a small weight tool or something small at the nock end drive it out. Lotta potential energy when you arrow flip/flick something like that. Carbon express used to make arrow inserts and I’d always check glue in with those so I knew if my bond was good.

 

[Stache Attack]

That's a possibility. Most of the epoxy should get pushed along with/ahead of the insert as you seat it, but there will likely be some excess that could adhere to the BH shank. You might be able to unscrew and remove the BH before the epoxy sets while leaving the insert behind. You might accidentally pull the insert out trying to do that though.

The best strategy IMO would be to just use the insert tool as it's intended to be used. Seating the insert a little deeper than necessary won't hurt anything. The BH shank doesn't have to be butted up against the insert. You just need to get a few threads engaged to pull the BH shoulder tight against the front of the shaft.

Most guys over use the epoxy, one small wipe around the insert and good

 

[MattB]

You are overthinking this. With the HIT system the BH seats on the front of the shaft and not on the insert.

 

[Idaboy]

You are overthinking this. With the HIT system the BH seats on the front of the shaft and not on the insert.

I understand that, it's just that the slick trick ferrule/shaft is shorter so only about 1/2 the threads will be in the insert....I have a love hate relationship with insert/outserts (in the less than.246 shafts, ran GT hunters for many years), and so hoping to make a good strong system that fits well and no weak pts

 

[butcherboy]

Use low heat hot melt glue. It’s softer and not so brittle. I use the iron will insert tool with no issues whatsoever. I hold the insert in a pair
of pliers and put the hot melt on the insert. Quickly heat up the insert a little and slide it into the end of the arrow. Grab the insert tool and push the insert in all the way. Move to the next arrow. When the glue sets it will come right off the end of the arrow. Or, like others have said, screw the broadhead in and glue the whole system in but use hot melt glue.

 

[5MilesBack]

The shank on those ST's looks awfully short. Reminds me of first generation Ramcats that could barely even catch a single thread in my HIT's before bottoming out on the shaft. If you change the depth shorter, then FP's will have a gap between them and the shaft. I'd just use different BH's.

 

[Idaboy]

The shank on those ST's looks awfully short. Reminds me of first generation Ramcats that could barely even catch a single thread in my HIT's before bottoming out on the shaft. If you change the depth shorter, then FP's will have a gap between them and the shaft. I'd just use different BH's.

Agree, Yeah it's kinda weird....had prior 246 GT arrows and didn't have to worry...I am nearly fully tuned and run ST for many years now with quite a few extra BH so hated to make a huge change over

 

[Idaboy]

The shank on those ST's looks awfully short. Reminds me of first generation Ramcats that could barely even catch a single thread in my HIT's before bottoming out on the shaft. If you change the depth shorter, then FP's will have a gap between them and the shaft. I'd just use different BH's.

Do you shoot RIP TKO? If so what insert and/or BH combo are you running? Thanks

 

[MattB]

I understand that, it's just that the slick trick ferrule/shaft is shorter so only about 1/2 the threads will be in the insert....I have a love hate relationship with insert/outserts (in the less than.246 shafts, ran GT hunters for many years), and so hoping to make a good strong system that fits well and no weak pts

Based on the 2nd picture you posted, it looks like the threaded section of the BH ferrule will screw almost all the way into the insert, but the front of the insert won't seat against the shoulder on the BH shank. I wouldn't worry about that.

 

[Idaboy]

Based on the 2nd picture you posted, it looks like the threaded section of the BH ferrule will screw almost all the way into the insert, but the front of the insert won't seat against the shoulder on the BH shank. I wouldn't worry about that.

That is my exact concern, and reason I posted...when I dry fit them there seems to be potential for wobble (if the broadhead shaft isn't snug the insert, with the small gap) but maybe once insert is glued in, the broadhead ferrule/shoulder will snug against the arrowshaft (I have my arrowshaft good and square) .....the IW insert seems to fit a little tighter (good) inside the 204 shaft so when it glues in should be more true (than an insert that doesn't fit as tight and could have a few degrees of angulation leading to wobble).....I think I will just hot melt some in and see how a few turn out

 

[Tilzbow]

Did you forget the washer on the Slick Trick?

Either way, as others have stated, I don’t think it matters since the broadhead will seat against the shaft.

 

[MattB]

That is my exact concern, and reason I posted...when I dry fit them there seems to be potential for wobble (if the broadhead shaft isn't snug the insert, with the small gap) but maybe once insert is glued in, the broadhead ferrule/shoulder will snug against the arrowshaft (I have my arrowshaft good and square) .....the IW insert seems to fit a little tighter (good) inside the 204 shaft so when it glues in should be more true (than an insert that doesn't fit as tight and could have a few degrees of angulation leading to wobble).....I think I will just hot melt some in and see how a few turn out

Alignment with the HIT system is primarily driven by the end of the shaft (not by the ferrule/insert connection) so squaring is important both for concentricity and for strength.

 

[Idaboy]

Alignment with the HIT system is primarily driven by the end of the shaft (not by the ferrule/insert connection) so squaring is important both for concentricity and for strength.

^^^ good advice.
Thanks man. Appreciate it....I tend to over obsess about these details....but its my hunting rig! Just out of curiosity what arrow/insert and or broadhead (if fixed blade) are you running?

 

[MattB]

400 Axis/std HIT/ IW Ti collar/Vortex 125 gr. steel usually

 

[Idaboy]

My next upgrade will probably be to IW or Day6...gotta save up for that!