IDFG "sharp shooters" kill 200 elk

[sasquatch]

Same problem here in Michigan,dairy farmers whine about loosing a few bushel of corn or couple bails of alfalfa hay so they get what is referred to as block permits to shoot any and all deer starting in mid summer then the wastefull dinks shove them in a hole an burry them, my theory is that if they aren't going to allow anyone to hunt their massive property to lower the deer numbers than they shouldn't be issued the permits.

EXACTLY, take the public’s money offer the public something in return on their investment.

It’s even worse when the same farmers SELL hunts. They double dip


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[cuerro viejo]

Farmers are taking our tax dollars. They should give us something for it. No money until after they ask neighbors for help removing the animals.

farmers take your tax money and in return you have some of the cheapest and most readily available food of any nation in the world. Our grain prices don’t follow inflation. Second you really want to hunt elk in July, at night, in the middle of a field?

 

[cuerro viejo]

EXACTLY, take the public’s money offer the public something in return on their investment.

It’s even worse when the same farmers SELL hunts. They double dip


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corn per bushel was 1.09 average in 1960. Adjust that for inflation and it’s buying power via today’s dollar was 9.54. Today corn is $3.80 a bushel

Your food cost almost 60% less then it did n 1960...... might want to rethink your projection

 

[sasquatch]

Food is cheap because it’s subsidized

If it was priced by supply and demand the world would be a lot thinner

It’s just like flood insurance along the coast. You can only afford it because it’s subsidized. Remove that and ppl can’t live there. Then we lose land mass and “room” to spread out. Then the high ground would look like ants with ppl


So you right. I understand it. I never implied or meant to imply I don’t. However they get subsidized and then claim for extra money from depredation issues while being strongly against letting people hunt!

If they took the subsidies away I wouldn’t cry because I also don’t believe in continuing to kick the can down the road forever until inevitable collapse that future generations to solve or fight

 

[sasquatch]

Food is cheap because it’s subsidized

If it was priced by supply and demand the world would be a lot thinner

It’s just like flood insurance along the coast. You can only afford it because it’s subsidized. Remove that and ppl can’t live there. Then we lose land mass and “room” to spread out. Then the high ground would look like ants with ppl.

So you right. I understand it. I never implied or meant to imply I don’t. However they get subsidized and then claim for extra money from depredation issues while being strongly against letting people hunt!

If they took the subsidies away I wouldn’t cry because I also don’t believe in continuing to kick the can down the road forever until inevitable collapse that future generations to solve or fight

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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[sasquatch]

farmers take your tax money and in return you have some of the cheapest and most readily available food of any nation in the world. Our grain prices don’t follow inflation. Second you really want to hunt elk in July, at night, in the middle of a field?

No I don’t. But maybe some would.

My issue is we pay for snipers to shoot them, while paying farmers to subsidize our food, while steadily loosing habitat for the wildlife, which is just one big compounding problem!

I understand why food is cheap. However I bet most here such as me are republican, conservative, and against socialism. Yet, we socialize the food and we ok with that.


Instead of SPENDING money we could maybe take IN money that could go towards habitat improvements which would make such animals LESS reliant on farm lands.

Some of this happens in areas where tags are few and far in-between. There’s got to be a better way to provide recreation which we all hope to never lose while simultaneously steadily losing it. We losing public land, have decreasing herds, increasing pressure, encroaching onto valuable winter grounds, etc etc. Yet it’s like nobody sees the big picture that most of it is steaming from OUR increase in population when it boils down to it but we can’t talk about that issue, that’s political suicide

I’d like to ensure that the outdoors we all love will be there or expand further for generations to come. Because once it’s gone it’s gone

 

[Wmmichael20]

Thing is majority of grain grown in the u.s. doesn't go to the grocery store it goes into cattle feed,and then alot of that in turn gets sold and shipped over seas...China is one of our biggest buyers of our agricultural products. So yeah our tax dollars go to subsidize their loss and then they ship the majority out of the country. So yep I'll get right on feeling bad for them so that they can go buy more half million dollar pieces of equipment so they don't have to pay income tax. I used to work for a j.d. dealer and was told there's two lies a farmer will tell you ...1. I'm broke ...as the drive in their new 70,000 dollar powerstroke f350 , and #2 is I was just helping that sheep over the fence!

 

[cuerro viejo]

No I don’t. But maybe some would.

My issue is we pay for snipers to shoot them, while paying farmers to subsidize our food, while steadily loosing habitat for the wildlife, which is just one big compounding problem!

I understand why food is cheap. However I bet most here such as me are republican, conservative, and against socialism. Yet, we socialize the food and we ok with that.


Instead of SPENDING money we could maybe take IN money that could go towards habitat improvements which would make such animals LESS reliant on farm lands.

Some of this happens in areas where tags are few and far in-between. There’s got to be a better way to provide recreation which we all hope to never lose while simultaneously steadily losing it. We losing public land, have decreasing herds, increasing pressure, encroaching onto valuable winter grounds, etc etc. Yet it’s like nobody sees the big picture that most of it is steaming from OUR increase in population when it boils down to it but we can’t talk about that issue, that’s political suicide

I’d like to ensure that the outdoors we all love will be there or expand further for generations to come. Because once it’s gone it’s gone

I get you issue, you can’t be mad at a farmer for what is happening on his farm in July!!! That’s ridiculous.

your agruement has zero todo with the farming and everything thing to do with the state of Idaho for not issuing more tags durning season, but then again it’s a migratory herd, just because the bulk of those elk are in those fields in July doesn’t mean they are still there after harvest which starts in Aug, assuming he had anything left.

Habitat improvements, as in increasing carrying capacity are minimally effective if there is a more efficient and safer food supply in another area.

personally if I was that farmer I’d HF and then it would concentrate those elk to another farm so they would have to HF and then every farmer in that valley would eventually be HF’d essentially eliminating any winter range... thus dropping the Elk population to what public range can support, there for there isn’t a state trust projection going forward.

HF or payment equals an end result that is still less elk, one just causes a larger quicker long term issue, pick your poison. Personally the culling option is the least invasive to the long term population

 

[cuerro viejo]

Thing is majority of grain grown in the u.s. doesn't go to the grocery store it goes into cattle feed,and then alot of that in turn gets sold and shipped over seas...China is one of our biggest buyers of our agricultural products. So yeah our tax dollars go to subsidize their loss and then they ship the majority out of the country. So yep I'll get right on feeling bad for them so that they can go buy more half million dollar pieces of equipment so they don't have to pay income tax. I used to work for a j.d. dealer and was told there's two lies a farmer will tell you ...1. I'm broke ...as the drive in their new 70,000 dollar powerstroke f350 , and #2 is I was just helping that sheep over the fence!

Again another projection, that surplus is what insurers safer and cheaper food. If you want less farmers resulting in a higher priced and less stable food production thus causing importation from third world countries, cool. Not me

 

[Wmmichael20]

Projection? I've lived and worked with farmers and in farm communities my entire life and I've seen it with my own two eyes.....facts are facts .... I've literally watched them come in and buy new equipment year after year with the excuse that if they didn't spend their profit then they would have to pay taxes on it..... Not that their equipment was constantly breaking down or is worn out...just that they didn't want to pay income tax. If there were still tons of small family farms it would be so much different,they wouldn't be doing this and bragging about it, but now in the time of farming thousands opon thousands of acres by relatively few farms it's now big business and not what it used to be and all they care about is the bottom dollar anymore.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Projection? I've lived and worked with farmers and in farm communities my entire life and I've seen it with my own two eyes.....facts are facts .... I've literally watched them come in and buy new equipment year after year with the excuse that if they didn't spend their profit then they would have to pay taxes on it..... Not that their equipment was constantly breaking down or is worn out...just that they didn't want to pay income tax. If there were still tons of small family farms it would be so much different,they wouldn't be doing this and bragging about it, but now in the time of farming thousands opon thousands of acres by relatively few farms it's now big business and not what it used to be and all they care about is the bottom dollar anymore.

You can’t spend money to save the same amount of money . It’s a False thought process. you can reinvest in new equipment ownership but the reinvested tax % saving doesn't out run true costs and depreciation, you are still paying out money.

Again it’s a projection of what your perception is.

Most are leasing actually, which every business has same lease ability. In fact every business has an asset depreciation schedule also.

I farm and profit is not guaranteed,

 

[Wmmichael20]

Call it reinvestment all you want ...it's the same thing...spend so they don't show a profit at year's end ....not that other business don't do the same thing....I've heard it all over the last 35 plus years that I can remember and frankly tired of the whining. Wildlife eating crops is part of the job .always has been always will be, and if they want the numbers of animals lowered on their property then they should have to let a number of hunters onto their property during season to do so instead of blasting nursing does,and button bucks with spots still on them in July and bull dozing them into a big hole like the ones around our area have been caught doing multiple times. It's just plain wastefull and gives all hunters/sportsmen a bad name. There's gotta be a better way to lessen crop damage than the current way they go about it.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Call it reinvestment all you want ...it's the same thing...spend so they don't show a profit at year's end ....not that other business don't do the same thing....I've heard it all over the last 35 plus years that I can remember and frankly tired of the whining. Wildlife eating crops is part of the job .always has been always will be, and if they want the numbers of animals lowered on their property then they should have to let a number of hunters onto their property during season to do so instead of blasting nursing does,and button bucks with spots still on them in July and bull dozing them into a big hole like the ones around our area have been caught doing multiple times. It's just plain wastefull and gives all hunters/sportsmen a bad name. There's gotta be a better way to lessen crop damage than the current way they go about it.

Wait you worked a JD dealership and you are mad about farmers reinvesting money into the local community, thus giving you a job, instead of just putting it into the bank to earn interest. Those farmers are pure evil I tell you.

 

[sasquatch]

In most business they’d spend part of the profits on stoping what’s hurting the business, is this case loss of grain production

In this case depredation. Maybe a fence, maybe some alarm system, maybe hire some kid to run the animals off. Whatever it may be to help

Yet, when it comes to farms they’d rather not and just get tax incentives or have all the animals shot and left

I don’t despise farmers at all, but I don’t like idea of not letting ppl hunt, yet hate the animals eating the crops, while getting tax deductions for that and also may be charging high prices to hunt. There’s just GOT to be a better way.

Just think of one example, geese come in and tear up a crop, so rightfully so they get a tax break, then a hunter knocks on the door and ask if he can hunt the geese, yet he gets told no unless he wants to pay. See the irony?

 

[Wmmichael20]

Yup worked...as in past tense, just because you worked in a particular field at one time or another doesnt mean you had to like it or agree with how things were done its just a job after all.

 

[Jimss]

Here's a couple links to the successful elk management program we've had here in Colorado. Public hunters were used to thin and scatter a booming elk population that was causing expensive crop damage and threatening the integrity of a biologically diverse property.

Ron Stewart Preserve at Rabbit Mountain Elk & Vegetation Management Plan

www.bouldercounty.org

https://assets.bouldercounty.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/staff-memo-elk-plan.pdf

Boulder County’s Rabbit Mountain elk management seen as success at two-year mark

Two years of limited hunting on county open space at Ron Stewart Preserve at Rabbit Mountain in Boulder County have significantly reduced the elk population there, and commissioners on Tuesday will…

www.dailycamera.com

This success story could be used as an example for use in other areas with similar concerns.

 

[cuerro viejo]

In most business they’d spend part of the profits on stoping what’s hurting the business, is this case loss of grain production

In this case depredation. Maybe a fence, maybe some alarm system, maybe hire some kid to run the animals off. Whatever it may be to help

Yet, when it comes to farms they’d rather not and just get tax incentives or have all the animals shot and left

I don’t despise farmers at all, but I don’t like idea of not letting ppl hunt, yet hate the animals eating the crops, while getting tax deductions for that and also may be charging high prices to hunt. There’s just GOT to be a better way.

Just think of one example, geese come in and tear up a crop, so rightfully so they get a tax break, then a hunter knocks on the door and ask if he can hunt the geese, yet he gets told no unless he wants to pay. See the irony?

Article I read he did allow guys to hunt in oct

But that’s my point. I could let everyone on Rok slide hunt my farm. During sept season I might have 10 pronghorns at anyone time, right now In Jan I have well over 100 plus on my winter wheat and barely. Toss in the fact there is only 40 sept tags in entire unit anyway (w/100% success also) so even if I let every tag holder hunt my place I’d still be stuck with 100 plus on my winter wheat. Actually more probably because they wouldn’t all tag out.


Same thing for this farmer, Just because they are in there in great numbers in July doesn’t mean they are there after harvest which corresponds to an actual season.

 

[87TT]

Say they did let hunters in at what ever time of the year. When the numbers drop again for what ever the reason, The farmers who let hunters in would still get blamed.. The DFG should do what they think is right for the resource.

 

[howl]

farmers take your tax money and in return you have some of the cheapest and most readily available food of any nation in the world. Our grain prices don’t follow inflation. Second you really want to hunt elk in July, at night, in the middle of a field?

It's not cheap if I have to pay tax for several levels of subsidy and then pay what the market will bear. Do you really think you're not paying for what it costs plus a cut for all the middlemen? Sell that nonsense somewhere else.

 

[cuerro viejo]

It's not cheap if I have to pay tax for several levels of subsidy and then pay what the market will bear. Do you really think you're not paying for what it costs plus a cut for all the middlemen? Sell that nonsense somewhere else.

Lol, pretty easy to break down the cost per person in the us. It’s minimal compared to the cost savings, but ok.