Idaho Fish & Game In-person Tag Sales Strategy

[CorbLand]

Who said anything about deterrent? How about not having a system that kicks you out after 3+ hours of waiting? People buying 20+ licenses at a time?

Like I said, this is for nr and every nr should go through the same process and have the same odds.

So maybe the suggestion should be to eliminate the ability to buy tags for someone else...not a draw.

The system is getting better...way less people got kicked out this year than previous years. No state that runs a system like this has great success with it.

 

[87TT]

So by that logic, if I move to idaho, become a resident next year and then open up an outfitter business, I should expect that I can then just get more tags for clients?......I still don't see the logic that just because they've chosen that as a profession, that the government is responsible for helping them attain/retain clients

So if you have a business and the government changes the rules causing you to suffer, and you find a way to make the new rules work, you're the bad guy?

That's not what caused the problem. The problem is due to the extreme increase in nonres travelling west to hunt. Hunting out-of-state should be a luxury and should be priced so. The unit and zone caps are absolutely needed, but they are needed for both nonres and res, at least for elk (already in effect) and mule deer.

That's funny. Before all the changes, tags didn't sell out until almost the season opener. I could buy leftover NR tags in August every year if I had wanted.

"You want people to feel sorry for outfitters? Ha, that’s funny. Don’t they already have tags set aside? I own a business and sure wish the govt guaranteed me business, what a crock of sh*t and I absolutely hate when people use that excuse."
Random NR or resident taxpayer............hmmm

 

[Flyjunky]

Because everyone is logging in at approximately the same time causing website issues. Just a few years ago. it wasn't an issue.
And people that show up in person don't get a random number at all.

Ok, so once again, how is it first come first serve right now? It might have been that way but it isn’t now.

“ And people that show up in person don’t get a random number at all “…..so it’s only random for some NR? Got it. That seems pretty fair. It would be cool if every state did that.

 

[Flyjunky]

So maybe the suggestion should be to eliminate the ability to buy tags for someone else...not a draw.

The system is getting better...way less people got kicked out this year than previous years. No state that runs a system like this has great success with it.

That would be one option for sure and even better if everyone had to use the same system/process.

What other states use a single day, computer system and vendor purchase system like Idaho?

 

[CorbLand]

That would be one option for sure and even better if everyone had to use the same system/process.

What other states use a single day, computer system and vendor purchase system like Idaho?

If your goal is to make it "fair" it is the only option. Going to a draw will not fix the things that people want it to fix.

Utah.

One thing I do like about Utah is that they stagger the days, so those trying to buy a spike only tag are not taking up bandwidth with the guys wanting an any bull tag.

 

[Chucklehead]

Ok, so once again, how is it first come first serve right now? It might have been that way but it isn’t now.

“ And people that show up in person don’t get a random number at all “…..so it’s only random for some NR? Got it. That seems pretty fair. It would be cool if every state did that.

I don't know what to tell you.
All I know is: If you get to the buying portal first, you get a tag.

 

[Flyjunky]

If your goal is to make it "fair" it is the only option. Going to a draw will not fix the things that people want it to fix.

Utah.

One thing I do like about Utah is that they stagger the days, so those trying to buy a spike only tag are not taking up bandwidth with the guys wanting an any bull tag.

I guess I’m confused because the complaints I see most are computer issues, people buying tags for others, and no group apps. How does a random draw not fix those issues (group app would have to be implemented)?

In the end, I think most people just want it to be fair.

 

[MattB]

I've never understood people who expect that state's government should be responsive to requests to change policy by non-residents.

 

[LFC911]

None of these proposed changes are going to work. Anyone else notice that the "problems " started when the prices went up and the NR unit/zone caps went in?
I don't hear anyone feel sorry for the outfitters who's customers suddenly couldn't get tags after the changes. For the record, I don't use an outfitter, don't know any outfitter and don't know anybody who uses an outfitter.
But if I was a commissioner or state legislator, who would I be inclined to look out for, an outfitter who lives here, works here, pays taxes here, votes here and who's friends and family live, work, pay taxes and vote here OR a NR hunter who doesn't? Outfitters are just trying to adapt and survive when the rules keep changing.
I say leave it alone and after a few years, the demand will drop and it won't be an issue.

I hear you keep saying it will never work but I don't understand why you care if anything changes for a NR if you are a R? Is there some reason you're benefitting or gaming the current system that you may not be able to if it does change? Just curious, i wouldn't think you would have a dog in the fight.

 

[Alder_]

I've never understood people who expect that state's government should be responsive to requests to change policy by non-residents.

They sure do love their money.

Edit to add: This isn't changing anything for Residents. This isn't asking residents to allocate more tags to NR.
This is simply identifying the flaws in the current system, the system that NR (likely) contribute more money towards (I don't have the stats for ID but is certainly the case in most western states) and asking for a fairer implementation for the NR's interested in hunting and funding your State's management.

 

[IdahoBeav]

That's funny. Before all the changes, tags didn't sell out until almost the season opener. I could buy leftover NR tags in August every year if I had wanted.

Correlation not causation, there were returned general and WT deer tags available in Oct. that you or I could have picked up as a 2nd, and there were several elk zones available. There were a few of the most coveted OTC archery tags available in mid Sep. In a matter of fact, there was a WT tag available last week during my deer trip. Had I filled my res tag sooner than the last day of my hunt, I may have ran down and bought a 2nd WT. I believe the tag(s) is actually still available but would require purchase at a regional office since the online system is all geared for '24 now.

 

[ez_willie]

What problems would be fixed by doing a random draw?

The only thing going to draw would "fix" is making it easier for people to apply, thus destroying your odds. Making them purchase a license will not fix anything. It has been proven in many states that purchasing a license is not a big enough deterrent.

I cannot stress enough how many people do not want to deal with the current system so they dont. If you make it easier for them to apply, they will. The current system, while not flawless, is basically a random draw and people are complaining about it. If you think people wont complain about a draw...I dont know what to tell you.

I know nothing about draws but I guarantee the the poor people at home getting 1 random number in a line of 60-80k online would have better odds in a draw. Multiple zones were sold out before the online que even went through a couple hundred people. Please don’t make me do math, im not that smart.

 

[steelheadmike]

I guess I’m confused because the complaints I see most are computer issues, people buying tags for others, and no group apps. How does a random draw not fix those issues (group app would have to be implemented)?

In the end, I think most people just want it to be fair.

This 100%.

The only defenses of the current system I am seeing are:
a) "The system is fine. I can get my tag. Screw the people who can't figure out how to game the system."
b) "What about the outfitters?! How ever will they get the 40% of NR tags not already allocated to them??"

Just make it a draw and be done with all the BS.

 

[CorbLand]

I know nothing about draws but I guarantee the the poor people at home getting 1 random number in a line of 60-80k online would have better odds in a draw. Multiple zones were sold out before the online que even went through a couple hundred people. Please don’t make me do math, im not that smart.

Would they though? If you make it easier to apply, then that 60-80K could become 100K. When more people apply, your odds decrease.

I can tell you for a fact that if you went to a draw, the Diamond Creek unit would see an additional three applicants every year. I am one person, in one town, in state and I know of three people that would apply for that unit. Expand that out and tell me how odds would increase by going to a draw?

The problem with going to a draw is that the system you currently have is basically a draw. So people are saying we should fix the current draw system by going to a draw system. Its like taking 20 bucks from you left hand and putting in your right and saying you are richer.

 

[CorbLand]

I guess I’m confused because the complaints I see most are computer issues, people buying tags for others, and no group apps. How does a random draw not fix those issues (group app would have to be implemented)?

In the end, I think most people just want it to be fair.

Because going to a draw would have more unintended consequences than changing the issues at hand.

I agree that changes should be made but going to a draw is smashing the easy button. If you go to a draw, next year people will be saying that we need a point system and then ten years down the road we will have a point system and then people will be saying we should have....fill in the blank.

The bottom line is that nothing will make people happy and the only reason most people truly want a draw is because they want to log on, apply for the hunt and forget about it until they get an email.

I am all for changes, all I am asking is to think outside the box for things that would make it better instead of the default "take it to a draw" way of thinking.

1. Stagger the elk and deer draws so people arent competing with each other for things they dont want.
2. Break it up into regions and have the draw be a week long and regions are available for select days.
3. Only allow people to purchase up to four tags at a time and they all have to be for the same hunt.

 

[Slim Jim]

I agree with the OP. I was only #39 in line and tags sold out about 2 minutes before I got to the counter. Most people in front of me were locals buying 3,4, 5 or more tags for multiple people. Slowed the line WAY down. Not only that but some of the locals just threw a chair out in line the day before to reserve a spot and weren’t even present. Sucks because it doesn’t look like I’ll get to hunt elk in Idaho anymore. Haven’t had a tag since they changed the system.


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[LFC911]

The problem with going to a draw is that the system you currently have is basically a draw. So people are saying we should fix the current draw system by going to a draw system. Its like taking 20 bucks from you left hand and putting in your right and saying you are richer.

It feels, to me, like someone is pissing on my head and telling me it's raining and be happy with it while others take all the tags. We/I just want it to me "more" fair, even if that means more people are applying.

 

[svivian]

Put me in the camp of someone who likes the system for the most part but would be nice to see some small tweaks. I was 34,xxx in line and when my time came there were still elk and deer tags available. Since none of my researched units were available I passed. My buddy in 18,xxx in line got one of his deer tag choices. Neither of us had any issues online. The wait time was also was not horrible like i thought it would be considering my random number.

Pros:
Being able to buy any tag available rather than a draw system where I only get one shot at one tag
Being able to buy a deer and elk tag at the same time
Being apart of the process rather than anxiously waiting for results
Those who put effort in and time are rewarded to an extent.
Being able to get tags for family and friends to hunt same units.

Cons
Outfitters and individuals who play in the grey area and are buying excessive amounts of tags for others or themselves.
Vendors abusing the system to make under the table cash deals

 

[svivian]

I agree with the OP. I was only #39 in line and tags sold out about 2 minutes before I got to the counter. Most people in front of me were locals buying 3,4, 5 or more tags for multiple people. Slowed the line WAY down. Not only that but some of the locals just threw a chair out in line the day before to reserve a spot and weren’t even present. Sucks because it doesn’t look like I’ll get to hunt elk in Idaho anymore. Haven’t had a tag since they changed the system.


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There were no elk tags available at all or just the elk tags you wanted?

 

[steelheadmike]

Would they though? If you make it easier to apply, then that 60-80K could become 100K. When more people apply, your odds decrease.

I can tell you for a fact that if you went to a draw, the Diamond Creek unit would see an additional three applicants every year. I am one person, in one town, in state and I know of three people that would apply for that unit. Expand that out and tell me how odds would increase by going to a draw?

The problem with going to a draw is that the system you currently have is basically a draw. So people are saying we should fix the current draw system by going to a draw system. Its like taking 20 bucks from you left hand and putting in your right and saying you are richer.

Yes, the system now is a de-facto draw except that a large number of tags are not being sold through the draw. It should be all one draw online. Undoubtedly, it probably would result in some units having decreased odds but it would increase odds in other units. It would be a random draw with odds directly proportional to demand and tag availability. How does that not seem like a better system?