Idaho proposed special season open sight centerfire

[nm.otter]

Missed this thread earlier, just finished reading. NMDGF is reworking its big game rules this year and I signed up for public comment at tonight's meeting.

As has been said before, muzzy's with dialable scopes are basically single shot rifles. My first year hunting with a muzzy I killed a buck at 260 yards without issue. I shot my muzzleloader less than 20 times total that year.

NM moved to iron sights on muzzies a few years ago after the take rates got within 2-3% of those for
ALW (rifle) hunts.

Are we going to restrict iron sight weapons to single shot or lever action only?

This is another question I have. How much of the success (or lack thereof) on various weapons can be attributed to the time required for a follow-up shot?

getting rid of rangefinders would have the most impact overall.

IMO nearly impossible to enforce. We're already short on game wardens here.

 

[ctafoya]

The way people are hunting these days with long range stuff I see a lot of wounded animals not being recovered when they give a try going old school.

 

[IDVortex]

The way people are hunting these days with long range stuff I see a lot of wounded animals not being recovered when they give a try going old school.

Id love to see studies of animals wounded from long range hunters vs the good ole' boy with his 30-06 that he shot a box of ammo through right before season to 'sight it in'.

 

[ctafoya]

Id love to see studies of animals wounded from long range hunters vs the good ole' boy with his 30-06 that he shot a box of ammo through right before season to 'sight it in'.

I'm sure the numbers are staggering. Point I was trying to make is that everyone is so dependent on optics, rangefinders, and ballistic calculators that a lot of people wouldn't know what to do.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

It’s important to give the animals a chance [to run off and die slow deaths so the coyotes and buzzards can eat them].

I am mostly joking, but I do think that limiting hunters to technology that is only good out to 150 yards makes it harder for most hunters to be killers. But my experience has been that this doesn’t really affect the kinds of hunters who are successful year after year.

Nor does it stop the sort of “hunter” who is lobbing shots well outside his “known effective range.” I have a neighbor who asked me to “keep an eye out for a big ole buck I might have wounded.” He said he shot at it running at “about 300 yards.”

And anecdotally, I have seen and heard of a lot more animals wounded and not recovered by inexpert close-range weapons (archery and muzzleloader) than by centerfire rifles. It’s a lot easier to be lethal at any range with a good centerfire rifle.

 

[nm.otter]

anecdotally, I have seen and heard of a lot more animals wounded and not recovered by inexpert close-range weapons (archery and muzzleloader) than by centerfire rifles. It’s a lot easier to be lethal at any range with a good centerfire rifle.

Hence my questions about what affects hunter success rates. Iron sights clearly limit effective range, but I am less clear about the contributions of other factors (like time required for a potential follow-up shot).

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Hence my questions about what affects hunter success rates. Iron sights clearly limit effective range, but I am less clear about the contributions of other factors (like time required for a potential follow-up shot).

The only reasons I would oppose a requirement to use single shot rifles are practical and political. I wouldn’t want to make millions of hunting rifles illegal and I would never give up a justification for ordinary people to own repeaters of any kind.

In terms of success rates, I am not sure it makes a measurable difference, but I suspect it matters for recovery rates.

Edit - for what it’s worth, the only deer shot more than once on my farm last year was hit three times by a muzzleloader.

 

[nm.otter]

When/if NM rules allow it, I will happily invest in a single-shot rifle. I am (at this point) not interested in playing muzzie games.

 

[idelkslayer]

I'm sure the numbers are staggering. Point I was trying to make is that everyone is so dependent on optics, rangefinders, and ballistic calculators that a lot of people wouldn't know what to do.

That's the point.

 

[B Harrison]

Sounds a lot like any season now.

Isn’t that all Western hunting now with new shooters taking 600 yard shots with brand new $4000 rigs that they don’t understand?


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[mwoolsey5]

Hunted a Utah open site unit last year. Overall I would not recommend it. Hunted it hard for 5 days, over 40 miles covered on the ground in a unit I am very familiar with. I practiced quite a bit beforehand, but it was by far significantly harder than I expected. It felt like bow hunting with a rifle. I had multiple opportunities where I could have taken a shot, but didn’t feel comfortable with the distance. I hated not having confidence in my shot placement. A few closer opportunities on some smaller bucks, but I didn’t want to shoot a 2 point. I think the preliminary report showed a 40% success rate which surprised me. That seems high for the restrictions in place. Most hunters I interacted with were frustrated and at least to my face said they probably wouldn’t hunt it again. I didn’t see very many bucks in hunters camps or being taken off the mountain. While I would not recommend it, I will be hunting it again this coming year because it’s a chance to hunt every year and get out with my kids.

 

[wyosam]

Id love to see studies of animals wounded from long range hunters vs the good ole' boy with his 30-06 that he shot a box of ammo through right before season to 'sight it in'.

Half a box, the rest are for hunting.


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[BasicUtahrd95]

Half a box, the rest are for hunting.

Haha this was me not that long ago....

 

[cal30_sniper]

The unit I hunted irons shows about a 13% drop in hunter success rate. Less than I would expect, but significant. Still a figure that could be explained by year to year variability, so will take several years to establish any defined trend change.

Days in the field and hunter satisfaction didn’t seem to have any notable change whatsoever.



Edit for additional data. Hunter success rates in same unit/method of take:

2025: 40.9%
2024: 53.4%
2023: 54.6%
2022: 59.8%
2021: 50.6%
2020: 32.3%
2019: 39.0%

So iron sight usage represents a significant dip in success, but not outside the historical variability of the data. There’s a couple of things that could mean, none of which can be determined without about 2 more years of iron sight data (2026/2027).

 

[RWT]

I am still in favor of a hunting license requiring a “test” to prove basic skills. You have to pass one to drive a vehicle why not the same for hunting. The test needs to weed out the Fudds. This should decrease the number of people buying their way in or those that do not shoot enough to be proficient.

As previously stated, we have seen numerous “hunters” that show up to camp with a system they have not practiced with. They instead rely on technology.

 

[Cherokeeguide]

Is it easier or harder to place your shot where you want it to go with a good scope or a good set of iron sights?

Most people will answer by saying that shot placement is easier with optical sights.

I prefer aperture sights.

What I prefer even more is freedom of choice.