Ignition Tuning and Bolt Maint

wind gypsy

"DADDY"
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Dec 30, 2014
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I've read comments and watched videos of certain gunsmiths talking about the "Ignition system" and have tried to watch videos to learn more. It seems like it is not something many folks consider.

I watched this video recently and found it helpful understanding the inner workings of a bolt action. I've no idea if what he says/does is the "right" way but it makes sense to me. I know Orkan is a polarizing guy but I found this video interesting and thought others might as well.


If folks have other thoughts or processes to address the concerns covered in this vid, share em up! Taylor stratton had some good vids i've watched in the past, unfortunately i only found them on his facebook.
 
Here's a quote from a world class benchrest shooter saying that tuning the firing control system is the #1 thing he'll do to a gun. He goes on to say that the firing control system and the barrel are what make the gun in his opinion.

It's a long discussion but they talk about optimizing shrouds, springs, firing pins, etc... Granted, they're working with Rem 700 style actions. I'm curious if anyone is translating this kind of work onto Tikkas.

Sitting back with a bowl of popcorn to watch the discussion and learn something new. Is this the next level of optimizing minutiae for those of us who like to tinker?
 
Good information on how take things apart. I like how he touches on the importance of low friction. Maybe future videos will touch on dos and donts of diy smoothing of contact surfaces.

I have to admit to skimming some of it, but did he ever clean out the interior of the bolt body or ejector hole?

Some might get the wrong idea and use a thicker oil in place of his use of sil-kroil and it won’t “drip dry” and shouldn’t be flooded onto parts like shown. “Lightly oiled” can be accomplished with an oily cloth and carefully covering all the surfaces enough to form a film, but not enough to drip off. Dripping or spraying anything liquid onto a bolt gives me the creeps.

One of the big controversies with hunting guns is a dry firing pin verses lightly oiled. When a wet bolt froze up and the primer required a number firing pin falls at a mulie in the scope I seriously questioned “lightly oiled”. As a test, scraping off a drop of water frozen on the surface of a dry part vs on one that’s lightly oiled convinced me a dry bolt is not the way to go, not to mention friction within the bolt assembly is higher with dry parts. Capillary action will suck water between the firing pin and bolt head, or any close fitting parts, which is cut down with some light oil on the surfaces.
 
Very little has been said online about the importance of a healthy firing pin spring. Nothing about when to replace one other than if you have any doubts just do it, or do it every XX years or XXXX rounds. How can someone tell without buying a new spring? If the new spring is a little longer does that alone make a difference or does the spring’s rate decrease with age?
 
Very little has been said online about the importance of a healthy firing pin spring. Nothing about when to replace one other than if you have any doubts just do it, or do it every XX years or XXXX rounds. How can someone tell without buying a new spring? If the new spring is a little longer does that alone make a difference or does the spring’s rate decrease with age?
I know a few bench guys, they swap firing pin springs when they swap barrels. New spring is like what, $20? They said it was just for peace of mind. I haven't changed out but a few of mine, I always store my rifles with bolt closes and de-cocked to prevent spring fatigue.
 
Very little has been said online about the importance of a healthy firing pin spring. Nothing about when to replace one other than if you have any doubts just do it, or do it every XX years or XXXX rounds. How can someone tell without buying a new spring? If the new spring is a little longer does that alone make a difference or does the spring’s rate decrease with age?
you can measure the approximate firing spring yield with a postal scale.

drill a hole in a piece of wood or somehow apply pressure to the cocking piece without touching the firing pin.
with the tip of the firing pin on the scale, push down on the cocking piece.
at ½" to ¾" movement it will read between 18 and 24 usually (Rem)
 
I back bore the bolt shroud 5/16" and relieve the sides of the cocking piece interference on all but the last bit.

One thing that gets overlooked is the trigger clearance. The walker has that dip in it to stop it from bouncing into the bolt when released.

A wonderful sauce is to mix z powder with lithium grease and use a syringe to keep the bolt shroud and lugs happy. Z powder is the magic stuff.
 
Ha Ha! Rokslide behind the curve again! Twice in about a week. Here's looking at you wind gypsy ;)

Seriously though been messing with this for 25-30 years now. Benchrest Central had many many discussions over the years. Accurate Shooter has a lot of info if you dig around a bit. Alex Wheeler started way back on BRC and went on from there. He's got a lot of thoughts on fire control systems. Speedy as mentioned above has been at a it for a very long time. Both have been very successful. Cortina did an interview with Alex that's good too.

I'd agree with the statement above about Speedy's thoughts. A good barrel and a good well functioning fire control system can save you a lot of headaches and give you a great gun rather than a poor to average gun.

I'm curious if anyone is translating this kind of work onto Tikkas.
They go bang, that's all you need in a Tikka :)
 
I've read comments and watched videos of certain gunsmiths talking about the "Ignition system" and have tried to watch videos to learn more. It seems like it is not something many folks consider.

I watched this video recently and found it helpful understanding the inner workings of a bolt action. I've no idea if what he says/does is the "right" way but it makes sense to me. I know Orkan is a polarizing guy but I found this video interesting and thought others might as well.


If folks have other thoughts or processes to address the concerns covered in this vid, share em up! Taylor stratton had some good vids i've watched in the past, unfortunately i only found them on his facebook.
I think you follow Alex Wheeler and I know he’s a huge proponent of getting the firing system as good as it can be. I think he knows a bit about putting together some accurate systems 😉
 
I'm curious if anyone is translating this kind of work onto Tikkas.
I had taylor Stratton quote some work a while back and he wouldn’t chamber a barrel for an action without going through the action (which is an extra charge). So if he woulda chambered a barrel for a tikka, he would have tuned the ignition on it.
 
I had taylor Stratton quote some work a while back and he wouldn’t chamber a battle for an action without going through the action (which is an extra charge). So if he woulda chambered a barrel for a tikka, he would have tuned the ignition on it.
Tikka’s are pretty straightforward as in pretty consistent and good manufacturing wise unlike Remington’s and Remington clones which are all over the map. It wasn’t long ago that a lot of the Remington’s clones had things that needed fixing. Fast forward to today and there are lots that are great out of the box and need little to no work.

I tear down everything for cleaning and inspection. That includes a new Tikka or Remington clone.
 
What is the cliff notes on this? If you pull the trigger, don't move the gun and eventually the firing pin hits the primer while the gun is still on its intended aim point why do we care if the gun goes bang? Does the fire control affect actual accuracy independent of the shooter or is this trying to tune out movement the shooter might make in the miliseconds between pulling the trigger and it going bang? Or is this about something completely different? (I didn't watch the LONG video).
 
Here's a quote from a world class benchrest shooter saying that tuning the firing control system is the #1 thing he'll do to a gun. He goes on to say that the firing control system and the barrel are what make the gun in his opinion.

It's a long discussion but they talk about optimizing shrouds, springs, firing pins, etc... Granted, they're working with Rem 700 style actions. I'm curious if anyone is translating this kind of work onto Tikkas.

Sitting back with a bowl of popcorn to watch the discussion and learn something new. Is this the next level of optimizing minutiae for those of us who like to tinker?
Speedy and Eric provide great value to time spent listening to them both. Jack Neary, Tim Sellers thrown in the mix and nothing but a winning combo of knowledge to shoot small consistently and help problem solve problems that arise…having there experience available to go to and provide techniques and make corrections is priceless.
 
Does the fire control affect actual accuracy independent of the shooter
Absolutely it can. Inconsistent ignition is definitely not a good thing but if you’ve got other problems in the system you may or may not notice it though.

or is this trying to tune out movement the shooter might make in the miliseconds between pulling the trigger and it going bang?
No, decreasing lock time is not the way to go as far as accuracy goes at least in a Remington system. It tends to have the opposite effect there. Light firing pins and heavy springs are generally detrimental to accuracy in those systems.
 
Absolutely it can. Inconsistent ignition is definitely not a good thing but if you’ve got other problems in the system you may or may not notice it though.


No, decreasing lock time is not the way to go as far as accuracy goes at least in a Remington system. It tends to have the opposite effect there. Light firing pins and heavy springs are generally detrimental to accuracy in those systems.
So stock firing pins can/are leading to inconsistent ignition, imperceivable to the shooter, that are translating into actual accuracy implications for an average shooter (not talking chasing 1/2" at 1000yd for F class)? What is the mechanism in play here? Assuming ES/SD aren't erratic what are we talking about in a cliff notes sense?

Sorry if I am not understanding, I didn't watch the long video and was hoping someone knowledgeable on the issue could summarize what is really in play in this discussion.
 
Cliff notes? If you’re an average shooter, not chasing the best you can do in a field rifle then do nothing, carry on and be happy with what you’ve got cause you’re likely not going to see anything change. Especially in a Tikka. Now if it’s an ancient old Remington with a gunked up pin and spring then maybe a little maintenance might help you out which I think is the gist of the first video posted.

We could go into the endless minutia on this (I’m not, BTDT) but if you’re truly interested you can do some searching on the websites I suggested and go down the rabbit hole.
 
I was making measuring spring force way too complicated and using a drill press greatly simplifies everything. With the firing pin assembly out of the bolt, chuck a 2” piece of steel or heavy wall brass tubing with 3/16” ID (to clear tip of the firing pin), put the scale on the table and protect the bolt shroud with a board with a hole, or the bolt disassembly tool housing. Press down with the chuck so the firing pin is back to the cocked position, read the number. Easy peazy.

Anyone shooting a used rifle should double check their bolts for mischief. I have a used long action bolt on the bench today that someone replaced the firing pin spring on with one intended for a short action! Did it not shoot reliably and that’s why the rifle was sold?
 
Worst I have personally seen was a buddies berger. It could shot serious big holes for usually 4 of 5 shots. 1, sometimes 2 would be a flyer. Got ignition worked on, pin bushed and fit, different spring etc. Flyers went away. Still was in his head and he sold it.
 
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