Idaho proposed special season open sight centerfire

[WRO]

Again, very very few guys will have the skills and equipment to do it. I’m sure your circle will get it figured out as well as many of our circles will figure something out. We have to realize that for a lot of us, hunting isn’t a hobby, but our lifestyle. The general hunting public (vast majority of tag buyers), are going to draw an open sight tag, run to the hardware store and buy a gun with open sights and go out on their hunt. Most guys won’t be able to see stuff very far out.

Really? How many guys were legitimately deadly past 200 yards 15 years ago vs now? 3-500 yards used to be the thing of lore in the boomer crowd, now its pretty standard. People will catch up. When I started bow hunting, 40 yards was a long shot, now 60+ is. If there's a market, there will be adoption and marketing.

 

[WRO]

What technology should be banned?

If you ban rangefinders, things will change significantly.

 

[WRO]

I want address this part- that is incorrect. When people feel there is scarcity- whether time, location, or opportunity; they consistently seek it out to a much greater extent than when they feel there is abundance. This is observed in almost every aspect of human lives. Shorter seasons- results in more animals being killed per hunter, not less.
I have lived and hunted all over the country- several times in places where season went from 1-2 weeks long and where you had to draw for tags, to months long and for tags were OTC and nearly unlimited. Opening day went from a war zone at daylight with 80-100 shots being heard, to 3 total in the span of two seasons. Nothing else changed- just the idea that hunters didn’t have to shoot the first deer they saw because they had 2 plus months with a rifle to do so. And then because people have lives and truly aren’t that serious, most hunters went from hunting hard for that week or two, to going out opening day, then only once or twice the season, and hitting the end of season killing way less deer than they historically had- or without killing a deer at all.

100% agreed, I'm much more likely to kill on a 5 day season then a 2 month season statistically.

 

[Wprinkle]

What technology should be banned?

If you do one you kinda have to do em all.. and there is probably no way to inforce it but mapping Apps is what Id ban first but you would have to include rangefinders. I don't have a number but some states ban electronics in scopes.. I'm good with that too. Mapping Apps not just for hunters but hikers as well is the single most influential tech that has disrupted wildlife migration and total numbers. Now you have hunters that can go places they didn't even know existed, with pinpoint accuracy, they go places they wouldn't have because they can now find their way back to camp in the dark. You have every hippie in America out hiking with their dog (handkerchief around the neck required) stomping through calving grounds and pushing animals. There is no more pockets or holes for animals to escape too now.

 

[nevadabugle]

Instead of bitching and moaning on an internet forum maybe you guys should show up and provide public comment if/when this comes up in Commission....

Don't care what side of the issue your opinion is on, do this!! All of you!!

 

[Flyjunky]

If you ban rangefinders, things will change significantly.

Why not binoculars, spotting scopes, mapping software, etc, etc?

If we’re trying to make hunting hard again, to save the deer and create more opportunity, then let’s stop screwing around.

Most all tech gives the hunter an advantage, ban it all. Once again, if this is truly about saving deer and creating opportunity. Just think how much more opportunity there will be.

 

[Wprinkle]

I want address this part- that is incorrect. When people feel there is scarcity- whether time, location, or opportunity; they consistently seek it out to a much greater extent than when they feel there is abundance. This is observed in almost every aspect of human lives. Shorter seasons- results in more animals being killed per hunter, not less.
I have lived and hunted all over the country- several times in places where season went from 1-2 weeks long and where you had to draw for tags, to months long and for tags were OTC and nearly unlimited. Opening day went from a war zone at daylight with 80-100 shots being heard, to 3 total in the span of two seasons. Nothing else changed- just the idea that hunters didn’t have to shoot the first deer they saw because they had 2 plus months with a rifle to do so. And then because people have lives and truly aren’t that serious, most hunters went from hunting hard for that week or two, to going out opening day, then only once or twice the season, and hitting the end of season killing way less deer than they historically had- or without killing a deer at all.

This ties in to your post in the next post…




You, your 12yo, and your 75yo dad can use iron sights of some sort- if you can’t, then you don’t have the eyesight to safely target discriminate at all, and cannot responsibly and safely hunt.

I have never thought about it before but this is so true... In the south where seasons are 1-2 months long it plays out exactly like that. As a result we see better choices of deer management being made, guys pass deer so they can "come back next weekend" and holistically hunting is being transformed to the experience and community and not just killing. Guys that buy a weekend hunt WILL kill something, but guys that lease for the season don't always.

 

[Formidilosus]

Those are some crazy numbers.

It also reminds me of some stuff I've been thinking about a lot the last couple of years. Pretty sure there's also something else going on with success rates, beyond just weapon tech. I think guys are just becoming better hunters, on average. At least with Western big game. It might sound crazy at first, when thinking about Grandpa going out every year, always getting a buck, etc, but think about how serious you and your circles are, compared to how past generations prepped pre-season. Normal back then for most guys was like getting ready for a long camping trip, with maybe an overnight pre-season scouting run somewhere.

Nobody was going out multiple times, totalling a couple of weeks, to scout. And that's pretty common now.

With tags getting harder to land, and many years apart in most places out here, I think a lot of guys are taking their hunt a lot more seriously than we would have 40 years ago. Guys are researching how-to a lot harder, they're scouting a lot more pre-season, and they've got access to vast catalogues of world-class buck hunters hunters they can watch or listen to on youtube, podcasts, etc, by the tens of hours each, who would have been a once-in-a-lifetime conversation to stumble into back in the 1980s. I'd argue that on average, each guy going out into the field per tag is probably more serious, with more info between his ears, than was the case even 20 years ago.

I think this is also why guys are putting a lot more into their gear - they spend 3-5 years waiting for the next tag, and put money into guns, optics, camo, SxS's, that they just probably wouldn't if they were getting drawn every year. But with opportunity becoming more rare, they want to make the absolute most, and best, of the hunt.

I don't see that as much with Blacktail or Whitetail guys. Might be wrong, admittedly. But I just don't perceive that level of obsessive preparation, gear hoarding, and bonkers exploits into the middle of nowhere backcountry on a BOAL pursuit.

From your own arguments hear-

Limit season/duration (opportunity)= people being more serious. That’s fact.

Focus on “trophy”= more hunters being very serious about it. That is a fact.

Less total animals= people looking for any advantage they can get. That is a fact.

Have heightened technology available= people turn to technology and to gain an advantage and increaee success.

Limit season/duration and opportunity= people being more concerned and fixated on gear and technology. That is a fact.

Artificial drive to promote/pump up western hunting via common social media platform= more people that take it serious, AND a brand new artificial population to backfill lost hunters every year. That is a fact.


Now the real kicker…

Because of reduced opportunity and the artificial “drive” to promote western hunting as cool, the love of technology in humans, and the drive for technology to increase success or make it easier, and companies marketing to sell product, and social media (mostly YouTube and instagram) driving the desire or “need” to share or gain followers for individuals= all of that combines to drive people to look at areas and species they never would otherwise, buy gear they never would otherwise, research like they never would otherwise, scout like never would otherwise, and hunt like they never would otherwise.


Interestingly, take away technology and much the artificial “market” around all of this goes away. The conversation is t about whitetails that live anywhere and everywhere- it’s specifically about mule deer. Mule deer are dumb. Well, let’s say “out of time evolutionarily”. They are not the same skittishness as WT’s and they do not rebound like WT’s. The pressure has to give- and I’m not saying that technology is the greatest driver behind numbers- there are several things that need to be done. However, it does play a very large part of what we can control. And that is with all weapons- archery, muzzle loaders, and modern rifles.

 

[WRO]

Why not binoculars, spotting scopes, mapping software, etc, etc?

If we’re trying to make hunting hard again, to save the deer and create more opportunity, then let’s stop screwing around.

Most all tech gives the hunter an advantage, ban it all. Once again, if this is truly about saving deer and creating opportunity. Just think how much more opportunity there will be.

Most people can’t judge range well enough to be deadly at distance. Shit most can’t tell the difference between 40-60 yards


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Sully_44]

All these restrictions are just hunters trying to put up hurdles and barriers to entry to other hunters.

Wouldn’t restricting optics make your weapon cheaper? Wouldn’t that make it an easier barrier of entry?

 

[Formidilosus]

whataboutism is a terrible disease.

A simple red dot gives them no advantage other than it’s a sight system that may give a guy a few more years of opportunity.

That’s an advantage. Red dots (annd 1x scopes) are a massive advantage at any vision ability.

(Until vortex designs a red dot with an exposed elevation turret)

There are multiple already in the market, and more coming. The one above is an absolute monster at 500 yards.

I thought we were doing this to increase opportunity? No? Opportunity for me but not for thee?

No. It’s reducing success. Either through drastically cutting available tags, or through reducing the amount animals per capita that can be killed.

 

[Formidilosus]

If you ban rangefinders, things will change significantly.

100%. Electronic rangefinder’s have been the greatest increase in success with “gear” in our lifetimes. OnX, etc, have been the greatest increase in animal opportunities probably ever.

 

[wind gypsy]

Nope not that episode.

lol sorry you can’t shoot irons. Sucks to suck now go sit down old man. Spend the last 10 years you can hunt applying for a limited scope rifle hunt you will never draw.
What a joke, open up exemptions, make it possible for these guys to shoot a red dots or some other non magnified optic that can keep them going.

I'm generally in favor of limiting technology in locations where game is particularly vulnerable to hunter success and I do like non-magnified centerfires as an option. I'm with you on allowing red-dots or non-magnified scopes for the eyesight impaired to not screw over a specific subset of existing hunters.

 

[Flyjunky]

I want address this part- that is incorrect. When people feel there is scarcity- whether time, location, or opportunity; they consistently seek it out to a much greater extent than when they feel there is abundance. This is observed in almost every aspect of human lives. Shorter seasons- results in more animals being killed per hunter, not less.
I have lived and hunted all over the country- several times in places where season went from 1-2 weeks long and where you had to draw for tags, to months long and for tags were OTC and nearly unlimited. Opening day went from a war zone at daylight with 80-100 shots being heard, to 3 total in the span of two seasons. Nothing else changed- just the idea that hunters didn’t have to shoot the first deer they saw because they had 2 plus months with a rifle to do so. And then because people have lives and truly aren’t that serious, most hunters went from hunting hard for that week or two, to going out opening day, then only once or twice the season, and hitting the end of season killing way less deer than they historically had- or without killing a deer at all.

I get what you’re saying but I’d pushback a little bit.

During our elk hunt this year we had 2/7 days that weren’t completely fogged in. The elk were there, we literally couldn’t see them. Give me another week and we would have filled all our tags.

How many people hunting new units or states would be able to get on animals over a month long season vs 5-7 days?

I get the scarcity thing but long seasons can have negative consequences as well, especially as those seasons get later in the year.

 

[benconfused]

That’s an advantage. Red dots (annd 1x scopes) are a massive advantage at any vision ability.






View attachment 976823


There are multiple already in the market, and more coming. The one above is an absolute monster at 500 yards.




No. It’s reducing success. Either through drastically cutting available tags, or through reducing the amount animals per capita that can be killed.

What red dot is that?

 

[Flyjunky]

Most people can’t judge range well enough to be deadly at distance. Shit most can’t tell the difference between 40-60 yards


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I get that and agree, but if we truly want to get more opportunity, making hunting harder, keep more animals on their feet, etc…why stop at rangefinders?

Do binocs and spotters not provide a technological advantage?

 

[WeiserBucks]

Do binocs and spotters not provide an advantage?

I'd present a weak argument that binos contribute to safety, hopefully keeping people from shooting at movement and helping identify the potential target. I'm tired of having guns pointed at me in some of the more popular units.

 

[wind gypsy]

I get what you’re saying but I’d pushback a little bit.

During our elk hunt this year we had 2/7 days that weren’t completely fogged in. The elk were there, we literally couldn’t see them. Give me another week and we would have filled all our tags.

How many people hunting new units or states would be able to get on animals over a month long season vs 5-7 days?

I get the scarcity thing but long seasons can have negative consequences as well, especially as those seasons get later in the year.

Agree. When i had the time to do it I hunted as a NR in MT general season hard as I could, 2-3 trips or weeks a year. If they limited me to 1 week, it would have significantly limited odds of success. For most NRs it doesnt matter but it absolutely does for lots of residents and a smaller subset of NRs.

 

[Formidilosus]

I get what you’re saying but I’d pushback a little bit.

During our elk hunt this year we had 2/7 days that weren’t completely fogged in. The elk were there, we literally couldn’t see them. Give me another week and we would have filled all our tags.

How many people hunting new units or states would be able to get on animals over a month long season vs 5-7 days?

I get the scarcity thing but long seasons can have negative consequences as well, especially as those seasons get later in the year.

That is true, but it’s the exceptions- I am one of them as well.

 

[HunterGatherer]

I don’t think RF use is the problem. I would argue that RFs potentially cause less wounding than people shooting at guesstimated ranges