I dont understand the hostility towards wolf reintroduction in Colorado

[Dos XX]

i am not educated enough on the ecology and the actual impact of different wolf sub species on wild life or the ecosystem.

There we have it. Why bother with actual knowledge? Notice I said knowledge, not information.

 

[Braaap]

@Loo.wii wolves wont be managed and i think thats the lense you have to look through when thinking about this topic. Could wolves exist in a balanced management structure? Maybe. With our current wildlife management/politics the answer is no way. Wolves are highly emotional for certain groups of people and they will fight to keep any sort of realistic management plan shutdown. Look at horses. Not a predator but super destructive to native flora and fauna and no F-info way they will ever be managed appropriately.

 

[wyogoat]

hey man thats how i would address my friends and people that i casually talk to. you you prefer sir? dear leader? asshole ?

I think this attitude is why you’re getting the responses you are. It’s obvious you aren’t gaining anything or reading up on the material you’ve requested. This is for the response is all.

 

[alecvg]

I appreciate the comment. What angle does your opposition to wolves stem from. is it the ranching angle?

Ranching and hunting, I used to work with alot of ranchers all over Western Montana, saw the issues they had with wolves, especially during calving season, and on summer pasture. It can be very difficult to get reimbursement from wolf predation if you don't find the kill immediately, which you don't when they are on summer pasture.

I also have guided all over Idaho and Montana, and have seen the negative impact on elk and moose specifically. In my experience they don't hit the deer as hard, also in my experience, the elk seem to figure it out and rebound to some extent, but it takes a decade or more. I know there are alot of areas in NW Montana that the elk seemed to get hit especially hard, that seem to be having a much harder time rebounding. You definitely need to drastically change tactics in areas with a heavy wolf presence.

 

[Loo.wii]

There we have it. Why bother with actual knowledge? Notice I said knowledge, not information.

right and im not going to pursue a phd in ecology. thats why i want perspective

 

[CorbLand]

So a guy obviously new to hunting comes on and asks for different perspectives, and the majority of the responses are the opposite of helpful, sarcastic, bashing, and in many cases rude.

He has had some sarcastic responses, (like many from the rest of you), but has admitted he doesn't have all the info and stated multiple times he would look into points people brought up.

I think the bashing and general assholeness of most of the responses on here are ridiculous and pitiful. Why not explain your perspective and try to educate in a non confrontational way.

For the record, I do not support the wolf reintroduction, and am no fan of wolves. But lets try something new and not be a bunch of dicks with someone who admittedly lacks perspective.

I mean generally when you are trying to learn, you take the information and perspectives from people and research them. You dont ask people to provide the research they read to back their response. You do that when people provide an opinion that differs from yours, not when you are trying to learn.

When you start breaking out "homie," "bruh," etc that is also a dead give away that you arent really trying to learn or have an intelligent conversation. Even if that is how you talk in real life, knowing your audience is helpful. I use those words too but when I call you homie, its not a term of endearment.

 

[alecvg]

I will also add that I think most these folks are correct, we will never get a season to hunt or trap wolves in Colorado. Even when you do, they are a very difficult animal to hunt or trap. I know a handful of guys who have some consistent success, but they dedicate a tremendous amount of time and money to it.

 

[Loo.wii]

I think this attitude is why you’re getting the responses you are. It’s obvious you aren’t gaining anything or reading up on the material you’ve requested. This is for the response is all.

i have certianly been reading it. ive also become more aware of the impact on livestock. for example I became aware of the difficulties durrng the reimbursement process for ranchers.

 

[UncleBone]

@Loo.wii Take a look at where the money for the ballot initiative came from in the first place. That is a big part of why it passed, and should scare anyone who has any idea of what the global elite wants for the rest of the world

 

[Loo.wii]

@Loo.wii Take a look at where the money for the ballot initiative came from in the first place. That is a big part of why it passed, and should scare anyone who has any idea of what the global elite wants for the rest of the world
View attachment 658211

interesting

 

[fngTony]

Let’s keep this as a healthy maybe slightly heated debate but either way keep it respectful to each other.

 

[jtevanMT]

Like many on this string, I have lived through the wolf re-introduction in MT and personally experienced a dramatic decrease in hunting opportunities and a decimated elk/moose populations in areas where wolves became over populated. Some of these area have rebounded when a hunting/trapping season were introduced for wolves, while others have not recovered. YES, I am biased because I enjoy hunting with friends and family and filling my freezer. Others (guides, outfitters, ranchers) have lost their jobs.

Here are some graphs representing the impacts on the Northern Yellowstone elk herd following the wolf re-introduction. (from: Aspen recruitment in the Yellowstone region linked to
reduced herbivory after large carnivore restoration, Painter et al, Ecosphere, Aug 2018.)

 

[Loo.wii]

I will also add that I think most these folks are correct, we will never get a season to hunt or trap wolves in Colorado. Even when you do, they are a very difficult animal to hunt or trap. I know a handful of guys who have some consistent success, but they dedicate a tremendous amount of time and money to it.

im curious. on the critical mass of wolves that need to exist to cause some of the worst case scenario situations that some individuals are describing. In my hypothetical imagine if there are and could only ever be 10 wolves in Colorado. would there be a significant impact? now 100, 1000 etc. im not asking you im just working through the idea in my head. how many wolves would it take to cause serious issue?

 

[spike camp]

interesting

What kind of reply is that?
It’s not interesting, it’s completely f’ed up.

 

[PNW bow hunter]

im curious. on the critical mass of wolves that need to exist to cause some of the worst case scenario situations that some individuals are describing. In my hypothetical imagine if there are and could only ever be 10 wolves in Colorado. would there be a significant impact? now 100, 1000 etc. im not asking you im just working through the idea in my head. how many wolves would it take to cause serious issue?

Oregon has a minimum population of around 172 wolves

Fish and wildlife house to kill packs that target livestock every single year

If I remember correctly, all 10 of the wolves we were gracious enough to trap and relocate to Colorado. We’re all problem wolves that would’ve needed to be shot anyways.

 

[Ucsdryder]

Wich people have been convinced the outdoors are only for certain people?

Who convinced them?

Golfers don’t want more golfers

Snowboarders don’t want more snowboarders

Concert goers don’t want more concert goers

Surfers don’t want more surfers


Why can’t hunter not want more hunters?

Don’t tell me we need to grow our sport or it’ll get voted out…we’re a tiny fraction of the voting community and we can double or triple the outdoor community and it’ll have ZERO outcome at the ballot box.

 

[Walmart Greeter]

Golfers don’t want more golfers

Snowboarders don’t want more snowboarders

Concert goers don’t want more concert goers

Surfers don’t want more surfers


Why can’t hunter not want more hunters?

Don’t tell me we need to grow our sport or it’ll get voted out…we’re a tiny fraction of the voting community and we can double or triple the outdoor community and it’ll have ZERO outcome at the ballot box.

These forums are the worst thing for hunting cause it gives anti hunters something tangible to use for their agendas.

 

[alecvg]

im curious. on the critical mass of wolves that need to exist to cause some of the worst case scenario situations that some individuals are describing. In my hypothetical imagine if there are and could only ever be 10 wolves in Colorado. would there be a significant impact? now 100, 1000 etc. im not asking you im just working through the idea in my head. how many wolves would it take to cause serious issue?

I don’t know what the numbers, but they reproduce quickly to a population level that will make detrimental impacts to some extent. Like I said, even with a harvest season, they are almost unmanageable without government assistance (helicopter gunning). The success rates for harvesting wolves in states like Montana or Idaho is very low, like less than 1%.

 

[dirtytough]

OP. Wolves aren’t a hunters friend. They will kill the same things you want to hunt. Since there will be less animals to hunt, hunters won’t be able to hunt as much.

Obviously some states hunters can swap from hunting deer/elk to wolves instead. But wolves probably won’t ever be legal to hunt in Colorado. And wolves are harder to hunt than deer and elk. So most hunters aren’t going to take a week off work to go hunt something they have a very slim chance to be successful.

Ranching is a business. If something cuts into your profits you wouldn’t want that thing around your business. It happens all the time with government and voters though.




I’m curious about a few things in this thread.

When ranchers complain about deer and elk on their private land they get hunters saying it’s your fault. Let us hunt your land or put up with it. You shouldn’t be able to sell tags to help pay for the food that has been eaten and the fences torn down. Now that it’s wolves causing the rancher financial pains hunters don’t think ranchers are getting enough compensation.

How many open grazing leases are there on the public land where wolves roam? I’m assuming there are a lot going by this thread. If there aren’t a bunch why not?

How many ranchers have went out of business and had to sell because of wolves? I haven’t seen any info on that but I would assume a few in areas that wolves are the densest.

In regards to impacts on moose: https://www.nrahlf.org/articles/2018/3/2/study-shows-wolves-directly-impact-minnesota-moose-numbers/

One could ask themself why moose are in peril in MN but seem to be thriving in nearby ND where they actually have moose hunting seasons.. it ain’t because ND has more moose habitat.

I believe there are some units that have been closed for over 10 years in ND. Last year they cut tags also in most of the open units if I remember correctly.

There are a few NE states with a plummeting moose population also.

Not saying wolves don’t hurt moose numbers. Its not just places with wolves where moose numbers are dropping though.



I personally would rather there not be many wolves on the landscape. I can understand from a non hunter non rancher perspective though how they aren’t the devil. Why would a non hunter care if it’s me killing the elk or a wolf? How would the non hunter understand ranchers aren’t getting full compensation for the wolf impact to their bottom line?

 

[Btaylor]

Since you said you were from Florida, maybe you should take a look at the everglades as another example of how to f'up an ecosystem with the introduction of a non-native apex predator. People turned their pythons loose and look at what has happened there.

In the case of CO, the wolf is just a distraction. Look at the people involved in driving the bus and their motivations.