How to end NR Wyoming wilderness ban?

[Dos Perros]

Not true. it's enforced quite heavily. People might get away with it until they don't.

What's your threshold for quite heavily? They only write about 1 ticket a year and the vast majority are settled for $150.

 

[CrescentB]

I would think there could be tax ramifications that could be levied against the state for access banning. Force the outfits to make up the difference.....not that it matters those are bottomless pockets.

I don't care for much of the outfitter industry, but I saw this with deep experience having both guided for wilderness camps and had family who were in the business as owners,,,the pockets for these organizations are not deep. In most cases for Wyoming outfitters operating on public lands, and certainly for outfitters operating in wilderness areas, after you pay taxes, payroll, contingent / non contingent expenses, overhead, livestock feed, etc,,,you then pay the department of the interior for using the land for commercial activities. NOBODY is banning access. You are allowed to be there from JAN - DEC at your choosing. You just cannot posses a hunting license and actively be engaged in the activity of hunting for your own gain for any species in the duration of your time spent inside a USFS wilderness zone.

 

[CrescentB]

What's your threshold for quite heavily? They only write about 1 ticket a year and the vast majority are settled for $150.

I'll give an example without naming names or areas. a simple internet search can do the rest. 2023 elk season a resident was "accompanying" a NR hunter in a wilderness unit. He was discovered by the Game and Fish and charged with unlawful hunting without a permitted guide. The resident member who possessed a resident elk license at the is going to trial in February for guiding a non resident for pay (coyoting as we call it), while the hunter was fined north of $12K and in violation of the lacy act. Id say that's a lot worse than $150 bucks and damn sure well deserved.

 

[Dos Perros]

I'll give an example without naming names or areas. a simple internet search can do the rest. 2023 elk season a resident was "accompanying" a NR hunter in a wilderness unit. He was discovered by the Game and Fish and charged with unlawful hunting without a permitted guide. The resident member who possessed a resident elk license at the is going to trial in February for guiding a non resident for pay (coyoting as we call it), while the hunter was fined north of $12K and in violation of the lacy act. Id say that's a lot worse than $150 bucks and damn sure well deserved.

That sounds like illegal guiding to me.

The historical record stands for itself though. WY doesn't enforce this rule with much vigor at all.

 

[CrescentB]

I'm kinda surprised there isn't Wyoming residents posting WTS Friendship for a week threads. If you already had a hunt planned in a wilderness area then you could make a little extra dough. Just tell them you're not packing anything out for them.

Illegal. Most people approach that subject with "they gotta catch me first", but those kind of violations follow with the Lacey Act.

 

[CrescentB]

That sounds like illegal guiding to me.

The historical record stands for itself though. WY doesn't enforce this rule with much vigor at all.

It most certainly was illegal guiding, but a fine as well to the NR hunter. That's looked at as requiring due diligence prior to (1) paying for services, and/or (2) obtaining a resident guide.resident guides are not allowed to be paid, compensated, or given gratuities for accompanying no more that 2 NR hunters per year.

 

[Dos Perros]

It most certainly was illegal guiding, but a fine as well to the NR hunter. That's looked at as requiring due diligence prior to (1) paying for services, and/or (2) obtaining a resident guide.resident guides are not allowed to be paid, compensated, or given gratuities for accompanying no more that 2 NR hunters per year.

Yup. One time in a McDonald's drive through in Wyoming a resident cowboy struck up a conversation with us. It was clear he was offering to take us on an illegally outfitted hunt in a unit for which we did not have tags and he had no license. I would expect harsh enforcement for something like this. In retrospect part of me wonders if this was a sting operation. We still talk about ole Randy from time to time.

 

[ClearCreek]

Yup. One time in a McDonald's drive through in Wyoming a resident cowboy struck up a conversation with us. It was clear he was offering to take us on an illegally outfitted hunt in a unit for which we did not have tags and he had no license. I would expect harsh enforcement for something like this. In retrospect part of me wonders if this was a sting operation. We still talk about ole Randy from time to time.

Probably not a sting operation.

In the town where I live in northcentral WY, I have known two or three people over the years that were just "hunting with good friends" on deer and antelope hunts. Oddly, when asked what their "good friends" last name was they did not know.

One of these "guides" got busted because the hunter (who I thnik was clueless) went to the game warden and complained he was not getting the services he was promised. The other guy (guide) died before he got caught.


ClearCreek

 

[Wyoming300]

Op you have pretty stupid reasoning there. We live in wyoming to hunt our $47 elk tags in our wilderness area. Im not driving 8 hours to pay a fortune for tags to hunt in a more populated area.

The law is an excellent one. Ive seen all sorts of nonsense from out of state hunters. Between driving across private ranches to getting lost in an area that is no where near a wilderness area. The issue with wilderness areas is deeper than lack of roads. They are steep rugged, and have constantly changing bad weather. Last weekend i was hunting near the savage run wilderness area. 54 degrees at 10 am. 2 pm it started sleeting. By 4 pm it was 29 degrees with sleet, hail, and wet snow. Then fog added to the mix. Continued for 2 days then back to 50 degrees and sunny.

 

[Backyard]

Op you have pretty stupid reasoning there. We live in wyoming to hunt our $47 elk tags in our wilderness area. Im not driving 8 hours to pay a fortune for tags to hunt in a more populated area.

The law is an excellent one. Ive seen all sorts of nonsense from out of state hunters. Between driving across private ranches to getting lost in an area that is no where near a wilderness area. The issue with wilderness areas is deeper than lack of roads. They are steep rugged, and have constantly changing bad weather. Last weekend i was hunting near the savage run wilderness area. 54 degrees at 10 am. 2 pm it started sleeting. By 4 pm it was 29 degrees with sleet, hail, and wet snow. Then fog added to the mix. Continued for 2 days then back to 50 degrees and sunny.

So wilderness areas are determined and layed out by the Forest Service by the unusually harsh terrain and their own unique climate? I had no idea…


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[UpNorth89]

The issue with wilderness areas is deeper than lack of roads. They are steep rugged, and have constantly changing bad weather. Last weekend i was hunting near the savage run wilderness area. 54 degrees at 10 am. 2 pm it started sleeting. By 4 pm it was 29 degrees with sleet, hail, and wet snow. Then fog added to the mix. Continued for 2 days then back to 50 degrees and sunny.

If that was the real reasoning behind the NR wilderness rule NR wouldn't be allowed to fish, hunt small game, or hike without a guide either. It's simply outfitter welfare.

 

[Backyard]

You start out by telling the OP his reasoning is stupid but you revive a year old thread to say it’s a good law because the weather can be bad? Ok.

Huh?


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[Macintosh]

Op you have pretty stupid reasoning there. We live in wyoming to hunt our $47 elk tags in our wilderness area. Im not driving 8 hours to pay a fortune for tags to hunt in a more populated area.

The law is an excellent one. Ive seen all sorts of nonsense from out of state hunters. Between driving across private ranches to getting lost in an area that is no where near a wilderness area. The issue with wilderness areas is deeper than lack of roads. They are steep rugged, and have constantly changing bad weather. Last weekend i was hunting near the savage run wilderness area. 54 degrees at 10 am. 2 pm it started sleeting. By 4 pm it was 29 degrees with sleet, hail, and wet snow. Then fog added to the mix. Continued for 2 days then back to 50 degrees and sunny.

This is horse hooey, not an inch more. Sure, mountains have mountain weather. That is not unique to wyoming. If you’re going to adopt “nanny state” justification for a law to keep the poor uneducated and inexperienced non-residents from hurting themselves, maybe california or massachussetts would be a more appropriate state for you? (but only while hunting, its ok if theyre fishing, hiking, backpacking, biking, climbing, skiing, etc…because those activities are so much safer in wilderness ),

 

[Zzyzx]

Reciprocity should not stop at WY wilderness ban. It should apply across the board.

SD gives 0% of elk/sheep/goat tags to NRs, so they should get 0% of elk/sheep/goat tags from other states.

CA gives one elk tag to NRs, so they should collectively share one elk tag from all other states (combined).

Alaskans who hunt in lower 48 should have to hire guides for several key species.

The BS stops when states like WY are reciprocated against.

 

[UpNorth89]

The law is an excellent one. Ive seen all sorts of nonsense from out of state hunters. Between driving across private ranches to getting lost in an area that is no where near a wilderness area.

This statement can't be limited to just NR. Some residents are also guilty of these things.

 

[Wrench]

Op you have pretty stupid reasoning there. We live in wyoming to hunt our $47 elk tags in our wilderness area. Im not driving 8 hours to pay a fortune for tags to hunt in a more populated area.

The law is an excellent one. Ive seen all sorts of nonsense from out of state hunters. Between driving across private ranches to getting lost in an area that is no where near a wilderness area. The issue with wilderness areas is deeper than lack of roads. They are steep rugged, and have constantly changing bad weather. Last weekend i was hunting near the savage run wilderness area. 54 degrees at 10 am. 2 pm it started sleeting. By 4 pm it was 29 degrees with sleet, hail, and wet snow. Then fog added to the mix. Continued for 2 days then back to 50 degrees and sunny.

Enjoy my tax dollars brother.

It's silly that I can come and hunt with a camera in "your wilderness area" but not hunt.

As for harsh, the Bob, Frank and most others will kill you just as fast and are just as relentless.

I'm in the outfitters welfare camp too.

 

[Flyjunky]

Huh?


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Sorry, I hit reply on the wrong post. Corrected.

 

[Flyjunky]

Op you have pretty stupid reasoning there. We live in wyoming to hunt our $47 elk tags in our wilderness area. Im not driving 8 hours to pay a fortune for tags to hunt in a more populated area.

The law is an excellent one. Ive seen all sorts of nonsense from out of state hunters. Between driving across private ranches to getting lost in an area that is no where near a wilderness area. The issue with wilderness areas is deeper than lack of roads. They are steep rugged, and have constantly changing bad weather. Last weekend i was hunting near the savage run wilderness area. 54 degrees at 10 am. 2 pm it started sleeting. By 4 pm it was 29 degrees with sleet, hail, and wet snow. Then fog added to the mix. Continued for 2 days then back to 50 degrees and sunny.

You start out by telling the OP his reasoning is stupid but you revive a year old thread to say it’s a good law because the weather can be bad? Ok.

 

[scottbot]

SD gives 0% of elk/sheep/goat tags to NRs, so they should get 0% of elk/sheep/goat tags from other states.

This is an uneducated statement.

Their is no goat hunting season in South Dakota since 2023.

The elk population in SD is around 7,000. It takes most residents 20+ years in PrefPoints to draw. It would be a 1 in 25,000 draw tag if they were to implement a season for NR, have fun trying to draw that and wasting your money.

South Dakota gives out 8 sheep tags to resident hunters in South Dakota with PP being in the 30s, it’s a lottery tag. It would be a 1 in 100,000 draw for NR.

 

[Poser]

. The issue with wilderness areas is deeper than lack of roads. They are steep rugged, and have constantly changing bad weather. Last weekend i was hunting near the savage run wilderness area. 54 degrees at 10 am. 2 pm it started sleeting. By 4 pm it was 29 degrees with sleet, hail, and wet snow. Then fog added to the mix. Continued for 2 days then back to 50 degrees and sunny.

I love this argument so much. Its as if no other wilderness areas in the West are steep, rugged and experience wild weather swings. Its also hilarious that you can go backcountry skiing and climbing in Wyoming wilderness areas, literally the most dangerous backcountry pursuit there are, without a guide.