How will 75% Tag Allocation Affect Preference Points in CO?

[mavinwa2]

NR will lose opportunity to draw tags, be a bit harder with new ratio limitations.

Remember the percent ratios 65/35 and 75/25 are designated as UP TO.
In other words, not guaranteed tags to NR in that 35% or new 25% ratios. Limits place that non-residents cannot draw more tags than the respective percent assigned.
Checking actual CO draw results, in some units' residents are at 70/30, 75/25 already or close to it.

My good hunting friend Paul/Grand Junction and I had many discussions over NR limitations sitting next to our campfire at OTC elk camp. Yes, the very crowded unit 62. He claims CO residents want equity, more draw tags numbers and reduce OTC for NR to draw only within the set draw ratios or eliminate OTC NR altogether.
Yet keep OTC resident as is, non-restricted.

CO residents are missing the bigger $$$ picture...let's just focus on the 2021 CO** published numbers for elk license statistics. As the elk category will make the largest impact to, yes, REVENUE for the state of CO.

Elk licenses listed below include basic hunt license, Habitat Stamp, elk tag, elk app for draw.
Resident/R $130, Non-Resident/NR $934, NR 7x more overall or 87% higher than R.
Getting to the bottom line:
2021 elk sales revenue, including OTC : R $16.8M, NR $67.2M
75/25% adjusted numbers of the ratio : R $17.1M, NR $46.9M
The NR variance represents SHORTFALL of $20.3 MILLION DOLLARS!
Based on CO 2021 elk license draw & sale reports; How does CPW make up a loss of $20+M to their budget? Especially as operational costs will continue to increase within the department.

If I understand correctly, Most of Colorado Parks & Wildlife budget is determined sale of various licenses, permits, passes etc.
"Colorado Parks and Wildlife relies primarily on license sales, state park fees, and registration fees to support its operations and mission to perpetuate the wildlife resources of the state, to provide a quality state parks system, and to provide enjoyable and sustainable outdoor recreation opportunities that educate ..."

CO Resident hunters shouldn't have to scratch their heads and wonder what's coming for them down the pipeline. Need more concern about future opportunity & costs, rather than if it's easier for residents or more difficult for non-residents to draw tags.
Money is Money, period. Shortfalls in the business world are always made up, one way or the other.

Snap, Crackle, Pop; "Well Paul, I guess some future years you will have to hunt OTC by yourself...as I might not draw."

**

Colorado Sells More Nonresident Elk Tags than all Seven Western States Combined - Jurisdiction on Federally Owned Public Lands Colorado Hunting and Tag Allocation

Colorado sells more nonresident elk licenses than all seven western states combined. No State treats residents hunters worse than Colorado.

publiclandjurisdiction.com

 

[Mcribs]

NR will lose opportunity to draw tags, be a bit harder with new ratio limitations.

Remember the percent ratios 65/35 and 75/25 are designated as UP TO.
In other words, not guaranteed tags to NR in that 35% or new 25% ratios. Limits place that non-residents cannot draw more tags than the respective percent assigned.
Checking actual CO draw results, in some units' residents are at 70/30, 75/25 already or close to it.

My good hunting friend Paul/Grand Junction and I had many discussions over NR limitations sitting next to our campfire at OTC elk camp. Yes, the very crowded unit 62. He claims CO residents want equity, more draw tags numbers and reduce OTC for NR to draw only within the set draw ratios or eliminate OTC NR altogether.
Yet keep OTC resident as is, non-restricted.

CO residents are missing the bigger $$$ picture...let's just focus on the 2021 CO** published numbers for elk license statistics. As the elk category will make the largest impact to, yes, REVENUE for the state of CO.

Elk licenses listed below include basic hunt license, Habitat Stamp, elk tag, elk app for draw.
Resident/R $130, Non-Resident/NR $934, NR 7x more overall or 87% higher than R.
Getting to the bottom line:
2021 elk sales revenue, including OTC : R $16.8M, NR $67.2M
75/25% adjusted numbers of the ratio : R $17.1M, NR $46.9M
The NR variance represents SHORTFALL of $20.3 MILLION DOLLARS!
Based on CO 2021 elk license draw & sale reports; How does CPW make up a loss of $20+M to their budget? Especially as operational costs will continue to increase within the department.

If I understand correctly, Most of Colorado Parks & Wildlife budget is determined sale of various licenses, permits, passes etc.
"Colorado Parks and Wildlife relies primarily on license sales, state park fees, and registration fees to support its operations and mission to perpetuate the wildlife resources of the state, to provide a quality state parks system, and to provide enjoyable and sustainable outdoor recreation opportunities that educate ..."

CO Resident hunters shouldn't have to scratch their heads and wonder what's coming for them down the pipeline. Need more concern about future opportunity & costs, rather than if it's easier for residents or more difficult for non-residents to draw tags.
Money is Money, period. Shortfalls in the business world are always made up, one way or the other.

Snap, Crackle, Pop; "Well Paul, I guess some future years you will have to hunt OTC by yourself...as I might not draw."

**

Colorado Sells More Nonresident Elk Tags than all Seven Western States Combined - Jurisdiction on Federally Owned Public Lands Colorado Hunting and Tag Allocation

Colorado sells more nonresident elk licenses than all seven western states combined. No State treats residents hunters worse than Colorado.

publiclandjurisdiction.com

If they’ll increase tag $ by raising prices, that gap is easy to fill. There’s nothing in Western big game hunting trends that shows that tag prices can’t absorb significant increases. The tag is rarely the most expensive part of a western game hunt for NRs. Guys roll in 80k trucks, 80k campers, 3k guns, 10k optics.. not saying it’s fair or whatever, but tag prices will go up to make up the shortfall.

 

[cnelk]

Everyone better get used to OTC not being part of the future CPW landscape.

It’s a coming. Little by little every year.

And long overdue

 

[Beendare]

@marvinwa2, finally someone spelling it out by the numbers.

Residents want the 7x non res $$$$, but they don’t want to give them the tags.

The old; “Let them eat Cake” philosophy… and we all know how that worked out.

 

[UncleBone]

Us residents really don't care about the NR $. Cpw spends a ton of money on nonsense and was over $50 milllion in the black last year. I think they can figure out how to budget with $20 million less.

 

[11boo]

I don’t have a crystal ball, but I can accurately predict big changes in 2025.

CPW presented an initial list of topics for discussion to the Commission at the January 18 Commission meeting, and requested guidance from the Commission to move forward with these proposed topics for public and stakeholder engagement. See the full memo sent to the Commission.


BGSS topics being considered include:

• Alternatives regarding over-the-counter archery and rifle elk licenses
• Alternatives for rifle season date structures for deer and elk
• Adding rifle deer opportunities to the first regular rifle season
• Adding a second regular rifle buck and doe pronghorn season
• Early season (archery and muzzleloader) date structures
• Current weighted-point draw system for bighorn sheep, mountain goat and moose

The Commission approved including all staff-recommended primary and administrative topics in the 2025-2029 BGSS process. (Updated 3/16/2023)

I really hope it just goes to all draw, weighted to resident. We have been the last call whore for too long.

Everyone better get used to OTC not being part of the future CPW landscape.

It’s a coming. Little by little every year.

And long overdue

 

[sndmn11]

I've never heard CPW mid level or higher folks talk about money in any sense other than struggling to spend all that is required AND the wasted time that goes into doing so.

 

[cnelk]

Residents want the 7x non res $$$$, but they don’t want to give them the tags.

The residents don’t want the $$$$. The CPW does.

It’s been stated many times that Residents would be willing to pay 2x or 3x the current Res price for elk tags.

(Only if there was better quality hunting)

 

[yak]

NR will lose opportunity to draw tags, be a bit harder with new ratio limitations.

Remember the percent ratios 65/35 and 75/25 are designated as UP TO.
In other words, not guaranteed tags to NR in that 35% or new 25% ratios. Limits place that non-residents cannot draw more tags than the respective percent assigned.
Checking actual CO draw results, in some units' residents are at 70/30, 75/25 already or close to it.

My good hunting friend Paul/Grand Junction and I had many discussions over NR limitations sitting next to our campfire at OTC elk camp. Yes, the very crowded unit 62. He claims CO residents want equity, more draw tags numbers and reduce OTC for NR to draw only within the set draw ratios or eliminate OTC NR altogether.
Yet keep OTC resident as is, non-restricted.

CO residents are missing the bigger $$$ picture...let's just focus on the 2021 CO** published numbers for elk license statistics. As the elk category will make the largest impact to, yes, REVENUE for the state of CO.

Elk licenses listed below include basic hunt license, Habitat Stamp, elk tag, elk app for draw.
Resident/R $130, Non-Resident/NR $934, NR 7x more overall or 87% higher than R.
Getting to the bottom line:
2021 elk sales revenue, including OTC : R $16.8M, NR $67.2M
75/25% adjusted numbers of the ratio : R $17.1M, NR $46.9M
The NR variance represents SHORTFALL of $20.3 MILLION DOLLARS!
Based on CO 2021 elk license draw & sale reports; How does CPW make up a loss of $20+M to their budget? Especially as operational costs will continue to increase within the department.

If I understand correctly, Most of Colorado Parks & Wildlife budget is determined sale of various licenses, permits, passes etc.
"Colorado Parks and Wildlife relies primarily on license sales, state park fees, and registration fees to support its operations and mission to perpetuate the wildlife resources of the state, to provide a quality state parks system, and to provide enjoyable and sustainable outdoor recreation opportunities that educate ..."

CO Resident hunters shouldn't have to scratch their heads and wonder what's coming for them down the pipeline. Need more concern about future opportunity & costs, rather than if it's easier for residents or more difficult for non-residents to draw tags.
Money is Money, period. Shortfalls in the business world are always made up, one way or the other.

Snap, Crackle, Pop; "Well Paul, I guess some future years you will have to hunt OTC by yourself...as I might not draw."

**

Colorado Sells More Nonresident Elk Tags than all Seven Western States Combined - Jurisdiction on Federally Owned Public Lands Colorado Hunting and Tag Allocation

Colorado sells more nonresident elk licenses than all seven western states combined. No State treats residents hunters worse than Colorado.

publiclandjurisdiction.com

Very good points. You also need to keep in mind, the governor's office is packed with folks that don't think logically and are appointing commissioners that think similarly. Imagine CA politicians managing the CO state budget.

NR hunting is not going away, but opportunity will be more scarce in the future. The writing is on the wall for OTC, period. Many of us residents are fighting to ensure our children can still have the OTC opportunities that I currently have.

Another point to consider. Its not too difficult to balance a budget if you know how many tags are available. If NR tag numbers decrease, then increase the price of a NR tag to make up the difference. Supply and demand just like we're seeing in WY right now.

 

[Jethro]

Dont forget that a percentage of Landowner tags are pulled from the public license quota - typically the Resident quota, not the NonRes quota

So in actuality, the 75% encompasses LO tags too, Non Res get a full 25%.

Landowner tags also cut into the NR 25, not just the Res 75.

 

[Archer86]

Everyone better get used to OTC not being part of the future CPW landscape.

It’s a coming. Little by little every year.

And long overdue

It's way over due!

they need to take care of the residents first, nr entitlement Because we pay so much of the bill is getting old they can make the money up in many different ways. Nr should be happy also should make the hunting better

 

[npm352]

The residents don’t want the $$$$. The CPW does.

It’s been stated many times that Residents would be willing to pay 2x or 3x the current Res price for elk tags.

(Only if there was better quality hunting)

If they propose to raise the price of a resident elk tag by $5, the old timers will spend $30 on gas to show up to a commission meeting to protest it.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

they need to take care of the residents first,

3x the number of tags at 1/10th the cost sure seems like taking care of residents first to me.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Sounds like lots of folks are going to stay home and hunt their own states. Next year, Colorado should be less crowded based on the banter here.

 

[ShakeDown]

I live in CO and hunt my birth state of NM as often as possible.


Also I’d pay 10x the R cost to hunt a quality tag in CO.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Dont forget that a percentage of Landowner tags are pulled from the public license quota - typically the Resident quota, not the NonRes quota

So in actuality, the 75% encompasses LO tags too, Non Res get a full 25%.

This is incredibly frustrating…. I’m all for LO tags, but it should come from a completely separate quota, and much of it should be if said animals actually spend time on your land

 

[Shō[t]gun]

Also I’d pay 10x the R cost to hunt a quality tag in CO.

Which would still be $150 short of a standard NR tag!

 

[35WhelenAI]

Colorado has 280,000 elk approximately. They sell 72,000 NR tags a year. The rest of the western states have 742,000 elk, they sell 67,000 NR tags a year total between them.

How about putting other states under the microscope with respect to why NR tags are in such lower quantities? I'm not going to research the pricing, but I don't think they are any more favorable in cost compared to Colorado and are not available the day a hunter crosses the state line coming to hunt.

It gets old fast that Co is somehow unfair to out of state hunters by changing regs to be more favorable to residents. Colorado is allocating 25% to NR when only one other western state (NM, 34% and 1/3 the number of elk as CO) is above 15% NR allocation. The numbers don't lie. Many tens of thousands of folks take full advantage of Colorado's generosity and then some complain about it.

Current situation with rounded #'s: 130,000 resident elk tags @ $70 each. $9,100,000
72,000 NR elk tags @ $800 each. $57,600,000
$66.7 million total

Scenario: 130,000 resident elk tags @ $150 each. $19,500,000
50,000 NR elk tags @ $950 each. 45,000,000
$64.5 million total.

Doesn't seem too far-fetched to take 22,000 people (11%) out of the woods each fall. When (if) residents don't want to pay more for a hunting license, non-residents can pick up the difference in leftover tags. As long as the numbers of hunters stay the same for comparison's sake, it takes 22,000 people out of the woods.

Keep in mind, almost 45,000 of those NR tags are already OTC. Losing 10% of 27,000 draw tags is 2,700 tags. Seems like a lot when you're one of the 2,700 but in the grand scheme, it isn't much.

 

[ShakeDown]

Which would still be $150 short of a standard NR tag!

So? I’m a resident and pay resident taxes all year. How much do you pay for a tag in your home state? Miss the point much?

 

[Shō[t]gun]

So? I’m a resident and pay resident taxes all year. How much do you pay for a tag in your home state? Miss the point much?

Everyone’s so touchy lately! I stated a number that I thought was entertaining, without stating any opinion.