IOWA - Water pollution & Livestock

[Stache Attack]

Any local farmers or producers in MIDWEST who can answer: are they increasing tillage to stratify phos in the soil so they can apply more manure?
What tillage system do you most commonly see ie, conventional, reduced, or no-till?
Are pig farmers required to use a nitrogen stabilizer to liquid manure? Seems like they could prevent some N leaching/volatility. You guys deal with way more rain/moisture than we do up here so these are honest questions I have not stabs at your production system!

 

[KurtR]

In north central South Dakota it is almost 100% no till. Have to get to the east side of the state before you see any.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

I agree with this and don’t know if Iowa has much for buffer strips around erodible areas. Some towns in Montana are the exact same usually farming communities. I’ve only helped up here with nitrates and we get much less water from the sky but some irrigation around. I did CAFO permitting for a while while crop consulting for feed lots and you’re correct on the P monitoring and not watching N when it comes to getting rid of manure. I assume the natural resource/soil conservation districts are in charge of N and they really do a poor job IMO. We will and are having down regulation of nutrient management and the only way we are going to have a say as grower groups is to get in front of it ourselves before they drop their regs.

In Iowa, the Department of Natural Resources reviews and approves all manure management plans. This is required before any new confiements or feed lots are approved. However, it would false to say that corruption doesn't exist and that these decisions aren't sometimes influenced by local politics. Here's a great example.

https://www.iowapublicradio.org/env...ues-iowa-dnr-over-feedlot-in-driftless-region

“If we can't protect one of our outstanding Iowa waters, the very best that we have, then we all have to take a step back and say we really can't protect anything in Iowa if we can't protect Bloody Run,” Steve Veysey, a retired Iowa State University chemist, told Iowa Public Radio in June.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Any local farmers or producers in MIDWEST who can answer: are they increasing tillage to stratify phos in the soil so they can apply more manure?
What tillage system do you most commonly see ie, conventional, reduced, or no-till?
Are pig farmers required to use a nitrogen stabilizer to liquid manure? Seems like they could prevent some N leaching/volatility. You guys deal with way more rain/moisture than we do up here so these are honest questions I have not stabs at your production system!

Hog farmers used to broadcast slurried manure out the back of the honey wagons on top of the ground. In more recent times, tankers have been fitted with a single stage disk and nozzles that allow it to be knifed into the ground. However, that doesn't prevent it from creating standing pools of effluent in the furrows. Often the same ground receives multiple applications as well. This has alwasy bugged me, because if 50,000 gallons are spilled out on top of the ground it's considered an incident. If 100,000 gallons are applied to a field 4-6" deep its not. Sometimes it takes days for the slurry to be absorbed into the ground, and if we get a good rain during that time, well you what runs downhill.

I have no idea on N stabilizers. However, my understanding is that the phosphorous is what causes the aglal blooms, massive weed growth, and foamy gnarly looking water.

 

[Stache Attack]

Hog farmers used to broadcast slurried manure out the back of the honey wagons on top of the ground. In more recent times, tankers have been fitted with a single stage disk and nozzles that allow it to be knifed into the ground. However, that doesn't prevent it from creating standing pools of effluent in the furrows. Often the same ground receives multiple applications as well. This has alwasy bugged me, because if 50,000 gallons are spilled out on top of the ground it's considered an incident. If 100,000 gallons are applied to a field 4-6" deep its not. Sometimes it takes days for the slurry to be absorbed into the ground, and if we get a good rain during that time, well you what runs downhill.

I have no idea on N stabilizers. However, my understanding is that the phosphorous is what causes the aglal blooms, massive weed growth, and foamy gnarly looking water.

Could run a phos stabilizer too. I assume the blooms are due to surface run off as it does not move through the soil easily. That’s why I was wondering stratification. Think knifed in and stabilized would fix most the phos run off. That’s a ton of volume depending on levels from manure test

 

[Forestryguy]

I believe nitrogen stabilizers are supposed to be used when applying nitrogen to keep it in the soil and prevent leeching. I know a few years back they made a big deal about the nitrogen levels in the Des Moines river, and you saw more people using stabilizers. Never really looked into it after that, but I’m curious what impact it’s making.

Honestly every part of the state has brown dirty looking rivers, except the NE corner where there’s more hills and less farmland. Guys farm up to the banks of rivers, disc up grass waterways and plant through them, and there’s tile lines in every field. All that runoff ends up in the rivers and streams. Crazy to think they used to run barges up the river I live near. Now you can hardly get a jon boat up and down it.

When was the last time you were up in NE Iowa? After almost any rain even of moderate amount the streams are running brown for days (Big Paint Creek, running from Waukon to the Mississippi River). After large rain events even isolated streams are brown for days (i.e. Little Paint Creek in Yellow River State Forest. Its main spring is on a hill side just below tilled field with a forest buffer.) The Upper Iowa River is mostly brown year round and a ditch for about 10 miles from the mouth of the Mississippi, to drain all the fields.

The chemicals your local municipalities put into your water supply are far worse for you than any of this. Invent in a RO system for your house and you have nothing to worry about.

Can you site examples of this? There use to be a sales man the sold Tordon when it first came out. He said it wa safe enough to drink, Im pretty sure he died of cancer or his insides rotting out.

In Iowa, the Department of Natural Resources reviews and approves all manure management plans. This is required before any new confiements or feed lots are approved. However, it would false to say that corruption doesn't exist and that these decisions aren't sometimes influenced by local politics. Here's a great example.

https://www.iowapublicradio.org/env...ues-iowa-dnr-over-feedlot-in-driftless-region

“If we can't protect one of our outstanding Iowa waters, the very best that we have, then we all have to take a step back and say we really can't protect anything in Iowa if we can't protect Bloody Run,” Steve Veysey, a retired Iowa State University chemist, told Iowa Public Radio in June.

I remember when they started this CAFO. They actually started it sometime between 2016/17. They did not pull any permits at first and got stopped after complaints were filed. Somehow they got a permit for the operation. It sits less than a mile from Bloody Run Creek at the head of a ravine running to the creek. If I remember right I think they even filled part of the ravine in to place to manner holding tank (several 10's of thousands of gallons). If they ever have a failure it is all going right to the creek, which is one of the better natural spawning creeks for Native Cut Throats. I am sure there has been significant runoff after some of the large rain events over the years.

Could run a phos stabilizer too. I assume the blooms are due to surface run off as it does not move through the soil easily. That’s why I was wondering stratification. Think knifed in and stabilized would fix most the phos run off. That’s a ton of volume depending on levels from manure test

To me 4-6 inches of knifing depth still qualifies as surface application. Most wells for homes are considered shallow wells that are fed by surface water.

In NE Iowa farming was historically Dairy. There was a lot more pasture for grazing on the steep slopes. Fields were rotated with strips of may/alfafa, corn and oats for feed. As the smaller farms have gone by the way side, mono row crops are in almost every available acre, even the steeper slopes that should be grazed or put in a conservation program.

 

[Stache Attack]

When was the last time you were up in NE Iowa? After almost any rain even of moderate amount the streams are running brown for days (Big Paint Creek, running from Waukon to the Mississippi River). After large rain events even isolated streams are brown for days (i.e. Little Paint Creek in Yellow River State Forest. Its main spring is on a hill side just below tilled field with a forest buffer.) The Upper Iowa River is mostly brown year round and a ditch for about 10 miles from the mouth of the Mississippi, to drain all the fields.

Can you site examples of this? There use to be a sales man the sold Tordon when it first came out. He said it wa safe enough to drink, Im pretty sure he died of cancer or his insides rotting out.

I remember when they started this CAFO. They actually started it sometime between 2016/17. They did not pull any permits at first and got stopped after complaints were filed. Somehow they got a permit for the operation. It sits less than a mile from Bloody Run Creek at the head of a ravine running to the creek. If I remember right I think they even filled part of the ravine in to place to manner holding tank (several 10's of thousands of gallons). If they ever have a failure it is all going right to the creek, which is one of the better natural spawning creeks for Native Cut Throats. I am sure there has been significant runoff after some of the large rain events over the years.

To me 4-6 inches of knifing depth still qualifies as surface application. Most wells for homes are considered shallow wells that are fed by surface water.

In NE Iowa farming was historically Dairy. There was a lot more pasture for grazing on the steep slopes. Fields were rotated with strips of may/alfafa, corn and oats for feed. As the smaller farms have gone by the way side, mono row crops are in almost every available acre, even the steeper slopes that should be grazed or put in a conservation program.

Good to know! You think a good pasture around all water bodies would help the run off? How much erosion you seeing? I’ve never been just referencing the permits I’ve dealt on in MT. And that’s mostly solid manure besides some chicken and hog. Nitrogen I would think in that type of rainfall would move into shallow wells. Depending on pH your phos would tie up rather rapidly at 2-6”

In no way doubting you I’m not there I’m just trying to understand this! We’ve broadcasted tankers of hog manure, but have fields treated only 5-7 years Dryland so 10-14” moisture a year and pH from 7.5-8.3. Ties up quite fast in calcareous soils.

 

[Iowafarmer]

It runs the down the street and then eventually gets treated. I don't think how you explain it is how it happens, based on my direct conversation with a wastewater employee. Also i think connecting that to the sanitary main is illegal..

Combination storm/sanitary sewers are illegal and you would have to explain to me how it gets treated after it’s running down the street? Pretty sure it runs directly to river

 

[TSAMP]

Combination storm/sanitary sewers are illegal and you would have to explain to me how it gets treated after it’s running down the street? Pretty sure it runs directly to river

In des moines, storm drains run to retention ponds or straight to waterways, but the entire downtown area is combined sewers so 100% of that gets fully treated, all sewer overflows to waterways in des moines have been shut off

 

[Iowafarmer]

In des moines, storm drains run to retention ponds or straight to waterways, but the entire downtown area is combined sewers so 100% of that gets fully treated, all sewer overflows to waterways in des moines have been shut off

100% gets treated until a heavy rain then the plant can’t handle it and bypasses

 

[Iowafarmer]

Again, with respect, this is just an excuse, not a justification. Farming is a profession just like any other. You're basically saying that farmers just do the bare minimum from a continuing ed and learning perspective. If I only did the bare minimum every year, I would've been let go years ago. In technology, there is always somebody waiting in the wings, foreign or domestic, waiting to take your position. Everyone is replaceable. The same goes for the trades and every other field. Welders, plubmers, builders, framers, Doctors, line workers, you name the profession, if they want to get ahead and effectively compete they must learn and know how to apply new processes, techniques, and technology to reduce cost and add value.

I'm a conservative freedom loving guy. As a result, I'm very hesitant to recommend adding new rules and regulations that make people do the right thing. I much prefer the carrott over the stick. However, as a farmer, if you're saying that regulation, new laws, and penalties are the best ways to drive behanvior change to support soil conservation, and reduce nutrient and pollution runoff, then maybe that is what's needed. I dont' know the answer either.

I understand there are tradeoffs. I know insects like to overwinter in plant residues, emergence can be delayed with heavy crop residues, and conventional tillage for weed control is off the table. However, given the choice of conventional tillage and the inevitable soil erosion and ultimate loss of the very resource necessary for growing food vs. the challenges associated with no-till, I will go with no-till and soil conservation every time. When the rich organic matter is gone and all you have left is sand and clay, you know better than I do what happens. They're not making more dirt and it doesn't matter how much manure you put on a bare patch, once its gone its gone.


That's an impressive achievement and my hat's off to you. How old are you? Was farm ground going for $20,000/ac when you first started?

Not any ground around here going for $20000/ac but then we don’t raise 300bu corn in my area if we hit 200 field average we get pretty excited just bought another 80 this winter at 5k/ac I thought that was crazy money for what it was but it adjoined me so I had to have it

 

[wnelson14]

It absolutely boggles my mind when people claim the term “people got to eat” “we have to feed the nation” references to midwest corn and soybean production. No food is produced there. Yes 30% goes to feed animals I get that, but no one needs corn syrup or soy products.

 

[gabenzeke]

It absolutely boggles my mind when people claim the term “people got to eat” “we have to feed the nation” references to midwest corn and soybean production. No food is produced there. Yes 30% goes to feed animals I get that, but no one needs corn syrup or soy products.

Same. I was going to point this out too. None of this is turned into anything our ancestors would have deemed edible.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

 

[IsThisHeaven]

It absolutely boggles my mind when people claim the term “people got to eat” “we have to feed the nation” references to midwest corn and soybean production. No food is produced there. Yes 30% goes to feed animals I get that, but no one needs corn syrup or soy products.

Farm bureau marketing. Farm bureau runs the state.

 

[Axle]

Not any ground around here going for $20000/ac but then we don’t raise 300bu corn in my area if we hit 200 field average we get pretty excited just bought another 80 this winter at 5k/ac I thought that was crazy money for what it was but it adjoined me so I had to have it

hey that sounds cheap to me. I am in central KS (no irrigation) and land prices have been going crazy here. Land usually stays in the family in this community but there have been a few auctions in the last couple months. One 80 sold for $7k an acre. I thought that was high. Last week about 200 acres sold for right at $13k per acre a few miles from my place. It was right close to a couple guys home places and I guess they both really wanted it. This is nowhere near any city. Just farmers bidding against each other. I don’t see how the numbers work on that.

My family farms but I work construction most of the year. Just help out with harvest for the most part. I would have to look at the numbers again, but average for the last five years is about 130-140 bu/acre with corn.

 

[cuerro viejo]

I'm an Iowa native. and grew up in Des Moines. I went to college in Waverly, a town of around 10k people in Northeast Iowa. I've lived in West Central Iowa on the farm near a town of 1,000 for 20 years. As a result, I've seen, lived, worked, hunted, and traveled across a large swath of the state.

- More than 80% of the state of Iowa has been transformed by intensive agriculture since the 1800s.
- The state of Iowa has undergone the greatest amount of man-made change than any other state.
- North Central Iowa was wetlands and swamps as far as the eye could see before vast networks of drainage dithces and tile were installed to drain it.
- Some farmers still use aggressive moldboard or chisel plows instead of moving to reduced tillage methods. This leaves the soil (and the chemicals bound to it) 100% exposed to every form of erosion. That is why we have "snirt" all winter.
- Every year as farms are consolidated and grow larger, hundreds of miles of fencelines are removed, dramatically increasing sustained winds, reducing upland habitat, and increasing erosion.
- Marginal ground is farmed throughout the state to support the ethanol and food industries. Drive down I80 and you will see that farmers continue to farm straight up and down hills vastly increasing erosion. This is why the corn and beans are a foot high on top of the hills and 3 feet high in bottoms. This is also why creeks banks get steeper and wider every year.
- To provide "cheap" food, and as the result of decades of detrimental farming practices, more and more fertilizer has to be added to fields to make up for what's been lost due to erosion.
- Des Moines Water Works has the most expensive water treatment plant *in the world* due to the massive amount of pollutants entering the Raccon River watershed from intensive farming and livestock runoff.
- Unchecked urban sprawl in Central Iowa removes hundreds of acres of the most productive soil in the world every year. This puts more pressure on marginal land to produce more.
- IT IS IMPOSSIBLE for a young person to choose to be a farmer. If you are not born into a farming family with several hundred or thousand acres, or can seduce a wealthy land investor, farming is not a feasible profession. Case in point, an average 50 acre pacrel of ground near Coon Rapids, IA, recently sold for over $1,000,000. There is nothing remarkable about this piece of land at all, and I don't think it's even tiled. Here are some rough approximations on the profitability and financing for this transaction.

- 50 acres of land
- 250 bushels of corn per acre (just a guess)
- $6 per bushel (today's price)
- Gross revenue--> (50*250*$6)= $75,000
- Wages, fuel, chemicals, fertilizer, taxes, equipment lease/maint.--> $700/acre (just a guess) = $35,000 in expenses
- Net revenue of $40,000
- How does one secure over $1,000,000 in financing on a piece of land with only $40k in revenue?

These problems are complex and not the sole responsiblity or fault of farmers and livestock producers. However, the incentives to maximize production vs. producing responsibly are way out of balance. The agriculture and livestock lobbies hold massive influence in this state, and politicians know they cannot be elected without their support. I'm 48 years old and lived here all my life. CRP and CREP, and other conservation programs are phenomenal means to improve land stewardship and habitat in the state, but the number of eligible and enrolled acres pales in comparison to those being produced. I don't see any substantive changes coming to this state in my lifetime if history is any predictor.

CRP, CREP, WRP have individual $ caps. Just like rest of farm programs.

 

[TSAMP]

100% gets treated until a heavy rain then the plant can’t handle it and bypasses

That was a thing many years ago. These retention ponds handle millions of gallons now and it hasn't been an issue in the last 10 years. This is not just my opinion, as I said before, I have a good friend that works in wastewater for the city who I badger repeatedly on these subjects.

 

[cuerro viejo]

That is a very weak response. In 20 years have you never attended a continuing ed session on erosion from ISU extension? Have you never been in NRCS or FSA office and seen a pamphlet on conservation practices? In 20 years on the farm you have not witnessed what happens in your garden on a small scale when you till it in the fall and leave it exposed all winter?

I'm not a farmer, but I've lived in country for 30 years. I've planted a garden, I've managed 10 acres of hay/pasture and a pond. I understand some of the challenges farmers face, and I also know that people have enormous access to information and professionals whose job it is to help them. All you have to do is pick up the phone or write an email.

In your defense, there is no such thing as status que, any full time farmer knows you can only take so much, with out giving back. A declining crop yield basis is death to a farmer. Your cost will eventually out run your income and no government program can help you as most are based off historical yield averages

Every full time farmer under stands FSA programs and even the soil bank programs to a T. You cant afford not too.

The farm program is only as good as its allowed to be via politicians and ignorant constituents. Ignorant like when obama administration cut corners out of the irrigation circles corners from the CRP program. Now all those corner are moved or disc to keeps weeds out. Use to be exception invasive pheasant habitat and “erosion” control

Threads like these are disheartening, But every non farmer knows exactly what they are talking about……..

if people want more CRP, Remove the individual caps, bring back circle corners too

 

[cuerro viejo]

Farm bureau marketing. Farm bureau runs the state.

It absolutely boggles my mind when people claim the term “people got to eat” “we have to feed the nation” references to midwest corn and soybean production. No food is produced there. Yes 30% goes to feed animals I get that, but no one needs corn syrup or soy products.

you two need to protest …. Dont eat any grains or fed meats. Boycott all grains and fed meat!!

 

[wnelson14]

you two need to protest …. Dont eat any grains or fed meats. Boycott all grains and fed meat!!

Who said I did? I have no problem with crop production for food or animal feed, but corn syrup and soy oils aren’t food.