If a guy had a $3,000 budget for a hunting rifle and scope

[hereinaz]

Physical size has nothing to do with it.

Not true, I am an advocate for going smaller caliber, but size matters because a larger mass can deal with recoil energy better.

It’s why women and children shoot lighter recoiling rifles better.

 

[mt100gr.]

Not true, I am an advocate for going smaller caliber, but size matters because a larger mass can deal with recoil energy better.

It’s why women and children shoot lighter recoiling rifles better.

EVERYONE shoots lighter recoiling rifles better.

 

[TaperPin]

I recently ran across an old photo taken when the earth was flat showing a couple of rural Wyoming early teenagers out shooting prairie dogs with magnum cartridges. We were’t tough guys - rather scrawny actually - we weren’t told to shoot them, but with all the guns in the rack we choose them because it was fun. Usually I shot prairie dogs with a 243 because ammo was cheaper, but it was nice to splurge and take out a bigger gun when possible.

All the talk of larger calibers being impossible to shoot well, just doesn’t jive with much of the real world. If someone chooses to shoot a smaller caliber that’s fine, but it doesn’t mean all other shooters have to choose that path. Many kids and adults all over the west don’t mind recoil. Military snipers all over the world have transitioned to larger calibers - they shoot just fine. A half century of 1000 yard competitive shooters have used the 300 wm to set multiple records - they can shoot it just fine. Elr guys shoot big calibers quite well.

Having said all that, we all have a unique personal recoil limit, where accuracy suffers if we go above it. Wanting others to live by someone else’s limit doesn’t seem like common sense.

 

[sndmn11]

Aren't 30 carbine, 30-30, .308 Winchester, 300 win mag all the same caliber?

 

[TaperPin]

Aren't 30 carbine, 30-30, .308 Winchester, 300 win mag all the same caliber?

In some parts of the world if you ask what caliber a rifle is, the other person would reply with the specific cartridge. In those situations caliber and cartridge are more or less interchangeable.

Luckily the question was asked, so when that happens to you, you’ll be better prepared to either make the argument with graphs, charts, and dictionary quotes to the other person that they are unable to communicate properly, or you’ll better understand what the person was talking about. The one time someone actually brought this up in a gun store, we felt felt bad for the kid because the comment made him appear to be somewhat on the slow side - he was probably a perfectly normal kid.

 

[Formidilosus]

I recently ran across an old photo taken when the earth was flat showing a couple of rural Wyoming early teenagers out shooting prairie dogs with magnum cartridges. We were’t tough guys - rather scrawny actually - we weren’t told to shoot them, but with all the guns in the rack we choose them because it was fun. Usually I shot prairie dogs with a 243 because ammo was cheaper, but it was nice to splurge and take out a bigger gun when possible.

So did it. It was an expensive, poor way to learn to shoot and kill then, and it’s even worse now.

All the talk of larger calibers being impossible to shoot well

Can you quote where someone- anyone- said larger calibers are impossible to shoot well?

Many kids and adults all over the west don’t mind recoil.

It has nothing to do with “minding”. There is no human alive that shoots better with 30ft-lbs of recoil than they do with 3 ft-lbs of recoil.

Military snipers all over the world have transitioned to larger calibers - they shoot just fine.

You mean the military snipers that by and large have or are transitioning to 6.5 Creedmoor? Or are you talking about the military snipers that shoot 300’s and 338’s in 20-25lb braked or suppressed rifles? There are no military snipers shooting 30 cal mags in a 8lb or even 12lb rifle systems.

If you’re going to use an appeal to authority, at least make it relevant.

A half century of 1000 yard competitive shooters have used the 300 wm to set multiple records - they can shoot it just fine.

And yet now almost every 1,000 yar open competition is dominated by much smaller cartridges.

guys shoot big calibers quite well.

Sure. Same do. But they don’t shoot them as well as they shoot lessor recoiling identical setups.

 

[sndmn11]

Aren't 30 carbine, 30-30, .308 Winchester, 300 win mag all the same caliber?

All the talk of larger calibers being impossible to shoot well, just doesn’t jive with much of the real world.

Are these all interchangeable, more or less?

In those situations caliber and cartridge are more or less interchangeable.

 

[Rich M]

Appreciate the reply and suggestion but the rifle has been purchased.

We wanted something he can grow into and a person could argue he would never need anything else to take every critter in N America....that said, we also wanted a rifle that has a Remington footprint which will make any upgrade easier to accomplish, given the availability of parts. We also liked the lifetime warranty for the rifle and prefer glass that has it as well.

He is still within budget - might go over by 100 bucks with tax etc....but did very well. The rifle fits his body, his hands, and his eye. He is happy which is the biggest factor.

Glad you are happy with your purchase & decision. Many happy memories on their way!

 

[TaperPin]

So did it. It was an expensive, poor way to learn to shoot and kill then, and it’s even worse now.






Can you quote where someone- anyone- said larger calibers are impossible to shoot well?




It has nothing to do with “minding”. There is no human alive that shoots better with 30ft-lbs of recoil than they do with 3 ft-lbs of recoil.




You mean the military snipers that by and large have or are transitioning to 6.5 Creedmoor? Or are you talking about the military snipers that shoot 300’s and 338’s in 20-25lb braked or suppressed rifles? There are no military snipers shooting 30 cal mags in a 8lb or even 12lb rifle systems.

If you’re going to use an appeal to authority, at least make it relevant.






And yet now almost every 1,000 yar open competition is dominated by much smaller cartridges.




Sure. Same do. But they don’t shoot them as well as they shoot lessor recoiling identical setups.

You’ll be ok - nobody wants to take away your small guns.

We just don’t have the same view of the world. Nothing wrong with that.

Shooting prairie dogs is one of life’s simple pleasures - I think it’s great training. Small targets, wind, all the shooting positions, a lot more fun than making holes in paper. Shooting a big game rifle to MOD (minute of beady-eye dog) has always made hitting the broad side of a deer seem like an easier task. *chuckle*

 

[TaperPin]

Are these all interchangeable, more or less?

You’ll be ok. I’m just not the best person to explain it in more detail.

 

[Formidilosus]

You’ll be ok - nobody wants to take away your small guns.

We just don’t have the same view of the world. Nothing wrong with that.

I don’t suspect you have any idea what I shoot, or like. I’ve shot a few hundred magnum rounds in the last week or so, how many have you shot?

Stating physiological facts, isn’t an opinion.

 

[TaperPin]

I don’t suspect you have any idea what I shoot, or like. I’ve shot a few hundred magnum rounds in the last week or so, how many have you shot?

Stating physiological facts, isn’t an opinion.

You’ll be ok - not everyone has to agree with you.

 

[Castmaster]

My vote is a Tikka t3x Roughtech or Roughtech Superlite with UM rings and a Zeiss Conquest V4.

 

[Article 4]

So did it. It was an expensive, poor way to learn to shoot and kill then, and it’s even worse now.






Can you quote where someone- anyone- said larger calibers are impossible to shoot well?




It has nothing to do with “minding”. There is no human alive that shoots better with 30ft-lbs of recoil than they do with 3 ft-lbs of recoil.




You mean the military snipers that by and large have or are transitioning to 6.5 Creedmoor? Or are you talking about the military snipers that shoot 300’s and 338’s in 20-25lb braked or suppressed rifles? There are no military snipers shooting 30 cal mags in a 8lb or even 12lb rifle systems.

If you’re going to use an appeal to authority, at least make it relevant.






And yet now almost every 1,000 yar open competition is dominated by much smaller cartridges.




Sure. Same do. But they don’t shoot them as well as they shoot lessor recoiling identical setups.

Only one point to make here. There ARE Military snipers shooting 12lb rifles. In fact, many continue to use what they want to use, in deference to what the military contracts to build.

1. Mk12 Special Purpose Rifle (SPR)
> Action type: Semi-automatic
> Range: 700 meters
> Weight: 10 pounds (with optics and 30 round magazine)
> Length: 37.5 inches
> Chambered for: 5.56x45mm ammunition
Though withdrawn from service in 2017, the Mk12 was used throughout the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan by Navy SEALs, Army Rangers, Army Special Forces, and designated marksmen in the U.S. Marine Corps. The compact sniper rifle is based on the M16 platform and is highly customizable to suit varying mission demands. With a semi-automatic action and a 20-30 round box magazine, the Mk12 allows for rapid follow-up shots at ranges out to 700 meters.

2. M110A1 Compact Semi-Automatic Sniper System (CSASS)
> Action type: Semi-automatic
> Range: 800 meters
> Weight: 9.3 pounds
> Length: 42.7 inches
> Chambered for: 7.62x51mm

3. M39 Enhanced Marksman Rifle (EMR)
> Action type: Semi-automatic
> Range: 800 meters
> Weight: 16.5 pounds (with sight and bipod)
> Length: 44.2 inches
> Chambered for: 7.62x51mm

4. M24
> Action type: Bolt-action
> Range: 800 meters
> Weight: 15 pounds (loaded)
> Length: 43 inches
> Chambered for: 7.62x51mm ammunition


5. Mk20 Sniper Support Rifle (SSR)
> Action type: Semi-automatic
> Range: 910 meters
> Weight: 10.7 pounds
> Length: 42.5 inches (with suppressor)
> Chambered for: 7.62x51mm ammunition

6. Mk13 Mod7
> Action type: Bolt-action
> Range: 1,300 meters
> Weight: 9 pounds
> Length: 48.4 inches
> Chambered for: .300 Win Mag



These are just a few of many that are available anywhere from 9 - 17 lbs.

 

[ElPollo]

A half century of 1000 yard competitive shooters have used the 300 wm to set multiple records - they can shoot it just fine. Elr guys shoot big calibers quite well.

How much did those 1000-yard competition 300 win mags weigh? 30 pounds or more? I don’t think that’s an apples to apples comparison with hunting rifles.

 

[sndmn11]

 

[LCV]

These are just a few of many that are available anywhere from 9 - 17 lbs.

Only one of those has anything to do with what he said though…

 

[Formidilosus]

Only one point to make here. There ARE Military snipers shooting 12lb rifles. In fact, many continue to use what they want to use, in deference to what the military contracts to build.

I would stay with subjects you have personal, intimate, and current knowledge of instead of cutting and pasting things that are filled with inaccuracies.

1. Mk12 Special Purpose Rifle (SPR)
> Action type: Semi-automatic
> Range: 700 meters
> Weight: 10 pounds (with optics and 30 round magazine)

The Mark 12 hasn’t been a program of record for more than a decade. The weight above is wildly incorrect. The Mark 12 beside me weighs 13.8lbs empty.
But, how does a 223 nearly 14lb rifle have anything to do with sub 12lb 30 cal mag rifle system?

2. M110A1 Compact Semi-Automatic Sniper System (CSASS)
> Action type: Semi-automatic
> Range: 800 meters
> Weight: 9.3 pounds
> Length: 42.7 inches
> Chambered for: 7.62x51mm

The average CSASS weighs between 14-15 lbs without thermal. Again how does a 14lb 308win have anything to do with a 12lb 30cal
Mag rifle system?

3. M39 Enhanced Marksman Rifle (EMR)

> Action type: Semi-automatic
> Range: 800 meters
> Weight: 16.5 pounds (with sight and bipod)
> Length: 44.2 inches
> Chambered for: 7.62x51mm

So a 17lb 308win rifle system, has what to do with a 12lb 30cal Mag rifle system?

4. M24
> Action type: Bolt-action
> Range: 800 meters
> Weight: 15 pounds (loaded)
> Length: 43 inches
> Chambered for: 7.62x51mm ammunition

Again, a 15lb 308win has what to do with a 12lb 30cal mag rifle system?

5. Mk20 Sniper Support Rifle (SSR)
> Action type: Semi-automatic
> Range: 910 meters
> Weight: 10.7 pounds
> Length: 42.5 inches (with suppressor)
> Chambered for: 7.62x51mm ammunition

Like all the above, the MK20 averages around 15lbs without clip on NV thermal. And once more, how does a 15-16lb 308win have anything to do with a 12lb 30cal
Mag rifle system?

6. Mk13 Mod7
> Action type: Bolt-action
> Range: 1,300 meters
> Weight: 9 pounds
> Length: 48.4 inches
> Chambered for: .300 Win Mag

No. Any one that has even picked up a MK13 Mod 7 would know the weight is nearly double that- the chassis alone is a large portion of 9lbs. As carried MK13 Mod 7’s are generally between 18-21lbs.

These are just a few of many that are available anywhere from 9 - 17 lbs.

In fairytale land maybe.

 

[Jake Larsen]

I would stay with subjects you have personal, intimate, and current knowledge of instead of cutting and pasting things that are filled with inaccuracies.




The Mark 12 hasn’t been a program of record for more than a decade. The weight above is wildly incorrect. The Mark 12 beside me weighs 13.8lbs empty.
But, how does a 223 nearly 14lb rifle have anything to do with sub 12lb 30 cal mag rifle system?





The average CSASS weighs between 14-15 lbs without thermal. Again how does a 14lb 308win have anything to do with a 12lb 30cal
Mag rifle system?






So a 17lb 308win rifle system, has what to do with a 12lb 30cal Mag rifle system?







Again, a 15lb 308win has what to do with a 12lb 30cal mag rifle system?






Like all the above, the MK20 averages around 15lbs without clip on NV thermal. And once more, how does a 15-16lb 308win have anything to do with a 12lb 30cal
Mag rifle system?





No. Any one that has even picked up a MK13 Mod 7 would know the weight is nearly double that- the chassis alone is a large portion of 9lbs. As carried MK13 Mod 7’s are generally between 18-21lbs.






In fairytale land maybe.

Ouch. Haha, the point Form is making is obvious, even without intimate knowledge of these systems.

In moderate to lightweight (hunting weight) platforms, lower recoiling cartridges are easier to shoot well, especially over time. Platform/cartridge combos that knock your teeth out will cause even great shooters to develop bad habits.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Article 4]

I would stay with subjects you have personal, intimate, and current knowledge of instead of cutting and pasting things that are filled with inaccuracies.




The Mark 12 hasn’t been a program of record for more than a decade. The weight above is wildly incorrect. The Mark 12 beside me weighs 13.8lbs empty.
But, how does a 223 nearly 14lb rifle have anything to do with sub 12lb 30 cal mag rifle system?





The average CSASS weighs between 14-15 lbs without thermal. Again how does a 14lb 308win have anything to do with a 12lb 30cal
Mag rifle system?






So a 17lb 308win rifle system, has what to do with a 12lb 30cal Mag rifle system?







Again, a 15lb 308win has what to do with a 12lb 30cal mag rifle system?






Like all the above, the MK20 averages around 15lbs without clip on NV thermal. And once more, how does a 15-16lb 308win have anything to do with a 12lb 30cal
Mag rifle system?





No. Any one that has even picked up a MK13 Mod 7 would know the weight is nearly double that- the chassis alone is a large portion of 9lbs. As carried MK13 Mod 7’s are generally between 18-21lbs.






In fairytale land maybe.

I do have intimate knowledge having served in multiple capacities within Socom. I am a decorated combat veteran with citations from the United Stated and other countries.

Anything else?