How high @ 100 for 140gr 6.5cm for best POI

[WoolyBugger]

We guided pronghorn, muledeer, aoudad, Carmen mountain whitetail
Since 1993 , and as a outfitter I hated when the hunter started talking about dials, 1st day every hunter had to hit a paper plate @ 250 meters with no dialing and put the caps on
So yeah lots of experienced guides don’t like exposed turrets for many reasons

They also recommend 7mm or 30 cal rifles. So they would really hate me showing up with my 6.5cm talking this mils jargon and dialing 2mils for 400 yards instead of remember how many inches of drop I have..

 

[S-3 ranch]

They also recommend 7mm or 30 cal rifles. So they would really hate me showing up with my 6.5cm talking this mils jargon and dialing 2mils for 400 yards instead of remember how many inches of drop I have..

7mm what ? Wonder how they would feel if a 7x57 showed up over a prc or stw ?
Muley cals imo are 6mm , 257, 264 , 277 , 280 @ +/- 3000 FPS
I had a guide that insisted I shoot nosler partition and 300wm on a elk hunt
I brought the 300 but with federal power shok 180gr , some guides have to over compensate for a hunters incompetence

 

[WoolyBugger]

7mm what ? Wonder how they would feel if a 7x57 showed up over a prc or stw ?
Muley cals imo are 6mm , 257, 264 , 277 , 280 @ +/- 3000 FPS
I had a guide that insisted I shoot nosler partition and 300wm on a elk hunt
I brought the 300 but with federal power shok 180gr , some guides have to over compensate for a hunters incompetence

Sorry, calibers are discussed ad nauseam here and it’s my fault for bringing back up on this thread too.

100 yard zero with a turret and reticle with good subtensions makes more sense in my head and I don’t think I would let a guide talk me out of it. Just found it interesting that your method seems to be the go to for guide recommendations when they have to over compensate for a hunters incompetence, along with a bigger gun.

 

[grfox92]

Sorry, calibers are discussed ad nauseam here and it’s my fault for bringing back up on this thread too.

100 yard zero with a turret and reticle with good subtensions makes more sense in my head and I don’t think I would let a guide talk me out of it. Just found it interesting that your method seems to be the go to for guide recommendations when they have to over compensate for a hunters incompetence, along with a bigger gun.

After starting to shoot long range the last few weeks I tend to agree. I think a lot of guys are intimidated my dialing if they have never done it, but it's stupid easy.

Many recommend the 6x SWFA. Ive never shot one but have a fixed 10x and not sure i see the need to even try the 6x. Im hitting steal from 100 ro 910 yards.

Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk

 

[Macintosh]

I'm going to bookmark this thread so I can use it as an example of how stupid it is to make a conscious choice to not use MILs.

All these suggestions and convoluted voodoo just to try to use inches and avoid learning MILs. Newsflash; there's not a yardstick on animals. How are you judging what an inch is at 300 yards?n

What human with a functioning brain thinks "zero at 227 yards and just remember that you're 4.2 inches high at 133 and 3.9 inches low at 300" is easier than "200=0.5, 300=1, 400=2"

It's not near as complicated as you make it out to be. No one is counting inches here. In practical use it means anything 300 yds and less there is nothing to be done, just point and shoot--depending on the range there is some built in error above or below point of aim, the assumption is that inside a certain distance that error is irrelevant with a critter-sized target. Here in the east where virtually zero shots are ever past 250-300 yards you'd be laughed out of the fish and game club playing with a dialing scope for deer hunting, this is as normal as normal can be. Past true "point blank" range, there is a very limited amount to remember, ie 300-350 hold 2/3 of the way up the body, 350-400 hold on the top edge of the body, or something like that. It works extremly well for shooting 250 yards and in, especially with a flat-shooting cartridge like a 270. This method is literally the entire reason why "flat shooting" is a thing. Using it at longer ranges (300+) it's not my preference as error-stacking is a thing, but for someone mainly hunting with one gun where 95% of shots are inside 300 yards and truly none are ever past 400, and who has an existing regimen of practicing, it's undeniably simple and its been working for decades. Obviously it doesnt have to be that way, and if you're proficient with a dialing scope it can be fast and more precise...but the dude's been doing it this way since before most people here were alive and was very clear he had no intention of dialing, and I have better things to do than fight over this if it works for him.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

I'm going to bookmark this thread so I can use it as an example of how stupid it is to make a conscious choice to not use MILs.

All these suggestions and convoluted voodoo just to try to use inches and avoid learning MILs. Newsflash; there's not a yardstick on animals. How are you judging what an inch is at 300 yards?

What human with a functioning brain thinks "zero at 227 yards and just remember that you're 4.2 inches high at 133 and 3.9 inches low at 300" is easier than "200=0.5, 300=1, 400=2"

our brains are wired spatially and visually, and many shooters and hunters are trades related and very comfortable in seeing inches of size of things at any distance, I'm calling slot fish within a cm on the lakes every weekend before they hit the net lol, your brain already knows the size of the animals and terrain features, bushes etc. subconsciously, making hits with a rangefinder and using inches of hold is easy as fack, if you haven't tried it or don't have a lifelong institution of a tape measure in hand then maybe you need all the aids, but there are many ways to skin the cat, and skin it very quickly...I'll take S-3 on filling tags over you in a heartbeat and he will have them filled before you even think to grab the rangefinder

 

[Stinky Coyote]

further to that he likely wants to know your zero when guiding and can quickly tell you where to hold on an animal so you don't have to think, I do that with my kids all the time, even when I don't have time for rangefinder, it happens quick, hold spine on this one kid, hold 6" over back....etc., you can guide almost anyone that way if you know where they are zero'd and what they are shooting, especially to 400-ish, dealing with a 2' drop is no big thing, barely off fur (with mpbr-ish zero)

 

[alexnelon]

I'm cracking up. Keep it coming, fellas.

We've already got "just zero at 275", "I know an inch at any distance", "the computer is confusing me", "flat shooting", and "we regularly shoot milk jugs at 400"

My bingo card is just missing "Nosler Partition," "Leupold," and "wallup."

 

[Macintosh]

Proof. ^^

 

[Stinky Coyote]

I'm cracking up. Keep it coming, fellas.

We've already got "just zero at 275", "I know an inch at any distance", "the computer is confusing me", "flat shooting", and "we regularly shoot milk jugs at 400"

My bingo card is just missing "Nosler Partition," "Leupold," and "wallup."

Lol same here, the consummate rokslider, center of universe haha. You forgot to insert fudd somewhere in there.

Sounds like you're not very intimate with your trajectory, work on that. You live in a world of inches and feet your entire life, combined with knowledge of how brain works 'spatially visually', yet don't see any means of utilizing that when shooting and rely solely on the references inside a scope or clicks on a turret and rangefinder and in languages/measures you don't use in any other part of life. News flash for you...the scene at the other end of what you're looking through is also a tape measure.

Does amaze me how narrowly focused some get with this stuff and rely solely on one system while ignoring how intimate you already are with other things from everyday life and how your brain works spatially and visually and then jump on someone thinking you've got all the answers lol. You don't. You're not intimate with your trajectory, should probably understand it in moa, mils and inches.

Two examples from just this forum alone of what relying on one thing only and not being fully intimate with your trajectory that I can recall just off top of my head quick here. One guy passed on an elk at 300 or 350 (I'm gonna mix these two ranges up with these two examples as one was 300 and one was 350) and sorry if I called anyone out here. 1st guy I believe in a blind but lost light and couldn't read his turret anymore so let the elk opportunity pass despite being able to easily make it out in scope. The other was a dad/daughter combo, same thing, elk, Dad couldn't remember where turret was and not confident he didn't dial up from 100 zero to mpbr-ish or not, didn't want to mess his daughter up so had her pass. I believe both running 100 yard zero's. Guys that understand their trajectory intimately and have an appropriate mpbr-ish zero these tags would have been folded instantly lol. Even the dad/daughter thing. They had the range. All you had to know was the drop in inches, quick move up on the one about 8" done, the other quick mention to daughter where to move up to and done, folded tag, not even off fur. You get hung up on your system missing the forest for the trees. The solutions are nice but if you haven't even solved or tried to understand the tape measure at the scene then you're gonna eat lots of tag soup. Solutions are largely for ideal.

Like 8" to 16"....that's nothing to see on an elk and move accordingly. Nothing. And beyond fast to see and shoot or tell someone to see and shoot. Like what are we doing out there? That's classic fafo bro. Don't get me wrong, people like to fafo, carry on. Those intimate with their trajectory will fold tags before the fa part of the fo even gets started. It's two games out there. I'd rather have NO solutions in a system and just know my drops in inches every 50 from mpbr to 450 and could do everything I'm gonna do out there even with backup solutions that are mostly there for backup ideal stuff or hung up coyotes. But if you can't adapt and apply your intimate knowledge of your trajectory to the scene then you are missing critical tools in the game. So get back up on your 17 hand rokslide mule and preach away how your system is the be all end all lol.

Enjoy your variable zero rifle systems usually set on the wrong zero to begin with. Couple decent threads not too far back about how many guys have been caught off rotation...then come back to how to remove all the variables from your system. Easy, be on proper zero and be capped or locked and know intimately your trajectory from there for the no think stuff which can easily be handled to 400. Then play the fafo game from there...but not until there.

 

[S-3 ranch]

our brains are wired spatially and visually, and many shooters and hunters are trades related and very comfortable in seeing inches of size of things at any distance, I'm calling slot fish within a cm on the lakes every weekend before they hit the net lol, your brain already knows the size of the animals and terrain features, bushes etc. subconsciously, making hits with a rangefinder and using inches of hold is easy as fack, if you haven't tried it or don't have a lifelong institution of a tape measure in hand then maybe you need all the aids, but there are many ways to skin the cat, and skin it very quickly...I'll take S-3 on filling tags over you in a heartbeat and he will have them filled before you even think to grab the rangefinder

Lots of truth to this a tradesman is usually a good shot no matter how much bench time he/she has
A true life story, we where muledeer hunting and we jumped a huge old buck
As everyone was dialing and ranging, one of my hunters ( a master plumber)
Stepped up and popped him DRT @ about 375 yards , fluke no as a couple years later, he was hunting with the same guys when I saw a 150+ whitetail
Same thing everyone ranging and dialing, he calmly loaded and whacked the buck DRT .
Jim doesn’t shoot much except when he is hunting which is once , twice every couple years.

And yes I am relatively unfamiliar with 6.5cm and was asking for advice about best POI without having to worry about a dial up
Imo knowing how much to expect a caliber to do @ 100-350 meters helps me personally and professionally

I love hunting with women and kids as they usually listen to advice and are mostly very successful at wacking game at different levels of distance ( because they don’t want to mess up or fool around with the dials )

 

[alexnelon]

You forgot to insert fudd somewhere in there.

Sounds like you're not very intimate with your trajectory, work on that. You live in a world of inches and feet your entire life, combined with knowledge of how brain works 'spatially visually', yet don't see any means of utilizing that when shooting and rely solely on the references inside a scope or clicks on a turret and rangefinder and in languages/measures you don't use in any other part of life. News flash for you...the scene at the other end of what you're looking through is also a tape measure.

Does amaze me how narrowly focused some get with this stuff and rely solely on one system while ignoring how intimate you already are with other things from everyday life and how your brain works spatially and visually and then jump on someone thinking you've got all the answers lol. You don't. You're not intimate with your trajectory, should probably understand it in moa, mils and inches.

Omitting that word was a choice, not an oversight. We all know who we're talking about here.

What amazes me is that you (and people close to your age, probably) assume that, since you don't understand angular geometry, that those of us who choose to use it must not know inches.

Problem with that is we know inches just as well as everyone else. We just know inches AND MILs. Most of us know MOA too. We can also eyeball distance just as well or better, young eyes and all that. But we don't even have to if we don't want because we have a ruler inside the scope.

Using MILs is just objectively better and faster in every way, in every situation. The only reason not to use it is if you can't understand it.