How much money after everything is paid for?

[MuleyFever]

There are plenty of frugal couples out there making $200k/yr pre-tax, living off $60k/yr, and saving $10k/mo. It's extremely common in the FIRE (Financial Independence Retire Early) groups and honestly doesn't even feel like extreme budgeting like the example I laid out above.

That seems like it would be fairly hard on that salary. If you had no pretax deductions for health insurance or retirement you are only taking home about 12k/mo. After maxing out your 401k, HSA, and deductions for health insurance you are at about 9k/mo after taxes.

 

[mlevimadden]

That seems like it would be fairly hard on that salary. If you had no pretax deductions for health insurance or retirement you are only taking home about 12k/mo. After maxing out your 401k, HSA, and deductions for health insurance you are at about 9k/mo after taxes.

Any couple saving that much should be maxing out 401k and HSA as long as they aren’t super retirement heavy already to lower tax burden, so I was accounting for that even though I didn’t spell it out in my post. I included these retirement savings in the $10k/mo savings rate, as I don't see how it would be fair to leave them out when it would be $4k/mo worth of savings maxing out those accounts.

 

[mlevimadden]

Not skeptical at all. I believe the numbers on this thread. I am not saying that the incomes are INSANE. But they sure are not the norm. They are 3-4 times the average. So that is the main difference in my opinion. Call it envy, jealousy or whatever you want. But it's just facts, these incomes you guys are talking are not even close to most Americans.


My wife and I are raising 4 kids off of significantly less gross wage combined that what you guys are putting into savings.

Sorry, I hope my post didn't come off as judgmental or shaming people that aren't saving a bunch of money every month, as that was not my intent. I tried to disclaim my posts that it's way harder to save money with kids given the costs in our current economy (daycare/child care, groceries, etc.). I am feeling this myself currently, which was why I tried to disclaim in my first post that our savings rate as DINK's was very different than it is now.

I wouldn't call the FIRE community mainstream Americans either, so we are aligned there. I would liken it to comparing Roksliders to your average hunter. People in the FIRE community are extremely passionate about finance/wealth management and make other sacrifices in their lives to pursue a goal. Just like some Roksliders may sacrifice their financial health for a sheep hunt they can't really afford.

I did a quick google search though to see how extreme my $200k/yr example was, and it looks like the latest data shows just over 12% of American households make at least $200k/yr. I can't tell from the articles if that is gross income or AGI, but maybe someone with better google skills than me can. That's obviously way off the average at 50%, but I was never trying to say that. It is also far away from the top 1%, and I would say 1 in 8 households is not an extreme outlier.

Financial health is just a subject I'm passionate about that the average American seems undereducated on, so I try to share information I have learned in hopes it helps someone else better their current situation like it did me a decade ago. My posts are trying to come from a place of challenging conventional American viewpoints to help people better their finances, rather than saying look how well I'm doing. I get that it's hard to get this across in text though, so hopefully this helps.

 

[cnelk]

A quick 'average salary' search result

Average salary in the U.S. in 2024

The highest average earners are aged between 35 and 44.

www.usatoday.com

 

[Doc Holliday]

I wasn’t including deductions in that number. That was total spending on expenses and housing. But just for fun I’ll shoot for your $1,800 number.

I am in Denver which definitely doesn’t qualify as a low-cost of living area. There are plenty of $800/mo listings on apartments.com for people subletting rooms. Call it $1k/mo with your share of utilities and renters insurance.

$300/mo or $75/week for groceries
$200/mo for gas and auto insurance (you could lower this living in a metro area using public transit or biking)
$100/mo for high-deductible health care plan mainly paid by your employer, vision, and dental

That’s $1600/mo for what I would call basic survival needs. So you’d still have another $200/mo leftover to save up for a trip, hunting gear, or go out to a restaurant once a week.

$75/week for groceries comes out to $10.71 per day to eat/drink.

Curious, what does a $10.71 daily menu look like? If you were living in some mud hut in Africa I'm sure that would buy plenty, but I don't see how that is realistic in the United States in 2024.

 

[mlevimadden]

$75/week for groceries comes out to $10.71 per day to eat/drink.

Curious, what does a $10.71 daily menu look like? If you were living in some mud hut in Africa I'm sure that would buy plenty, but I don't see how that is realistic in the United States in 2024.

What is your personal share of your current monthly grocery bill if you feel comfortable sharing?

I just went back and for the last 4 full months (had a 3 wk vacation in April that skews the budget low), my family of 3 averaged $551/mo. My example you quoted was for a single guy, so my personal share of our current grocery budget is accurate to the $300/mo, and we haven't been consciously trying to lower our grocery bill during that time.

I might not be making meals to the same quality as the "mud hut" meals Tanya has been sharing on their Africa thread, but we definitely aren't anywhere near a rice-and-beans diet.

 

[Doc Holliday]

What is your personal share of your current monthly grocery bill if you feel comfortable sharing?

I just went back and for the last 4 full months (had a 3 wk vacation in April that skews the budget low), my family of 3 averaged $551/mo. My example you quoted was for a single guy, so my personal share of our current grocery budget is accurate to the $300/mo, and we haven't been consciously trying to lower our grocery bill during that time.

I might not be making meals to the same quality as the "mud hut" meals Tanya has been sharing on their Africa thread, but we definitely aren't anywhere near a rice-and-beans diet.

I'll ask again, can you show me what a $10.71 day looks like?

Breakfast: What are we having?

Lunch: What are we having?

Dinner: What are we having?

Snacks: What are we having?

Assuming we are only drinking water.

 

[maxx075]

I'll ask again, can you show me what a $10.71 day looks like?

Breakfast: What are we having?

Lunch: What are we having?

Dinner: What are we having?

Snacks: What are we having?

Assuming we are only drinking water.

Ramen is 30¢/pack at Walmart

 

[Crow Hunter TN]

Being this is the internet, no one knows if I am being truthful or not but....

Out of curiosity, I checked our bank statements.

Between 6/5/24 and 9/5/24 my wife and I saved $23,856/month beyond our HSA and 401k contributions (maxed out). Everything we don't spend during the month using our cash back credit cards we put into a brokerage account.

We are DINKs (not by choice). Live extremely frugally, have paid for vehicles/home and live in a very LCOL.

My wife is an executive and I am an engineering manager (and trophy husband) .

Again, this is the internet, so take that for what it is worth.

 

[cnelk]

I'll ask again, can you show me what a $10.71 day looks like?

Breakfast: What are we having?

Lunch: What are we having?

Dinner: What are we having?

Snacks: What are we having?

Assuming we are only drinking water.

At $10.71 a day I don’t think there’s a ‘we’.

I can get on board with that budget.
Live by myself, have a budget.

Menu would be juice coffee and toast for breakfast.

Lunch looks like this lately - egg (from my chickens) cucumber from garden, and venison steak.




Supper would be baked trout and a side dish, or meatloaf made from wild game.

It’s doable.

 

[mlevimadden]

I'll ask again, can you show me what a $10.71 day looks like?

Breakfast: What are we having?

Lunch: What are we having?

Dinner: What are we having?

Snacks: What are we having?

Assuming we are only drinking water.

Breakfast: I'll usually make eggs, pronghorn breakfast sausage, and pancakes (or biscuits to go with sausage gravy) on the weekend that lasts us through Tuesday or Wednesday. During the week it's yogurt with granola and fruit and maybe a hard-boiled egg if I'm headed out the door quick. Half the time, I'm working from home, and those days it's usually 2-3 scrambled eggs on a toasted bagel w/ cream cheese.

Lunch: I never cook lunch, so it's always leftovers from dinner.

Dinner: This meal varies the most for us by far, some staples that seem to get cooked every couple weeks are spaghetti with mule deer meatballs and one green veggie (broccoli or asparagus usually), some asian style wild game meatballs with roasted veggies over steamed rice. We do more grilled cheeseburgers (with a veggie and pasta side) and steak kabobs grilled in the summer months when the weather is nice, more roasts/stews/shredded meat type dishes in the winter months. We throw in a mexican dish every couple weeks too either fajitas, tacos, or smothered enchiladas.

Snacks: I need to cut back more in this area but it's tough right now with a toddler, so I promise my family is on the extreme side of snacks available right now. Cereal, goldfish, granola bars, string cheese, yogurt cups, fruit pouches, enough berries and fruit to feed a small army are always stocked in our pantry and fridge right now.

Drinking: Correct, we drink no sodas, but occasionally buy juice for the aforementioned toddler, along with a ridiculous amount of milk. We do have a $30/mo bougie coffee subscription that didn't look like it fell into my grocery spending, but that doesn't move the needle much.

I really thought I was being fairly generous with a monthly grocery bill of $300/pp, so I'm surprised this one is drawing scrutiny. It's not a budget where you'll be eating a 20 oz grass-fed bison ribeye three times a day, but I don't think that's fair as an average example either. For a family of 4 that is a $1200/mo grocery budget which seems like it would cover the hungriest teenagers I know.

Like @maxx075 posted above, buying bulk ramen or rice and beans could cut this down to like $2/day in a real survival-budget scenario.

 

[DangerRanger]

I look at our monthly budget and wonder why we only have about 20% left for savings at the end of every month, then I realize that we are giving away 12%(church and some other charity), paying an extra $350 on our mortgage(trying to pay it off a few years faster but no way I refinance to a 15 yr at the current rates) and I realize groceries have nearly doubled in the past 4 years.

The real kicker has been childcare, I looked back to 2019 when my wife and I were paying for 3 kids in daycare/preschool and it was $910/mo, this year we had 1 in preschool and it was $630/mo. I was so thankful we finally got to send our 3rd child to kindergarten this year, but alas we had an opportunity to adopt a 4th child, so right back to daycare we go in November.


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630?! Mine are 1500 each

 

[Steve300xcw]

$75/week for groceries comes out to $10.71 per day to eat/drink.

Curious, what does a $10.71 daily menu look like? If you were living in some mud hut in Africa I'm sure that would buy plenty, but I don't see how that is realistic in the United States in 2024.

For a single guy thats pretty doable, if you keep an eye on what you are buying.

I average around $100-$120 week at the store, that includes one case of beer. Could cut things down to $75 without much effort. I'm not much of a steak guy. But buy a lot of burger, chicken, pork, pretty much whatever is on sale. Toss in your rice,beans, eggs, potatoes and veggies. Its not that hard

 

[mlevimadden]

Being this is the internet, no one knows if I am being truthful or not but....

Out of curiosity, I checked our bank statements.

Between 6/5/24 and 9/5/24 my wife and I saved $23,856/month beyond our HSA and 401k contributions (maxed out). Everything we don't spend during the month using our cash back credit cards we put into a brokerage account.

We are DINKs (not by choice). Live extremely frugally, have paid for vehicles/home and live in a very LCOL.

My wife is an executive and I am an engineering manager (and trophy husband) .

Again, this is the internet, so take that for what it is worth.

Those are some seriously impressive numbers, congrats to you and your spouse, as I'm sure there was a lot of hard work, good choices, and temporary sacrifices that went into making those number at this point in your life.

Also, sorry you guys are DINK's against your will as that is truly some generational wealth you guys are accumulating at that rate.

Looks like you might need to have a conversation with the wife about being a full-time trophy husband if the engineering manager gig turns into a grind.

 

[KsRancher]

630?! Mine are 1500 each

We pay $690 month for an 18month old

 

[realunlucky]

For a single guy thats pretty doable, if you keep an eye on what you are buying.

I average around $100-$120 week at the store, that includes one case of beer. Could cut things down to $75 without much effort. I'm not much of a steak guy. But buy a lot of burger, chicken, pork, pretty much whatever is on sale. Toss in your rice,beans, eggs, potatoes and veggies. Its not that hard

I budget 450 every two weeks for a family of 5. My wife is consistently telling me 900 a month for food is simply not enough

I keep telling her our food budget is ridiculously high.

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[mlevimadden]

I budget 450 every two weeks for a family of 5. My wife is consistently telling me 900 a month for food is simply not enough

I keep telling her our food budget is ridiculously high.

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If you haven't been doing much of the grocery shopping for your family the last two years, it has gone absolutely insane. The grocery bill for my family has gone up 1.5-2x compared to three years ago without changing how we shop or what we are buying for the most part. I feel like 6 months ago, it was closer to 2x, and prices seem to be coming back down a little bit closer to the 1.5x mark.

 

[DangerRanger]

We pay $690 month for an 18month old

man. Huge difference in location for childcare It seems, that’s a huge part of my monthly budget. Each kid is as much as my mortgage


Just checked my grocery order on Walmart from 2020 to now and a 36% increase today for the exact same items. It’s a lot, but in reality it’s less than I thought it would be. I’m swing that it seems like junk food/treats has gone up more than basic Whole Foods but that may be anecdotal.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Not skeptical at all. I believe the numbers on this thread. I am not saying that the incomes are INSANE. But they sure are not the norm. They are 3-4 times the average. So that is the main difference in my opinion. Call it envy, jealousy or whatever you want. But it's just facts, these incomes you guys are talking are not even close to most Americans.


My wife and I are raising 4 kids off of significantly less gross wage combined that what you guys are putting into savings.

200k for a household doesn't seem that high to me. In my example, It took me nearly 20 years in my "career" field and a masters degree to make 80k/year. As far as comparing ourselves to others, I constantly wonder how much I'd be earning in another career field after 20 years and a masters degree. I'd imagine any engineer or something would be making closer to 120k/year with that amount of time and education. Get 2 engineers or other professionals together and that 200k amount docent seem high.

I was just looking the other day and saw truck drivers with CDLs making more than me, heck at the hospital in my town, I don't believe anybody there is making less than 50-60k to start as in entry level work in rural Alaska.

Now if we're talking about non skilled, jobs that just don't pay great, yeah, not many households are going to have a factory worker and a librarian (not that there's anything wrong with those jobs) bringing in 200k + per year.

 

[Steve300xcw]

I budget 450 every two weeks for a family of 5. My wife is consistently telling me 900 a month for food is simply not enough

I keep telling her our food budget is ridiculously high.

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Food got spendy. $900/month to feed a family of 5 is impressive.

I learned the other day that I can buy better burger for $1/lb cheaper by getting it outta the freezer aisle than the meat section.