Idaho Fish & Game In-person Tag Sales Strategy

[Idaboy]

So...do you define it as kinship? If a person has a spouse and 3 kids does he get one choice? Who polices this....the clerk at Cabela’s?

This becomes a rabbit hole.

Like I said, I just want to know the rules of the game so I can get my strategy together.

Agree, total rabbit hole....so it's probably gonna continue like it is, too difficult to police (or you have to do proxy sales at a FG office)....but unfortunately people abuse the system, an outfitter buying a bunch of otc tags is rediculous.....just like you can't police if someone online is buying for someone else

 

[Idaboy]

I agree with 90% of what is being said here. The way I see it, there are two paths that IDFG can go here:

Option 1

• Require a license purchase prior to purchasing tags.
• License sales is suspended on Dec 1 (you can't stand in line, get a license, then get a tag). This would force people to have a some skin in the game and cut down on the flood of online traffic.
• Allow only one proxy tag sale per person. If you want more than one proxy tag, bring a friend. If the outfitters want tags above and beyond what is already allocated to them, they have to play by the same rules as everyone else. Allowing proxy sales opens the door for so many shenanigans. Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing them eliminated completely.

This option still doesn't allow for party hunts, which I think is the biggest shortcoming of the current system.


Option 2

The better option, to me.

• Make it a dang draw. Simple, done. Online only.
• License purchase required to enter draw.
• Applications open Dec 1 and close Dec 31. Results in late January. Run it just like the controlled hunt draw.
• Allow party applications.

The system is already in place. The idea that the current system is "OTC" is laughable. There's nothing OTC about it. It's a de-facto draw.

Option 1
Agree.....but an outfitter will probably then send 10 of his guides to buy 20 tags.

The online is a draw currently, but in person is not..

OPTION 3 ...when you show up in person YOU receive a random number, and YOU get put in the virtual waiting room with your number and then wait with the rest of us....see how many guys show up in person then !

 

[7mm-08]

There are horror stories every year about the online waiting room booting people before purchase and some of you want to totally depend on that system to function? I've talked to fish and game employees and they know that they can't handle the site traffic. That site needs to be bulletproof for that to work.

This actually isn't true anymore at fish and game offices. Anyone who wants more than 5 tags gets sent to their own line now. If you have less than that, you go to the other terminals. They covered it in the last meeting. I think it was the right move.

How would you eliminate proxy buying at other 3rd party vendors like you described? No proxy buying at all?
Can't buy tags for your kids anymore?
Immediate family can proxy purchase?
Cap it at 2,3, or 5 tags per buyer?

Not saying there isn't some room for improvement, But changing just for the sake of change seems like we are setting ourselves up for some unintended consequences.

The new "high volume" terminal practice started after the November meeting of the Idaho Fish and Game Commission. Time will tell how this works.

I never suggested that proxy purchases should be eliminated - in fact I endorsed it in my original post. You have an excellent point regarding proxy purchases for kids because we certainly want to encourage our youth to hunt and fish and forcing them to participate in the "stand in line madness" would do just the opposite.

Changing for the sake of change is not my objective - the elimination of a historic Department practice that flies in the face of fundamental fairness is.

 

[Beendare]

I bet a lot of guys flew in and didn’t get a tag…they went quick.


It doesn’t seem right any resident can buy a tag for anyone else inc total strangers…with no limit. Maybe let residents buy tags for family members they are hunting with?

Of the 25 guys waiting in line with me before it opened, only 2 were non res with many of the guys trying to buy multiple tags- I didn’t ask how many were getting paid to freeze their asses off.
———

on a separate note, those tags went fast- really fast. I would be interested to hear- offline by PM- what time you didn’t get the tag you wanted. I was first in line and didn’t get a unit with a little over 200 tags available.

 

[7mm-08]

So if I fly out to Idaho next year and have my parties information I can get tags for everyone?

Yes, the way the current system is set up, you can do just that. My effort is one that would eliminate this historic fundamentally unfair practice of allowing one individual to purchase tags for third parties who are not present at the point of sale.

 

[idahodave]

What most of you fail to realize is the current situation is being left in place PRIMARILY to benefit Outfitters and Guides....it's a way to drive up their business. They are a VERY influential group politically speaking in this state. I know this because it's the arena I work in.

Find a "solution" that still allows them to get extra tags and you'll be well on your way to cleaning up this mess. Fail to do so, and you'll be complaining about this problem the rest of your lives I'm guessing.

FWIW...I"m not saying it's "right" that the system is being used this way. I'm just saying the fact that it allows Outfitters and Guides to exploit it is where a LOT of the support is coming from.

Dave

 

[steelheadmike]

on a separate note, those tags went fast- really fast. I would be interested to hear- offline by PM- what time you didn’t get the tag you wanted. I was first in line and didn’t get a unit with a little over 200 tags available.

I have a feeling there is some widespread "tom-foolery" going on that allows certain vendors to purchase tags ahead of everyone else. I can't put a finger on it, but this scenario is happening enough that it doesn't seem to be coincidence.

 

[Wrench]

I have a feeling there is some widespread "tom-foolery" going on that allows certain vendors to purchase tags ahead of everyone else. I can't put a finger on it, but this scenario is happening enough that it doesn't seem to be coincidence.

I witnessed some of the best tags get sold. There is a strategy, but it was 100% legit.

 

[TX_Diver]

It matters not how the tags are sold; someone will not be happy. As far as the outfitters buying tags, well I asked the outfitters myself. Response from them, I can not support my business or family on the tags allocated to me by IDFG. Also know the one outfitter had his ppl at three locations trying to get tags. FYI I stood and sat in line for 46 hours, and I was not in the top ten spots in line.

Are people literally camping outside of license vendors? Like mid 2000s black friday type stuff?

How long had the people who were first in line there for?

 

[Beendare]

Are people literally camping outside of license vendors? Like mid 2000s black friday type stuff?

How long had the people who were first in line there for?

Yes, and it snowed all night

 

[Wrench]

Are people literally camping outside of license vendors? Like mid 2000s black friday type stuff?

How long had the people who were first in line there for?

Yes. I am not sure how long they were there. More than 5 hours early.....I know that much.

 

[steelheadmike]

What most of you fail to realize is the current situation is being left in place PRIMARILY to benefit Outfitters and Guides....it's a way to drive up their business. They are a VERY influential group politically speaking in this state. I know this because it's the arena I work in.

Find a "solution" that still allows them to get extra tags and you'll be well on your way to cleaning up this mess. Fail to do so, and you'll be complaining about this problem the rest of your lives I'm guessing.

FWIW...I"m not saying it's "right" that the system is being used this way. I'm just saying the fact that it allows Outfitters and Guides to exploit it is where a LOT of the support is coming from.

Dave

There's no denying that this is the case. The system of an outfitter allocation is "supposed" to allow them access to tags not available to the general public. I get that the current outfitter allocation may not meet the demand for their business. The system doesn't have to be fair to everyone but the blatant exploitation of the system needs to be curtailed.

 

[Idaboy]

I witnessed some of the best tags get sold. There is a strategy, but it was 100% legit.

Please expand on said strategy

 

[Z Barebow]

As others have mentioned, if the system stays the same. People are unhappy. If the system is changed, people will be unhappy. (Maybe not the same ones! Lol) Supply will NEVER match the demand by Non Residents. (At least the way data is trending) Can the system be more fair? I think so. The Commission established the rules in the sandbox. They shoulder the responsibility to revise those rules in the interest of fairness.

RE Proxy Purchasing. Should NON Resident purchasing be capped at one person? Yes.

Should resident proxy purchasing be limited to one person? NO! (FYI. Resident tags are sold on a different date and are NOT part of NR system)I agree with others. If I were a family that lived in McCall and I wanted to buy tags for my wife and kids I should be able to do that. Hunting needs to be promoted and is a fantastic experience. But since when did buying NON RESIDENT proxy tags for as many people as you have account information become a "right"?

RE: Outfitters proxy purchasing tags. See exhibits below. This zone was picked to highlight a point. I am not commenting on hunt quality of zone. If you hunt there, good for you. If you never heard of it, the point is still valid.

For residents, the zone is NOT capped. All of Idaho can buy an A tag if they want. (If someone already hunts there, they would likely tell you it already is happening!)

Compare the NR allocation to the outfitter allocation from 2023 to 2024. The total is exactly the same. Outfitter allocation increased in 2024 at the expense of NR tag allocations. Did the commission make this change "just because"? Would this increase in outfitter tags stopped any outfitter from buying additional NR tags via proxy for that zone? (You can fill in the blanks) IE Loophole and still an opportunity for abuse.

 

[Idaboy]

What most of you fail to realize is the current situation is being left in place PRIMARILY to benefit Outfitters and Guides....it's a way to drive up their business. They are a VERY influential group politically speaking in this state. I know this because it's the arena I work in.

Find a "solution" that still allows them to get extra tags and you'll be well on your way to cleaning up this mess. Fail to do so, and you'll be complaining about this problem the rest of your lives I'm guessing.

FWIW...I"m not saying it's "right" that the system is being used this way. I'm just saying the fact that it allows Outfitters and Guides to exploit it is where a LOT of the support is coming from.

Dave

Make in-person sales pull a random number too when they arrive ....see how many outfitters show up then

 

[7mm-08]

Are people literally camping outside of license vendors? Like mid 2000s black friday type stuff?

How long had the people who were first in line there for?

Yes, this it exactly what is happening. The first guy in line at the Department's Headquarters Office on Walnut in Boise for the resident Sawtooth Zone sale claimed he had been there for four days!

 

[Wrench]

Please expand on said strategy

Watch the movie "Kingpin".

That's all I can say.

 

[rodney482]

Are people literally camping outside of license vendors? Like mid 2000s black friday type stuff?

How long had the people who were first in line there for?

Days

I got a buddy who flew from IL w his buddies and stood in line 5 hrs. They got their tags

 

[87TT]

None of these proposed changes are going to work. Anyone else notice that the "problems " started when the prices went up and the NR unit/zone caps went in?
I don't hear anyone feel sorry for the outfitters who's customers suddenly couldn't get tags after the changes. For the record, I don't use an outfitter, don't know any outfitter and don't know anybody who uses an outfitter.
But if I was a commissioner or state legislator, who would I be inclined to look out for, an outfitter who lives here, works here, pays taxes here, votes here and who's friends and family live, work, pay taxes and vote here OR a NR hunter who doesn't? Outfitters are just trying to adapt and survive when the rules keep changing.
I say leave it alone and after a few years, the demand will drop and it won't be an issue.

 

[IdahoBeav]

They need to increase nonres prices until the demand falls to a level that the tags don't sell out the first day.