IOWA - Water pollution & Livestock

[Chucklehead]

That is a very weak response. In 20 years have you never attended a continuing ed session on erosion from ISU extension? Have you never been in NRCS or FSA office and seen a pamphlet on conservation practices? In 20 years on the farm you have not witnessed what happens in your garden on a small scale when you till it in the fall and leave it exposed all winter?

I'm not a farmer, but I've lived in country for 30 years. I've planted a garden, I've managed 10 acres of hay/pasture and a pond. I understand some of the challenges farmers face, and I also know that people have enormous access to information and professionals whose job it is to help them. All you have to do is pick up the phone or write an email.

You think that is weak while suggesting running a multi-million dollar operation from a fresh out of college ag extension educator? or a pamphlet rack???

Know what other pamphlets are in that FSA rack?
Ones on farmer suicide.

 

[holder171]

My family farms roughly 8000 acres here in Iowa; we no till and do cover crops every year. We can’t force other farmers to use the same practices. I’m not a fan of a lot of the other practices but I can promise you if it’s not farmers ruining the ground it will be solar panels and wind turbines covering every walking inch in this state.


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[FatCampzWife]

One state over in Nebraska. . . While we don't apply as much hog manure we still pour on the fertilizer! We have numerous parts of the state with warnings for children and pregnant or nursing mothers due to high nitrates. Conveniently everyone else is fine! But they also recently noted high uranium levels in our water which is linked to fertilizers as well. . .

So maybe 60-70 years down the road they will work on holding people accountable or making changes, but I don't see anything happening in the near future.

Which fertilizers contain uranium? That's a new one to me.

 

[yfarm]

Some light reading, costs of production ISU 2023, short answer 5.50/ bushel for corn.https://www.extension.iastate.edu/agdm/crops/pdf/a1-20-2023.pdf
Read about the dead zone in the northern Gulf of Mexico from runoff down the Mississippi. Last I looked it was 200 sq miles off Louisiana
Read about dairy farms in central Florida and runoff into Okeechobee and the Indian River fish kills.
Own family farm in central Iowa, relatives in NW and SE with large operations. All operate with very thin margins with little or no land debt. All used to raise livestock, only one left, raises high grade angus in a confinement building, only one cattle buyer in his area, no negotiation is told this is what we pay, take it or leave it. Loses around $500/animal fed out to 1400 lbs.The independent cattle buyer of my childhood is long gone. Its a very tough business. In the last year have had conversations with large operators in Kansas and Minnesota, returns after expenses 2.5-3%. We all use no till, have filter strips around waterways and selectively apply N based on previous year yields obtained directly from gps based data in the combine while harvesting. Yields in the past were 150-160 bushels/acre now with selctive N application and newer hybrids see 200+ bushels/ acre, is the only reason many are still in business.

 

[Pony Soldier]

Just a side note. I'm not in Iowa but last year my 1970's baler laid down and died. No replacement parts are available.

I had to buy a new small square baler. The $14,000 baler of the 90s cost me $36,500. I asked my banker if he felt that small family farms were a viable entity. He said NO !

Most of us as small farmers are family based and supply supplementry income to what we feed ourselves with while supporting a rural lifestyle.

Large scale farms tend to be something you marry into or are born into. I guess a remote option is if you win a lottery.

The price of machinery has priced many completely out of the market. Operating a small operation with used equipment as in the past is just going away. Perhaps as fossil fuels are elimonated, the need for alchohol for the gas will diminish and new changes will follow the market.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

You think that is weak while suggesting running a multi-million dollar operation from a fresh out of college ag extension educator? or a pamphlet rack???

Know what other pamphlets are in that FSA rack?
Ones on farmer suicide.

I never suggested this. My point is that the ISU extension office is a credible and readily available resource for farmers on a myriad of subjects. When I was going through certified crop advisor certification in the 90s, the courses I took were taught by extension staff and most 1) were row crop and/or livestock producers 2) had decades of experience and 3) had advanced degrees in ag. None of them were "fresh out of college..."

Are you trying to tell me that during the winter when snow filled ditches are covered in dirt re: "snirt" that you need someone to tell you why and how to prevent it?

When you drive by the vast majority of chocolate milk colored creeks in Iowa that have row crop planted up to the edge, or see the banks colllapsed with corn growing down in the creek bed, do you need someone to tell you why and how to prevent it?

From Merriam's:
"Head-in-the-sand"
: unwilling to recognize or acknowledge a problem or situation

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

My family farms roughly 8000 acres here in Iowa; we no till and do cover crops every year. We can’t force other farmers to use the same practices. I’m not a fan of a lot of the other practices but I can promise you if it’s not farmers ruining the ground it will be solar panels and wind turbines covering every walking inch in this state.


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Thank you and I appreciate your family's use of modern farming practices. Cover crops are genius and I wish they were used more widely. Lots of guys around here are planting rye cover crops and I've heard there may be a winter wheat program these days.

I also 100% agree on the freaking wind tubines. They've completely destroyed the landscape in this part of the state and there's more every year. At night it looks like a damn Christmas tree blinking in every direction.

I don't have any issues with small scall residential or business solar installations. Main problem is that the utilities have a monopoly on them including mandating the maximum size of the array to minimize offset and ensure their margins. The only way I'd invest in solar is in an off-grid configuration with batteries.

 

[Yoder]

Farmers and these practices have been accepted for decades. Let’s not get all focused on whataboutisms. The farming industry has destroyed much of Iowa.

This made me puke in my mouth a little.

 

[huntineveryday]

I'm in Central Nebraska where the landscape is similar. We are right behind Iowa in terms of % of the land being privately owned, with the vast amount of land being used for agricultural purposes. I grew up in a rural town with grandparents that farmed, I worked for an ag dealership, then I worked for an agronomist. I now work in healthcare in a town of 3,000 surrounded by miles of continuous crop fields. The economy of agriculture dictated my entire childhood and my family's livelihood then, and it drives my community and livelihood now. If farmers aren't doing well every business in my town suffers, and my facility sees a drop in wellness visits and elective proceedures. My point is this, it's ridiculous to state that it's just farmers and lobbyists pumping politicians pockets full of money to turn a blind eye to what the farmers do to get rich. My state, my community, and my family need farms and ranches to be financially viable not just for food purposes, but for the economy it produces. Every state senator in our capital wants ag to continue to do well.

Farming is a business with high input costs and small margins. I can understand the business implications of letting acres of land sit idle. I am also a hunter and a conservationist that hates to see section after section of road to road corn fields with no space for any native flora or fauna. I think the issue is that mankind has a terrible history of over-exploiting a resource, often to the point of disaster or collapse of the resource, before steps are taken to use the resource more responsibly. The vast majority of our society has been too comfortable over-exploiting our land and water resources for decades, and the issue highlighted in that article is a by-product of that. It isn't just the farmers that need to change to fix these issues, the stresses our society put on the ag system need to be adjusted in order to keep the industry profitable while employing more environmentally sustainable practices. (Where we get our food, how much meat we eat and where we get it from, how much ethanol we use, how property taxes fund state functions and school districts, etc)

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

If farmers aren't doing well every business in my town suffers, and my facility sees a drop in wellness visits and elective proceedures. My point is this, it's ridiculous to state that it's just farmers and lobbyists pumping politicians pockets full of money to turn a blind eye to what the farmers do to get rich. My state, my community, and my family need farms and ranches to be financially viable not just for food purposes, but for the economy it produces. Every state senator in our capital wants ag to continue to do well.

I agree with most of your points here, and if the corn and soybean growers associations, farm bureaus, and beef and pork producer councils supported reasonable incentives for implementation of conservation practices, I would get on board. If farmers are truly "the first conservationists" as some publications state, they should put their money where the mouth is and mandate implementation of conservation tillage, waterways, headlands, terraces, buffer strips, riparian areas, etc... The federal government should provide permanent contracts for these projects with compensation that adjusts with inflation. Taking these acres out of production would reduce erosion and pollution and improve wildlife habitat. It would also reduce supply which should have a positive impact on commodity prices. That would be a federal program, similar to CRP, that I wouldn't mind having my tax dollars spent.

I think the issue is that mankind has a terrible history of over-exploiting a resource, often to the point of disaster or collapse of the resource, before steps are taken to use the resource more responsibly. The vast majority of our society has been too comfortable over-exploiting our land and water resources for decades, and the issue highlighted in that article is a by-product of that. It isn't just the farmers that need to change to fix these issues, the stresses our society put on the ag system need to be adjusted in order to keep the industry profitable while employing more environmentally sustainable practices. (Where we get our food, how much meat we eat and where we get it from, how much ethanol we use, how property taxes fund state functions and school districts, etc)

Agree. Throuhout history mankind has exploited the environment, moving on to new areas when local resources are exhausted. The problem is with all the new technologies we have now, we still haven't learned from the past and continue to make the same mistakes.

 

[String&stick]

Which fertilizers contain uranium? That's a new one to me.

The fertilizers don't contain uranium, but it has been shown (UNL studies confirmed) that nitrogen fertilizers and higher nitrates facilitate the release of naturally occurring uranium into groundwater where it was previously held in the soil.

 

[Okhotnik]

Farmers and these practices have been accepted for decades. Let’s not get all focused on whataboutisms. The farming industry has destroyed much of Iowa.

lol. I guess green lush non native invasive grass is more important than food now.

 

[Okhotnik]

So I’m guessing you’re a golfer and not a farmer?

Just take a look at any golf course pond in Colorado and the nitrification. Of course nitrates from a 50 pound bag of fertilizer from a Home Depot in Colorado Springs differed greatly from the nitrates in animal waste in Iowa.

These farming practices are the result of big Ag companies, with the help of our government, controlling and dictating our American diet. Just like big Pharma runs and dictates our healthcare policies. We all see the disaster this is for our health and environment.

Take a look how giant Ag GMO corn, soy beans, seed oils have been pushed into animal feed, ethanol (Primaries in Iowa) , all of our foods in the American diet and the amount of animal waste, pesticides, herbicides , water it takes to grow it plus the tens of millions in subsidies received to keep it alive and growing . Plus the millions of acres of very important CRP mowed down and removed to grow it.

 

[Sniff]

lol. I guess green lush non native invasive grass is more important than food now.

The tread is about farming practices in Iowa. Start a new thread about the shitty fertilizers on golf courses and lawns and I'll "like" it and reply with absolutely right. The point being not to derail the cost to nature of big Ag on water and land in Iowa.

 

[Chucklehead]

I never suggested this. My point is that the ISU extension office is a credible and readily available resource for farmers on a myriad of subjects. When I was going through certified crop advisor certification in the 90s, the courses I took were taught by extension staff and most 1) were row crop and/or livestock producers 2) had decades of experience and 3) had advanced degrees in ag. None of them were "fresh out of college..."

Are you trying to tell me that during the winter when snow filled ditches are covered in dirt re: "snirt" that you need someone to tell you why and how to prevent it?

When you drive by the vast majority of chocolate milk colored creeks in Iowa that have row crop planted up to the edge, or see the banks colllapsed with corn growing down in the creek bed, do you need someone to tell you why and how to prevent it?

From Merriam's:
"Head-in-the-sand"
: unwilling to recognize or acknowledge a problem or situation

Ag extension agents round here typically get a few years of experience then bail to a big ag company or a higher paying job at a university. Which is fine. Its their choice. I've gone through about 6 in the last dozen or so years for my area. Lifecycle is typically 2-4 years. None have had "several decades" of experience. Not a single one was/is a producer. In most cases they came from a farm family. Most wear polo shirts and are as white as a bed sheet. And there is a saying round here "Never trust a pale agronomist." Guys that have been farming for 40 years are gonna listen to them on how to raise a crop when they have never raised one....seems logical, he took classes on how to do it.

Truth is: Most farmers take about 10hrs of mandatory training every 3-5 years. One class for nitrogen certification and one for pesticide applicator. (if they even do it themselves.) That's it. Because that is all that is required. If things change it will because the state requires it. And maybe its time for that IDK.

What I find funny is the people that think no-till and cover crops are magic and that there aren't trade-offs. (This from a no-till guy)

Farm at scale and maybe you'd understand some of the decisions people make. Even if they are wrong.
Its easy to tell people what to do when your livelihood isn't on the line.

And point to where I said there aren't issues to address. Cause you won't find it.

 

[Iowafarmer]

So I came across this article today. The short version is its highlighting the damage livestock waste & fertilizer does to the drinking water. Not just for Iowa but those downstream as well.
Multiple comments in this article I found thought provoking and interesting. I'm posting it to hear thoughts from others. This has been on my radar for awhile with a close friend who works in wastewater. I don't particularly consider myself a climate change fanatic or any of that, but I do take notice of any group who seems to be considered beyond reproach, and in our case In Iowa farmers are high on that list.


One particular quote from it is below

"Earlier this year, the state released a report revealing that Iowa has the second-highest cancer rate in the country (behind Kentucky), and is the only state with a rising rate of cancer. Nitrate in drinking water can increase the risks of colon, kidney, and stomach cancers, but the word “nitrate” is nowhere to be found in the report. What’s your assessment of how the state has addressed water quality as a public health "


Nitrates causing cancer aside, you cannot deny our waters are in far worse shape than our neighbors. Look how many of us Iowans head north to enjoy our neighboring states lakes and streams.

Hog Poop from Iowa Is Polluting Your Water

In his new book ‘The Swine Republic,’ environmental scientist Chris Jones tells hard truths about Iowa’s agricultural industry and how its farming practices contaminate water thousands of miles away

www.outsideonline.com

Everybody wants to blame the farmers while Desmoines and Iowa city and I’m sure the majority of older cities still use combination storm and sanitary sewers any heavy rain it bypasses the treatment plant and blows manhole covers off and runs down the street. If a lift station pump goes out it bypasses straight to the river. I worked on Desmoines public library and tied 3 12” roof drains into 1 10” sanitary main. They found the money to put a grass roof on the building but not to upgrade utilities. I think I’d rather have a little hog or cattle waste in my water than human crap!!

 

[TSAMP]

Everybody wants to blame the farmers while Desmoines and Iowa city and I’m sure the majority of older cities still use combination storm and sanitary sewers any heavy rain it bypasses the treatment plant and blows manhole covers off and runs down the street. If a lift station pump goes out it bypasses straight to the river. I worked on Desmoines public library and tied 3 12” roof drains into 1 10” sanitary main. They found the money to put a grass roof on the building but not to upgrade utilities. I think I’d rather have a little hog or cattle waste in my water than human crap!!

It runs the down the street and then eventually gets treated. I don't think how you explain it is how it happens, based on my direct conversation with a wastewater employee. Also i think connecting that to the sanitary main is illegal..

 

[Iowafarmer]

I own just short of 1000ac here in Iowa I inherited nothing and married into absolutely nothing worked for every acre

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Because that is all that is required. If things change it will because the state requires it. And maybe its time for that IDK.

Again, with respect, this is just an excuse, not a justification. Farming is a profession just like any other. You're basically saying that farmers just do the bare minimum from a continuing ed and learning perspective. If I only did the bare minimum every year, I would've been let go years ago. In technology, there is always somebody waiting in the wings, foreign or domestic, waiting to take your position. Everyone is replaceable. The same goes for the trades and every other field. Welders, plubmers, builders, framers, Doctors, line workers, you name the profession, if they want to get ahead and effectively compete they must learn and know how to apply new processes, techniques, and technology to reduce cost and add value.

I'm a conservative freedom loving guy. As a result, I'm very hesitant to recommend adding new rules and regulations that make people do the right thing. I much prefer the carrott over the stick. However, as a farmer, if you're saying that regulation, new laws, and penalties are the best ways to drive behanvior change to support soil conservation, and reduce nutrient and pollution runoff, then maybe that is what's needed. I dont' know the answer either.

What I find funny is the people that think no-till and cover crops are magic and that there aren't trade-offs. (This from a no-till guy)

I understand there are tradeoffs. I know insects like to overwinter in plant residues, emergence can be delayed with heavy crop residues, and conventional tillage for weed control is off the table. However, given the choice of conventional tillage and the inevitable soil erosion and ultimate loss of the very resource necessary for growing food vs. the challenges associated with no-till, I will go with no-till and soil conservation every time. When the rich organic matter is gone and all you have left is sand and clay, you know better than I do what happens. They're not making more dirt and it doesn't matter how much manure you put on a bare patch, once its gone its gone.

I own just short of 1000ac here in Iowa I inherited nothing and married into absolutely nothing worked for every acre

That's an impressive achievement and my hat's off to you. How old are you? Was farm ground going for $20,000/ac when you first started?

 

[Stache Attack]

I’ll play devils advocate here.

Farmers in the corn belt are paid to produce as much grain as possible and as cheaply as possible. With a very high correlation between nitrogen (N) applications and crop growth/grain yields, farmers will push N applications to the max. They’ll say, “I know how much it costs me to over apply N. I don’t want to know how much it costs me to under apply N.”

Livestock producers are primarily concerned about soil test phosphorus (P) levels when it comes to applying manure. When they apply manure, they focus on the amount of P/thousand gallon vs the amount of N. This often leads to an over application of N.

P is the primary limiting nutrient when it comes to algae blooms. P primarily moves to surface waters by being tightly bound to soil particles, so soil conservation is key to prevent P loss. N can move to surface waters with soil and being dissolved in runoff water. N moves to ground water by leaching through the soil profile.

Farmers and livestock producers shield themselves from scrutiny by hiding behind statements of “cheap and secure food supply”. They are paid to produce, not save the environment.

There are several local municipal governments and consumer packaged good companies that are trying to incentivize farmer to adapt environmentally friendly practices (check out the Soil and Water Outcomes Fund), but farmers don’t like change. They like cash. And the environmentally friendly routes aren’t that lucrative.

Ideally the solution will be resolved in an open, free market by the consumer willing to pay more for products that are produced in an environmentally friendly manner that drives change in the country. I highly doubt this will be the solution though. Just take a look around at MN, WI, and MD. Legislation will quickly find its way south and west.


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I agree with this and don’t know if Iowa has much for buffer strips around erodible areas. Some towns in Montana are the exact same usually farming communities. I’ve only helped up here with nitrates and we get much less water from the sky but some irrigation around. I did CAFO permitting for a while while crop consulting for feed lots and you’re correct on the P monitoring and not watching N when it comes to getting rid of manure. I assume the natural resource/soil conservation districts are in charge of N and they really do a poor job IMO. We will and are having down regulation of nutrient management and the only way we are going to have a say as grower groups is to get in front of it ourselves before they drop their regs.