Idaho Fish & Game In-person Tag Sales Strategy

[steelheadmike]

Would they though? If you make it easier to apply, then that 60-80K could become 100K. When more people apply, your odds decrease.

I can tell you for a fact that if you went to a draw, the Diamond Creek unit would see an additional three applicants every year. I am one person, in one town, in state and I know of three people that would apply for that unit. Expand that out and tell me how odds would increase by going to a draw?

The problem with going to a draw is that the system you currently have is basically a draw. So people are saying we should fix the current draw system by going to a draw system. Its like taking 20 bucks from you left hand and putting in your right and saying you are richer.

Yes, the system now is a de-facto draw except that a large number of tags are not being sold through the draw. It should be all one draw online. Undoubtedly, it probably would result in some units having decreased odds but it would increase odds in other units. It would be a random draw with odds directly proportional to demand and tag availability. How does that not seem like a better system?

 

[Flyjunky]

Would they though? If you make it easier to apply, then that 60-80K could become 100K. When more people apply, your odds decrease.

I can tell you for a fact that if you went to a draw, the Diamond Creek unit would see an additional three applicants every year. I am one person, in one town, in state and I know of three people that would apply for that unit. Expand that out and tell me how odds would increase by going to a draw?

The problem with going to a draw is that the system you currently have is basically a draw. So people are saying we should fix the current draw system by going to a draw system. Its like taking 20 bucks from you left hand and putting in your right and saying you are richer.

I get what you’re saying but I think most people would look at the applicants for those units and see the odds. I know when I’m looking at units to apply for if I have a 1% chance for unit A or a 25% for unit B I’ll apply to unit B. If you apply for a high demand unit those are the chances you take.

 

[CorbLand]

It feels, to me, like someone is pissing on my head and telling me it's raining and be happy with it while others take all the tags. We/I just want it to me "more" fair, even if that means more people are applying.

Other than being able to purchase them in person...how is someone taking the tags from you?

If your only response is that people can purchase them in person...then think of how many more people are going to apply if you take that away by going to a draw.

If your response is people being able to purchase multiple tags...then change that.

 

[Jason Snyder]

What problems would be fixed by doing a random draw?

The only thing going to draw would "fix" is making it easier for people to apply, thus destroying your odds. Making them purchase a license will not fix anything. It has been proven in many states that purchasing a license is not a big enough deterrent.

This is not true. If Idaho made all units a limited entry draw at one time, you would see odds for many units drastically increase. As it is now, I can buy any elk tag, still put in for the controlled hunts in the summer and then decide to return the tag if if I don't draw my premium tag. This is stupid.

I guarantee you the folks who want to hunt the Owyhees or the Seven Devils would not be competing for the Middle Fork or Selway zones like they currently are.

 

[CorbLand]

Yes, the system now is a de-facto draw except that a large number of tags are not being sold through the draw. It should be all one draw online. Undoubtedly, it probably would result in some units having decreased odds but it would increase odds in other units. It would be a random draw with odds directly proportional to demand and tag availability. How does that not seem like a better system?

Treat the problem not the symptom.

 

[Flyjunky]

Because going to a draw would have more unintended consequences than changing the issues at hand.

I agree that changes should be made but going to a draw is smashing the easy button. If you go to a draw, next year people will be saying that we need a point system and then ten years down the road we will have a point system and then people will be saying we should have....fill in the blank.

The bottom line is that nothing will make people happy and the only reason most people truly want a draw is because they want to log on, apply for the hunt and forget about it until they get an email.

I am all for changes, all I am asking is to think outside the box for things that would make it better instead of the default "take it to a draw" way of thinking.

1. Stagger the elk and deer draws so people arent competing with each other for things they dont want.
2. Break it up into regions and have the draw be a week long and regions are available for select days.
3. Only allow people to purchase up to four tags at a time and they all have to be for the same hunt.

I could be down with that, especially #3.

 

[IdahoBeav]

Vendors abusing the system to make under the table cash deals

This is more myth than fact. It certainly isn't common.

 

[CorbLand]

This is not true. If Idaho made all units a limited entry draw at one time, you would see odds for many units drastically increase. As it is now, I can buy any elk tag, still put in for the controlled hunts in the summer and then decide to return the tag if if I don't draw my premium tag. This is stupid.

I guarantee you the folks who want to hunt the Owyhees or the Seven Devils would not be competing for the Middle Fork or Selway zones like they currently are.

Then change that.

Guys I live in state that has very limited OTC opportunity. Everything is a draw and guess what, people complain about the same damn things that you guys are complaining about. Your solutions have been tried and proven not to fix the things that you want them to. Do not give up what you currently have to not fix a damn thing.

Every state has been doing the same things over and over for the last 40 years and it hasnt solved things. We have to start finding different solutions to our problems.

 

[svivian]

This is more myth than fact. It certainly isn't common.

Doesnt matter its not common its still happening. Examples even listed in this exact thread and others...

 

[Jason Snyder]

Whether or not it fixes anything is in the eye of the beholder. I think the system is broken. The outfitter who can proxy purchase tags out the wazoo loves it. Guess who the legislature is listening to? It ain't me...

 

[Jason Snyder]

Your solutions have been tried and proven not to fix the things that you want them to.

Sorry, but this is unequivocally false. A complete random draw, sans ponzi point schemes, would be a far more equitable and fair way to distribute tags than a system that relies on a server not crashing and people being able to purchase mulitiple NR tags at a time.

 

[IdahoBeav]

Doesnt matter its not common its still happening. Examples even listed in this exact thread and others...

I regularly hear about it locally but never see it, and the story always involves a list or paper tickets. While the list/tickets is common, the exchange of money appears to be imaginary. The list/tickets is a way of allowing people to hold their places in line without blocking the counter and register for normal, non tag-related business, which is completely understandable.

 

[CorbLand]

Sorry, but this is unequivocally false. A complete random draw, sans ponzi point schemes, would be a far more equitable and fair way to distribute tags than a system that relies on a server not crashing and people being able to purchase mulitiple NR tags at a time.

Then fix the server issues, its far better than it was last year and the year before that and eliminate the ability to purchase multiple tags. There are ways to solve this without just taking it to a draw. All going to a draw is going to do is change the things that people complain about and drum up "new" solutions to problems created by going to a draw.

Equitable and fair are subjective.

 

[bpeay4]

Reading through this thread made feel like I was reading comments on a facebook hunting group. People whining and crying about how the system is unfair and how their grand ideas to solve the tag sale issues are superior to the next.

Those of you who do want change, I encourage you contact IDFG directly as the OP mentioned because I guarantee the commissioners are not reading Rokslide threads and Facebook posts to see what change hunters want.

 

[Jason Snyder]

Equitable and fair are subjective.

They certainly are. I already acknowleged perspective is everything.

Whether or not it fixes anything is in the eye of the beholder. I think the system is broken. The outfitter who can proxy purchase tags out the wazoo loves it. Guess who the legislature is listening to? It ain't me...

Carry on...

 

[CorbLand]

They certainly are. I already acknowleged perspective is everything.

Carry on...

And all I am asking is for people to think outside the box on solutions for the problem at hand.

 

[Flyjunky]

Reading through this thread made feel like I was reading comments on a facebook hunting group. People whining and crying about how the system is unfair and how their grand ideas to solve the tag sale issues are superior to the next.

Those of you who do want change, I encourage you contact IDFG directly as the OP mentioned because I guarantee the commissioners are not reading Rokslide threads and Facebook posts to see what change hunters want.

Already did yesterday.

 

[steelheadmike]

Then fix the server issues, its far better than it was last year and the year before that and eliminate the ability to purchase multiple tags. There are ways to solve this without just taking it to a draw. All going to a draw is going to do is change the things that people complain about and drum up new solutions to problems created by going to a draw.

Equitable and fair are subjective.

For those NRs who don't have the time/resources to stand in line for hours, it already is a draw. I still haven't seen a logical argument as to why the current system is better than anything else, currently.

The ID system worked reasonably well until 2021 when they implemented the NR caps. Instead of all the tags getting allocated from the NR pool of ~12k tags (capped zones worked a little different), the pools got much smaller and demand for individual zones skyrocketed. IDFG is trying to use an old set of rules but playing on a new field. The rules needs to change, accordingly.

 

[CorbLand]

For those NRs who don't have the time/resources to stand in line for hours, it already is a draw. I still haven't seen a logical argument as to why the current system is better than anything else, currently.

The ID system worked reasonably well until 2021 when they implemented the NR caps. Instead of all the tags getting allocated from the NR pool of ~12k tags (capped zones worked a little different), the pools got much smaller and demand for individual zones skyrocketed. IDFG is trying to use an old set of rules but playing on a new field. The rules needs to change, accordingly.

I dont disagree that the rules need to change. I disagree that a draw is going to fix the issues at hand and not create a whole other set of issues of its own.

I live in a state that has far more draws and significantly less OTC options than Idaho. Its the same complaints here too. The things that people are offering as a "solution" have been tried here. It didnt work if we have the same issues. That is why I say the current system Idaho has is better.

Demand is sky rocketing, regardless of what some people say, and finding ways to curtail it is difficult.

 

[ez_willie]

Other than being able to purchase them in person...how is someone taking the tags from you?

If your only response is that people can purchase them in person...then think of how many more people are going to apply if you take that away by going to a draw.

If your response is people being able to purchase multiple tags...then change that.

Why do you keep repeating that more people will apply if it goes to a draw? Is there really more than 100k people in other states entering their draws? I don’t follow draws close because I’m not a point collector and hunt every year. MT shows about 47k people in the Deer/elk general entry.