I can't help but agree with you. Even though it was before I had a chance to take advantage of it, I know what use to come out of the country east of you. It has never even reached being a shadow of what it once was in the late 80's and early 90's. With wolves what they are now I don't see a way for it to even "kind of" recover without it going to a draw.
Sounds like your already seeing what I'm saying, Idaho isn't worth it for deer unless you've got a draw tag.
There's some important numbers being left out like herd numbers, number of hunters, acres of suitable habitat, success rates, number of days hunted, and predator number. Maybe coincidence, maybe not, but one can't help but notice those numbers kind of correlate with how the economy was doing at the time. Maybe it does recover to OTC levels, maybe things get left as a draw to have it be a quality hunt, maybe it gets turned into a limited quota. One thing that is for certain is that there's far more obstacles in the way of the mule deer population rebounding now than there was during the "glory years".
My observations are admittedly somewhat skewed from what most non-resident hunters see. I've been floating around the edges of outfitter camps a in Idaho a decent chunk of my in a unit that's OTC for archery and rifle deer. What I see on a regular basis is guys coming from out of state paying big money for a drop camp or guided elk hunt and buying a deer tag as an after thought. I've not seen one of those tags go on a buck I'd consider worth paying out of state prices for. You'd be surprised how many forked horns, 3 x 3's and small 4 x 4's make their way back east of the Mississippi. I can't blame Idaho residents for shooting meat bucks, if I was an Idaho resident I'd do the same thing on OTC tags. My reasoning for the thought of upping the prices for non-residents isn't about us all paying for more for the resource. It's just that I feel if there's going to be steps taken to limit pressure on the resource that it should first land on the back of non-residents before residents are effected.Leo,
Thanks for this latest response. I should not have stated that "we were paying enough". It sounds like we ALL need to be paying MORE!!! As far as being offended, I apologize up front, but, I get testy when I see a general statement that puts all the blame and burden on NR hunters when no credence is given to the fact that Resident experiences would be much different (maybe worse) if NR hunters did not participate. I believe many western residents tend to overestimate the NR hunter impact to game management and Resident experiences. Along the same line, Residents tend to underestimate the benefit that NR hunters provide to the resource, state game agencies and local economies through their purchases while Residents are the primary beneficiary of NR inclusion. State agencies are generally run on shoe string budgets and if there were no NR license/tag sales, the residents would bear that cost or suffer the consequences of inadequacy. Also, most NR hunters are not fools and are not looking for a dink or younger buck and WILL refrain from their purchases if opportunity does not exist. They are some that will shoot just ANY buck for the experience and that annoys me too but, alas.... this has been a struggle with tolerance for the ages.
With that, You are absolutely right on your cost/benefit assumption. I don't put in for ID anymore for this very reason. My father and I hunted the Salmon-Lemhi-Challis area exclusively in the late 70's through the early 90's (on years we drew tags) with as much success as defeat. We were hunting DIY with Resident friends for older age class deer and they were not plentiful but, you could find a few good ones (180+) if you worked hard. I went back in 2004 (I think) and the opportunity just wasn't the same or even close. Whitetails were abundant in traditional Mule deer haunts and ranchettes and other housing developments speckled what was once great deer habitat. As a result, access was MUCH more limited to some of the spots we liked to hunt! I quit applying and moved on which proves your point.
Through the years, I wish I had a dollar for every Idaho resident that stated they had killed or were looking for a meat buck. We didn't come to Idaho for a "meat" buck but, I saw a many a dead one at the hand of residents. This has changed some, for the better, with the higher cost of second tags but, is still prevalent according to my to my past hunting partners in Idaho. What i should have said is that it very easy to hit the easy button by placing all blame and/or burden on NR hunters when residents have the propensity to affect populations and pressure as much as anybody.
Maybe the answer, as some have said, is to eliminate OTC tags in favor of a draw for tags to limit pressure and enhance hunter experience and ultimately improving the resource but, going up on the NR tags alone will provide insignificant results--we expect to pay more and will pay more for a good experience!
My point is a little tolerance goes a long way and promotes all of us working together to benefit the whole! I hope Idaho gets this worked out! I would love to bring my son to relive the experiences I shared there with my father.
Respectfully,
100
PS: Yo momma's so dumb she stared at a glass of orange juice for 12 hours because it said concentrate!!
Not really. MT has used that formula for years, and guys still keep paying the price. Their NR tags are double what ID charges, with less trophy quality.
Actually, Utah NR elk tags are cheaper than Idaho, unless you draw an LE tag. Hunting license is cheaper as well. Antler point restrictions don't work, been documented in several states and studies, and was already discussed above in the thread. NR tags are capped, residents aren't. It isn't the NR hunters that are killing all the deer, most NR have zero clue when they hit the ground for the hunt. A few get lucky, but the majority get taken to school.
Robby I think it would be better to adjust unit overcrowding in places that have become super inundated not lower tags or even get rid of the second tag just spread the hunters out a little. I think Idaho should also open a few more otc late season bow hunts or a couple trad bow hunts. They cater to riflw draws and opportunity way to much in my opinion.
