IOWA - Water pollution & Livestock

[Bearded Bowhunter]

Growing up in rural NW Iowa, most of these points are just nonsense. Certainly have no love for the chemical companies, but attacking farmers and producers won't change anything.

 

[TSAMP]

So you’re saying private land owners are responsible for wildlife management? And what level of scrutiny would you like to see imposed to fix this issue?

I am not trying to be a jerk but most people do not have a clue what it takes to make a living farming in this day and age. Fertilizers, herbicides, insecticides are regulated and there are limits to follow. There are people that abuse the system but it’s no different than an oil truck driving over the speed limit, wrecking, then spilling oil and everyone saying how bad hauling oil in tankers is.

People want and need cheap food. There are companies out there for you to support that have a more “sustainable” model but at the increased cost. If you feel that strongly about the issue and are able to afford it then support who you want but understand the greater part of the population do not have the means to make those decisions.

People should be good stewards of the land we have been given but who are you to tell someone how they should manage their land?

• Capitalism? I realize its difficult to be profitable as a farmer, The running joke of you make your money once you sell the land isnt lost on me.
• No idea why the cows died, but from the farms I am invovled with its disproportionally heavy on this one.
• Yes, I think wildlife managment is everyones responsibility.

I dont know If I havent made my intentions clear, or you just want to disagree for the fun of it, But I dont have issue with farming as a practice. I am simply calling attention to the fact that it effects others and has potentially harmful outcomes as its done today. Calling attention to it is simply a way to anaylze it further and potentially come up with solutions. If I had it all figured out I'd of pitched that idea at the beginning.

Its how this country works, We make collective decisions for the benefit of the majority. I am not telling anyone how they should manage their land, Like I said, I dont have this figured out.

 

[TSAMP]

Growing up in rural NW Iowa, most of these points are just nonsense. Certainly have no love for the chemical companies, but attacking farmers and producers won't change anything.

The definition of the words "attacking" and "nonsense" seem to be very different between us. What specifically do you find untruthful or inaccurate?

 

[SneakyThunderCat]

I believe nitrogen stabilizers are supposed to be used when applying nitrogen to keep it in the soil and prevent leeching. I know a few years back they made a big deal about the nitrogen levels in the Des Moines river, and you saw more people using stabilizers. Never really looked into it after that, but I’m curious what impact it’s making.

Honestly every part of the state has brown dirty looking rivers, except the NE corner where there’s more hills and less farmland. Guys farm up to the banks of rivers, disc up grass waterways and plant through them, and there’s tile lines in every field. All that runoff ends up in the rivers and streams. Crazy to think they used to run barges up the river I live near. Now you can hardly get a jon boat up and down it.

 

[Keith Stone]

Do you live in Iowa? Ever been? Employee of Iowa Select or Monsanto?

No/Yes/No

 

[Chucklehead]

I believe nitrogen stabilizers are supposed to be used when applying nitrogen to keep it in the soil and prevent leeching. I know a few years back they made a big deal about the nitrogen levels in the Des Moines river, and you saw more people using stabilizers. Never really looked into it after that, but I’m curious what impact it’s making.

Honestly every part of the state has brown dirty looking rivers, except the NE corner where there’s more hills and less farmland. Guys farm up to the banks of rivers, disc up grass waterways and plant through them, and there’s tile lines in every field. All that runoff ends up in the rivers and streams. Crazy to think they used to run barges up the river I live near. Now you can hardly get a jon boat up and down it.

So this is my working understanding of nitrogen "stabilizers". Take it with a grain of salt.
It kills the bacteria that transforms the ammonium form of nitrogen (which is less leachable) into the Nitrate form (which is more leachable).
Supposedly it at most buys a week or two before the process restarts.

I really don't know what effect these types of products have. But something that kills soil bacteria really gives me pause.
All I know is there is a ton of cash being poured in to the ag sector that are starting to push more environmentally friendly products. Some of them seem like snake oil however.

 

[Keith Stone]

• Capitalism? I realize its difficult to be profitable as a farmer, The running joke of you make your money once you sell the land isnt lost on me.
• No idea why the cows died, but from the farms I am invovled with its disproportionally heavy on this one.
• Yes, I think wildlife managment is everyones responsibility.

I dont know If I havent made my intentions clear, or you just want to disagree for the fun of it, But I dont have issue with farming as a practice. I am simply calling attention to the fact that it effects others and has potentially harmful outcomes as its done today. Calling attention to it is simply a way to anaylze it further and potentially come up with solutions. If I had it all figured out I'd of pitched that idea at the beginning.

Its how this country works, We make collective decisions for the benefit of the majority. I am not telling anyone how they should manage their land, Like I said, I dont have this figured out.

I’ll start by saying I am not arguing for the fun of it and I really should not have responded to this thread in the first place as it will be to little avail. My argument is when we judge a way of life from the outside it is often not painted in an accurate light. And when we make assumptions it only spreads conspiracy. If enacting change is your true goal I would think a hunting forum is a poor place to start but that is only my opinion. The issue of topics we are breezing right through take many committed years to fully understand. So it just seems more like click bait/something to argue about at a very shallow level.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

...to claim they’ve ruined much of Iowa is absurd to me. Farming has brought more to this state than it has destroyed it.

I'm an Iowa native. and grew up in Des Moines. I went to college in Waverly, a town of around 10k people in Northeast Iowa. I've lived in West Central Iowa on the farm near a town of 1,000 for 20 years. As a result, I've seen, lived, worked, hunted, and traveled across a large swath of the state.

- More than 80% of the state of Iowa has been transformed by intensive agriculture since the 1800s.
- The state of Iowa has undergone the greatest amount of man-made change than any other state.
- North Central Iowa was wetlands and swamps as far as the eye could see before vast networks of drainage dithces and tile were installed to drain it.
- Some farmers still use aggressive moldboard or chisel plows instead of moving to reduced tillage methods. This leaves the soil (and the chemicals bound to it) 100% exposed to every form of erosion. That is why we have "snirt" all winter.
- Every year as farms are consolidated and grow larger, hundreds of miles of fencelines are removed, dramatically increasing sustained winds, reducing upland habitat, and increasing erosion.
- Marginal ground is farmed throughout the state to support the ethanol and food industries. Drive down I80 and you will see that farmers continue to farm straight up and down hills vastly increasing erosion. This is why the corn and beans are a foot high on top of the hills and 3 feet high in bottoms. This is also why creeks banks get steeper and wider every year.
- To provide "cheap" food, and as the result of decades of detrimental farming practices, more and more fertilizer has to be added to fields to make up for what's been lost due to erosion.
- Des Moines Water Works has the most expensive water treatment plant *in the world* due to the massive amount of pollutants entering the Raccon River watershed from intensive farming and livestock runoff.
- Unchecked urban sprawl in Central Iowa removes hundreds of acres of the most productive soil in the world every year. This puts more pressure on marginal land to produce more.
- IT IS IMPOSSIBLE for a young person to choose to be a farmer. If you are not born into a farming family with several hundred or thousand acres, or can seduce a wealthy land investor, farming is not a feasible profession. Case in point, an average 50 acre pacrel of ground near Coon Rapids, IA, recently sold for over $1,000,000. There is nothing remarkable about this piece of land at all, and I don't think it's even tiled. Here are some rough approximations on the profitability and financing for this transaction.

- 50 acres of land
- 250 bushels of corn per acre (just a guess)
- $6 per bushel (today's price)
- Gross revenue--> (50*250*$6)= $75,000
- Wages, fuel, chemicals, fertilizer, taxes, equipment lease/maint.--> $700/acre (just a guess) = $35,000 in expenses
- Net revenue of $40,000
- How does one secure over $1,000,000 in financing on a piece of land with only $40k in revenue?

These problems are complex and not the sole responsiblity or fault of farmers and livestock producers. However, the incentives to maximize production vs. producing responsibly are way out of balance. The agriculture and livestock lobbies hold massive influence in this state, and politicians know they cannot be elected without their support. I'm 48 years old and lived here all my life. CRP and CREP, and other conservation programs are phenomenal means to improve land stewardship and habitat in the state, but the number of eligible and enrolled acres pales in comparison to those being produced. I don't see any substantive changes coming to this state in my lifetime if history is any predictor.

 

[TSAMP]

I’ll start by saying I am not arguing for the fun of it and I really should not have responded to this thread in the first place as it will be to little avail. My argument is when we judge a way of life from the outside it is often not painted in an accurate light. And when we make assumptions it only spreads conspiracy. If enacting change is your true goal I would think a hunting forum is a poor place to start but that is only my opinion. The issue of topics we are breezing right through take many committed years to fully understand. So it just seems more like click bait/something to argue about at a very shallow level.

Plenty of knowledgeable folks here on many topics. I brought it up to add exposure and educate myself. It is relevant to this crowd and worth discussion.

 

[Sniff]

I'm an Iowa native. and grew up in Des Moines. I went to college in Waverly, a town of around 10k people in Northeast Iowa. I've lived in West Central Iowa on the farm near a town of 1,000 for 20 years. As a result, I've seen, lived, worked, hunted, and traveled across a large swath of the state.

- More than 80% of the state of Iowa has been transformed by intensive agriculture since the 1800s.
- The state of Iowa has undergone the greatest amount of man-made change than any other state.
- North Central Iowa was wetlands and swamps as far as the eye could see before vast networks of drainage dithces and tile were installed to drain it.
- Some farmers still use aggressive moldboard or chisel plows instead of moving to reduced tillage methods. This leaves the soil (and the chemicals bound to it) 100% exposed to every form of erosion. That is why we have "snirt" all winter.
- Every year as farms are consolidated and grow larger, hundreds of miles of fencelines are removed, dramatically increasing sustained winds, reducing upland habitat, and increasing erosion.
- Marginal ground is farmed throughout the state to support the ethanol and food industries. Drive down I80 and you will see that farmers continue to farm straight up and down hills vastly increasing erosion. This is why the corn and beans are a foot high on top of the hills and 3 feet high in bottoms. This is also why creeks banks get steeper and wider every year.
- To provide "cheap" food, and as the result of decades of detrimental farming practices, more and more fertilizer has to be added to fields to make up for what's been lost due to erosion.
- Des Moines Water Works has the most expensive water treatment plant *in the world* due to the massive amount of pollutants entering the Raccon River watershed from intensive farming and livestock runoff.
- Unchecked urban sprawl in Central Iowa removes hundreds of acres of the most productive soil in the world every year. This puts more pressure on marginal land to produce more.
- IT IS IMPOSSIBLE for a young person to choose to be a farmer. If you are not born into a farming family with several hundred or thousand acres, or can seduce a wealthy land investor, farming is not a feasible profession. Case in point, an average 50 acre pacrel of ground near Coon Rapids, IA, recently sold for over $1,000,000. There is nothing remarkable about this piece of land at all, and I don't think it's even tiled. Here are some rough approximations on the profitability and financing for this transaction.

- 50 acres of land
- 250 bushels of corn per acre (just a guess)
- $6 per bushel (today's price)
- Gross revenue--> (50*250*$6)= $75,000
- Wages, fuel, chemicals, fertilizer, taxes, equipment lease/maint.--> $700/acre (just a guess) = $35,000 in expenses
- Net revenue of $40,000
- How does one secure over $1,000,000 in financing on a piece of land with only $40k in revenue?

These problems are complex and not the sole responsiblity or fault of farmers and livestock producers. However, the incentives to maximize production vs. producing responsibly are way out of balance. The agriculture and livestock lobbies hold massive influence in this state, and politicians know they cannot be elected without their support. I'm 48 years old and lived here all my life. CRP and CREP, and other conservation programs are phenomenal means to improve land stewardship and habitat in the state, but the number of eligible and enrolled acres pales in comparison to those being produced. I don't see any substantive changes coming to this state in my lifetime if history is any predictor.

Well said. I’m also a Wartburg Alumni. Go Knights!

 

[Rick M.]

I think we will either evolve as a species to tolerate the pollution / ecological changes generated from our activity, or we won't. Unfortunately, for the foreseeable future, current humans will continue dying from cancer until that evolutionary advancement takes place. There is a disconnect between what we know we should be doing as a species, and what is economically feasible / profitable. Profits will always come first. It's kind of crazy to ponder, but consider the idea of another species studying our demise in the future. They would see this incredibly advanced human species that drove themselves to extinction over an abstract, made up idea called money. Like George Carlin said - "The planet isn't going anywhere, we are.". RIP George.

Sorry for the tangent.

 

[Chucklehead]

• Capitalism? I realize its difficult to be profitable as a farmer, The running joke of you make your money once you sell the land isnt lost on me.
• No idea why the cows died, but from the farms I am invovled with its disproportionally heavy on this one.
• Yes, I think wildlife managment is everyones responsibility.

I dont know If I havent made my intentions clear, or you just want to disagree for the fun of it, But I dont have issue with farming as a practice. I am simply calling attention to the fact that it effects others and has potentially harmful outcomes as its done today. Calling attention to it is simply a way to anaylze it further and potentially come up with solutions. If I had it all figured out I'd of pitched that idea at the beginning.

Its how this country works, We make collective decisions for the benefit of the majority. I am not telling anyone how they should manage their land, Like I said, I dont have this figured out.

I think that is a reasonable approach. I think a growing number of farmers want to do right by the environment. But I think most just follow the status-quo. If a practice is generally accepted, most will consider it as a viable option. Remember, up to this point no one has told them any different.

Operations are almost forced to farm every square inch these days. Cost of land per acre, input costs, property taxes, it all adds up. In most cases, if you farm more acres, you put more money in your pocket.
So you can either farm that questionable piece of ground that all your neighbors would farm, or you let it sit and actually lose money on it because of the property tax. Would you do the same thing if you were in their shoes? Or risk being the guy that loses the 5th or 6th+ generation farm.

There has to be some type of incentive to not farm these questionable areas; HEL, wetland, etc.
About 10-15 years ago the payout for CRP acres dropped to almost nothing round here and so did the enrolled acres. Most said "Screw it. I'll just farm it if thats all I'm going to get."
And once something is farmed. It most likely never goes back.
CRP was a win-win-win program when it worked. It was a win for farmers. A win for hunters. And a win for the environment. The Fed just screwed it up.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Remember, up to this point no one has told them any different.

This statement is complete BS. For years, every established farmer has been told, trained, and seen how conservation practices can reduce erosion and pesticide runoff. Whether they listen, take action, and do the right thing are the questions they need to be asked. As always, it simply comes down to "what's in it for me?" Unfortunately, without reasonable incentives, human nature is what it is. "My neighbor got a brand new green planter and tractor, and have you seen his new F250?" Gotta keep up with the Jones' as they say.
Other things are common sense. For example...

When a neighbor tore out the fenclines along the roads surrounding his fields, and then chisel plowed up to and over the edge, what did he think would happen? It doesn't take a genius to predict and it shouldn't take the dozens of washouts and mountains of black dirt flooding in the ditch after the first rain to teach him a lesson. Its hard to harvest those few extra rows of crops when all the seed, and dirt, is laying in the road ditch. This is happening all over the state of Iowa and likely the midwest. Folks from the city that never get off the blacktops and interstates have no idea how pervasive erosion-inducing land practices are in this state.

There will come a point, probably not in our lifetimes, when Iowa and other places can no longer produce enough corn and beans to feed the world. The landscape will be reduced to infertile dust. We could learn a lot from the Chinese and the how they devastated the Loess Plateau with irresponsible agriculture. However, learning and taking action are two different things.

 

[Bluefish]

The numbers above are close. Yields are probably closer to 200-220 than 250. But still it takes a lot of acres to make it work. Now with farmland going for $20k + per acre, very hard for anyone to get started.
most people I know farm 1000+ acres. For that it’s potentially quite lucrative. 100000 gives an income of about $1.3 million per year. Not sure what costs run

 

[Bearded Bowhunter]

The definition of the words "attacking" and "nonsense" seem to be very different between us. What specifically do you find untruthful or inaccurate?

Didnt quote the post I was referring to for some reason. Was specifically talking about the soil quality, air quality, smells like manure all the time. Also crp enrollment in iowa is up almost 300k acres from 2016 and is not terribly far from peak enrollment in the 90's which would indicate every farmer is not just planting their ditches.

 

[Chucklehead]

This statement is complete BS. For years, every established farmer has been told, trained, and seen how conservation practices can reduce erosion and pesticide runoff. Whether they listen, take action, and do the right thing are the questions they need to be asked. As always, it simply comes down to "what's in it for me?" Unfortunately, without reasonable incentives, human nature is what it is. "My neighbor got a brand new green planter and tractor, and have you seen his new F250?" Gotta keep up with the Jones' as they say.
Other things are common sense. For example...

When a neighbor tore out the fenclines along the roads surrounding his fields, and then chisel plowed up to and over the edge, what did he think would happen? It doesn't take a genius to predict and it shouldn't take the dozens of washouts and mountains of black dirt flooding in the ditch after the first rain to teach him a lesson. Its hard to harvest those few extra rows of crops when all the seed, and dirt, is laying in the road ditch. This is happening all over the state of Iowa and likely the midwest. Folks from the city that never get off the blacktops and interstates have no idea how pervasive erosion-inducing land practices are in this state.

There will come a point, probably not in our lifetimes, when Iowa and other places can no longer produce enough corn and beans to feed the world. The landscape will be reduced to infertile dust. We could learn a lot from the Chinese and the how they devastated the Loess Plateau with irresponsible agriculture. However, learning and taking action are two different things.

You're right. I've only been on a farm for 20+ years now. What do I know what I've been told/not told to do.
I must have just missed that erosion training class.

 

[TSAMP]

Didnt quote the post I was referring to for some reason. Was specifically talking about the soil quality, air quality, smells like manure all the time. Also crp enrollment in iowa is up almost 300k acres from 2016 and is not terribly far from peak enrollment in the 90's which would indicate every farmer is not just planting their ditches.

You didnt quote anyone. If you mean to say your comment was directly after another comment and pointed specifically at that instance, You're right I missed that.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Didnt quote the post I was referring to for some reason. Was specifically talking about the soil quality, air quality, smells like manure all the time. Also crp enrollment in iowa is up almost 300k acres from 2016 and is not terribly far from peak enrollment in the 90's which would indicate every farmer is not just planting their ditches.

As of 2016, there were 1.7M acres enrolled in CRP in Iowa. I couldn't find a current number. However, there are over 30M acres farmed as of 2022 in comparison.

The type off CRP is important too. Riparian areas along streams and creeks and grass strips are different than large contiguous tracts from a conservation perspective.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

You're right. I've only been on a farm for 20+ years now. What do I know what I've been told/not told to do.
I must have just missed that erosion training class.

That is a very weak response. In 20 years have you never attended a continuing ed session on erosion from ISU extension? Have you never been in NRCS or FSA office and seen a pamphlet on conservation practices? In 20 years on the farm you have not witnessed what happens in your garden on a small scale when you till it in the fall and leave it exposed all winter?

I'm not a farmer, but I've lived in country for 30 years. I've planted a garden, I've managed 10 acres of hay/pasture and a pond. I understand some of the challenges farmers face, and I also know that people have enormous access to information and professionals whose job it is to help them. All you have to do is pick up the phone or write an email.

 

[CB4]

The chemicals your local municipalities put into your water supply are far worse for you than any of this. Invent in a RO system for your house and you have nothing to worry about.