WoolyBugger
WKR
They also recommend 7mm or 30 cal rifles. So they would really hate me showing up with my 6.5cm talking this mils jargon and dialing 2mils for 400 yards instead of remember how many inches of drop I have..
How high @ 100 for 140gr 6.5cm for best POI
- Thread starter S-3 ranch
- Start date
OP
OP
S-3 ranch
WKR
7mm what ? Wonder how they would feel if a 7x57 showed up over a prc or stw ?
Muley cals imo are 6mm , 257, 264 , 277 , 280 @ +/- 3000 FPS
I had a guide that insisted I shoot nosler partition and 300wm on a elk hunt
I brought the 300 but with federal power shok 180gr , some guides have to over compensate for a hunters incompetence
WoolyBugger
WKR
Sorry, calibers are discussed ad nauseam here and it’s my fault for bringing back up on this thread too.
100 yard zero with a turret and reticle with good subtensions makes more sense in my head and I don’t think I would let a guide talk me out of it. Just found it interesting that your method seems to be the go to for guide recommendations when they have to over compensate for a hunters incompetence, along with a bigger gun.
After starting to shoot long range the last few weeks I tend to agree. I think a lot of guys are intimidated my dialing if they have never done it, but it's stupid easy.
Many recommend the 6x SWFA. Ive never shot one but have a fixed 10x and not sure i see the need to even try the 6x. Im hitting steal from 100 ro 910 yards.
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It's not near as complicated as you make it out to be. No one is counting inches here. In practical use it means anything 300 yds and less there is nothing to be done, just point and shoot--depending on the range there is some built in error above or below point of aim, the assumption is that inside a certain distance that error is irrelevant with a critter-sized target. Here in the east where virtually zero shots are ever past 250-300 yards you'd be laughed out of the fish and game club playing with a dialing scope for deer hunting, this is as normal as normal can be. Past true "point blank" range, there is a very limited amount to remember, ie 300-350 hold 2/3 of the way up the body, 350-400 hold on the top edge of the body, or something like that. It works extremly well for shooting 250 yards and in, especially with a flat-shooting cartridge like a 270. This method is literally the entire reason why "flat shooting" is a thing. Using it at longer ranges (300+) it's not my preference as error-stacking is a thing, but for someone mainly hunting with one gun where 95% of shots are inside 300 yards and truly none are ever past 400, and who has an existing regimen of practicing, it's undeniably simple and its been working for decades. Obviously it doesnt have to be that way, and if you're proficient with a dialing scope it can be fast and more precise...but the dude's been doing it this way since before most people here were alive and was very clear he had no intention of dialing, and I have better things to do than fight over this if it works for him.
Stinky Coyote
WKR
our brains are wired spatially and visually, and many shooters and hunters are trades related and very comfortable in seeing inches of size of things at any distance, I'm calling slot fish within a cm on the lakes every weekend before they hit the net lol, your brain already knows the size of the animals and terrain features, bushes etc. subconsciously, making hits with a rangefinder and using inches of hold is easy as fack, if you haven't tried it or don't have a lifelong institution of a tape measure in hand then maybe you need all the aids, but there are many ways to skin the cat, and skin it very quickly...I'll take S-3 on filling tags over you in a heartbeat and he will have them filled before you even think to grab the rangefinder
Stinky Coyote
WKR
further to that he likely wants to know your zero when guiding and can quickly tell you where to hold on an animal so you don't have to think, I do that with my kids all the time, even when I don't have time for rangefinder, it happens quick, hold spine on this one kid, hold 6" over back....etc., you can guide almost anyone that way if you know where they are zero'd and what they are shooting, especially to 400-ish, dealing with a 2' drop is no big thing, barely off fur (with mpbr-ish zero)
I'm cracking up. Keep it coming, fellas.
We've already got "just zero at 275", "I know an inch at any distance", "the computer is confusing me", "flat shooting", and "we regularly shoot milk jugs at 400"
My bingo card is just missing "Nosler Partition," "Leupold," and "wallup."
We've already got "just zero at 275", "I know an inch at any distance", "the computer is confusing me", "flat shooting", and "we regularly shoot milk jugs at 400"
My bingo card is just missing "Nosler Partition," "Leupold," and "wallup."
Stinky Coyote
WKR
Lol same here, the consummate rokslider, center of universe haha. You forgot to insert fudd somewhere in there.
Sounds like you're not very intimate with your trajectory, work on that. You live in a world of inches and feet your entire life, combined with knowledge of how brain works 'spatially visually', yet don't see any means of utilizing that when shooting and rely solely on the references inside a scope or clicks on a turret and rangefinder and in languages/measures you don't use in any other part of life. News flash for you...the scene at the other end of what you're looking through is also a tape measure.
Does amaze me how narrowly focused some get with this stuff and rely solely on one system while ignoring how intimate you already are with other things from everyday life and how your brain works spatially and visually and then jump on someone thinking you've got all the answers lol. You don't. You're not intimate with your trajectory, should probably understand it in moa, mils and inches.
Two examples from just this forum alone of what relying on one thing only and not being fully intimate with your trajectory that I can recall just off top of my head quick here. One guy passed on an elk at 300 or 350 (I'm gonna mix these two ranges up with these two examples as one was 300 and one was 350) and sorry if I called anyone out here. 1st guy I believe in a blind but lost light and couldn't read his turret anymore so let the elk opportunity pass despite being able to easily make it out in scope. The other was a dad/daughter combo, same thing, elk, Dad couldn't remember where turret was and not confident he didn't dial up from 100 zero to mpbr-ish or not, didn't want to mess his daughter up so had her pass. I believe both running 100 yard zero's. Guys that understand their trajectory intimately and have an appropriate mpbr-ish zero these tags would have been folded instantly lol. Even the dad/daughter thing. They had the range. All you had to know was the drop in inches, quick move up on the one about 8" done, the other quick mention to daughter where to move up to and done, folded tag, not even off fur. You get hung up on your system missing the forest for the trees. The solutions are nice but if you haven't even solved or tried to understand the tape measure at the scene then you're gonna eat lots of tag soup. Solutions are largely for ideal.
Like 8" to 16"....that's nothing to see on an elk and move accordingly. Nothing. And beyond fast to see and shoot or tell someone to see and shoot. Like what are we doing out there? That's classic fafo bro. Don't get me wrong, people like to fafo, carry on. Those intimate with their trajectory will fold tags before the fa part of the fo even gets started. It's two games out there. I'd rather have NO solutions in a system and just know my drops in inches every 50 from mpbr to 450 and could do everything I'm gonna do out there even with backup solutions that are mostly there for backup ideal stuff or hung up coyotes. But if you can't adapt and apply your intimate knowledge of your trajectory to the scene then you are missing critical tools in the game. So get back up on your 17 hand rokslide mule and preach away how your system is the be all end all lol.
Enjoy your variable zero rifle systems usually set on the wrong zero to begin with. Couple decent threads not too far back about how many guys have been caught off rotation...then come back to how to remove all the variables from your system. Easy, be on proper zero and be capped or locked and know intimately your trajectory from there for the no think stuff which can easily be handled to 400. Then play the fafo game from there...but not until there.
OP
OP
S-3 ranch
WKR
Lots of truth to this a tradesman is usually a good shot no matter how much bench time he/she has
A true life story, we where muledeer hunting and we jumped a huge old buck
As everyone was dialing and ranging, one of my hunters ( a master plumber)
Stepped up and popped him DRT @ about 375 yards , fluke no as a couple years later, he was hunting with the same guys when I saw a 150+ whitetail
Same thing everyone ranging and dialing, he calmly loaded and whacked the buck DRT .
Jim doesn’t shoot much except when he is hunting which is once , twice every couple years.
And yes I am relatively unfamiliar with 6.5cm and was asking for advice about best POI without having to worry about a dial up
Imo knowing how much to expect a caliber to do @ 100-350 meters helps me personally and professionally
I love hunting with women and kids as they usually listen to advice and are mostly very successful at wacking game at different levels of distance ( because they don’t want to mess up or fool around with the dials )
Omitting that word was a choice, not an oversight. We all know who we're talking about here.
What amazes me is that you (and people close to your age, probably) assume that, since you don't understand angular geometry, that those of us who choose to use it must not know inches.
Problem with that is we know inches just as well as everyone else. We just know inches AND MILs. Most of us know MOA too. We can also eyeball distance just as well or better, young eyes and all that. But we don't even have to if we don't want because we have a ruler inside the scope.
Using MILs is just objectively better and faster in every way, in every situation. The only reason not to use it is if you can't understand it.
Stinky Coyote
WKR
Cat skinning, more than one way lol.
I don't think guys spend enough time trying certain things and hyper focus on one thing that's geared to help you well past where most stuff is actually killed.
Got a recent example also, was recently only running inches of drop every 50 to about 450 data points on a couple rifles, one a slow 6.5 grendel with a red dot, zeroed at 205 to center of dot, played down in front of buddy on is his 300 yard gong and ripped 3 as quick as I could holding bottom of dot on top of gong and nice fist size group in middle of gong, then went 2 for 3 at 375-400 holding about 2' high and into wind....with NO magnification and a red dot. So much easier to do with some magnification. Inches of drop is a piece of cake but lots of these guys have never even tried it. That base data rides on every rifle regardless of system I have for going beyond. Mpbr zero, then inches at 250 (if needed), 300, 350, 400, 450....maybe 500 as well, it's a pretty small decal and easy to remind yourself your drops while out hunting. It's fast as fack boi haha, we know that but some of these 'kids these days' lol.
Expect some boomer jokes coming too
TaperPin
WKR
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2023
- Messages
- 5,228
That’s an easy one to fill in.
I’m zeroed at 300 yards across the board. Take your pic out of my flat shooting hunting closet of a 6mm-06, 25-06, 6.5 PRC, 6.5-284, 270, 284, 7 mag, 300 PRC, 300 win, 300 SAUM, or 300 RUM and at 400 yards they are all within an inch of 10” low with Partitions. Pick one blindfolded and milk jugs are about 10” tall. Using junior high math, or grade school geometry, that’s going to require holding half a milk jug over the top. Pretty simple. My old 6x Leupold is good for 1/2 MOA, but heck you might need help so use the fixed 12x coyote scope if it helps you feel better.
Any 14 year old in our family can say without a doubt the 6mm-06 has less wallop than the 300 RUM. Lol
On a calm day milk jugs don’t have a chance, but we live in a windy area, so it can be a challenge to hit narrow targets.
Heck if the weather is calm take the cap off that old Leupold and use a coin to dial up 5 MOA and I’d bet lunch on being able to hit that milk jug with any of them. Lol
You young guys forget when all the Fudds were your age we had more hunting and shooting under our belts, and silhouette was all the rage so we had competitions to 500 meters and had no problem figuring out how to get good rifle accuracy off the bench. We had a key to the 450 yard range 2 minutes from home as teenagers, and had amazing prairie dog towns to really get good at hitting small targets. If someone is popping prairie dogs at 300 yards, a milk jug at 400 isn’t that hard.
Like I said, we’ll pick a random rifle, your choice of old fixed Leupolds, get you sighted in for 300 so you can hold 1/2 jug over the top to hit at 400, and even you will be at the skill level of our teenagers.
You know you can set or verify your 200 (or whatever) zero by shooting at 100 yards right? For people who don’t shoot game at long distances, messing with turrets that may or may not be reliable, or SFP reticles seems far more likely to induce error than a longer zero that covers the distance they are going to shoot. I generally have 100 yard zero on rifles that I dial regularly, but rifles that wear something like a credo 3-9 get a longer zero every time. Sure, it has a reticle that can be used, if I happen to be on max zoom.
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Stinky Coyote
WKR
bud, my main rifle is wearing an nx8 1-8 capped dmx and is fed by a sig 6k in mils, and I have been reticling on steel to 640 with it, it's ok and glad the backup system is there but we are mpbr zeroed and do most our killing without a rangefinder and we do it very fast, but my inches of drop data on a decal on top of that capped turret every 50 to about 450 because anything inside 400 likely to be faster for the intimate with their trajectory and how the mind works and the reference on the scene
your tags will objectively be in your pocket more than mine or anyone else that is truly intimate with their trajectory in the lifelong understanding of the size of everything already subconsciously burned into your brain and can be seen at any distance and how to access it quickly while in no think zone which is most hunting situations, more thinky, equals more time, equals less tags filled...you do you, but don't think that's they best way for everyone, don't worry, I understand mils, moa at rifle end but more importantly INCHES at the animal end, you're missing tools in the bag
the scope end solution stuff is the back-up...not the primary lolStinky Coyote
WKR
I actually wish these dang rangefinders had the choice of all 3 units of measure to spit out solutions for instead of just moa or mils, as then you'd be covered for the tape measures at both ends, a straight duplex and mpbr zero as well, flip over to inches and you're good to go, the tape at the scene is easy peasy and wicked fast, I'd probably forgo internal tape solutions for the inches setting if I had that option in these ballistic rangefinders for many of my rigs. Certainly for the kids rigs or when guiding for them etc. Can just tell em where to hold on the scene.
Any industry folks listening? How hard would it be to add that unit to the menu? Guides prolly be pretty happy about that one also. Just tell the clients where to hold so they can keep them from stepping on their own dinks. haha
boomer fudds vs snot nose alphabet gens, round 3 - Fight!
Any industry folks listening? How hard would it be to add that unit to the menu? Guides prolly be pretty happy about that one also. Just tell the clients where to hold so they can keep them from stepping on their own dinks. haha
boomer fudds vs snot nose alphabet gens, round 3 - Fight!
solarshooter
WKR
Every time you write, you think you are owning us, but you are just showing more and more of your ignorance. OP was respectful and received respectful replies. He acknowledged the limitations of his chosen method and his ignorance of other methods. Even if some of your boasting is true, you are not as good of a shooter as you think, and if you ever bothered to actually quantify your shooting prowess or compare it to others who use the methods favored by this forum, you would realize the reality of the situation.bud, my main rifle is wearing an nx8 1-8 capped dmx and is fed by a sig 6k in mils, and I have been reticling on steel to 640 with it, it's ok and glad the backup system is there but we are mpbr zeroed and do most our killing without a rangefinder and we do it very fast, but my inches of drop data on a decal on top of that capped turret every 50 to about 450 because anything inside 400 likely to be faster for the intimate with their trajectory and how the mind works and the reference on the scene
your tags will objectively be in your pocket more than mine or anyone else that is truly intimate with their trajectory in the lifelong understanding of the size of everything already subconsciously burned into your brain and can be seen at any distance and how to access it quickly while in no think zone which is most hunting situations, more thinky, equals more time, equals less tags filled...you do you, but don't think that's they best way for everyone, don't worry, I understand mils, moa at rifle end but more importantly INCHES at the animal end, you're missing tools in the bag
To be frank, shooting at things sub 400yds is easy, and you SHOULD have a high hit rate (>75%) with decent equipment and shooting practice. Boasting about hit rates and techniques that get you hits on a 12" vital zone under 400yds is like a guy rolling up to a car meet with a stock civic with the loud exhaust and bragging about his 1/4 mile times. Yes we believe you can do it and there are many ways to do it successfully.
Now if you went and tried to do an NRL 22 or PRS competition with a duplex reticle and inches of drop written on your scope caps, you and everyone around you would learn a valuable lesson.
OP
OP
S-3 ranch
WKR
Leica Geovid 10x matched with a Ketral , spits out some decent information
Sure, I know that. But again, imo there’s a better way. Zero at 100, again so you can maximise precision, but then just twist the scope up a a few clicks for a higher “walking around” mpbr as you please. This also allows for much greater flexibility as your hunting terrain changes.
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