How far is too far?

[ndbwhunter]

Thanks for the great discussion guys. I'll probably checkout the surrounding areas to find something a little closer. My goal was to get into an area with no hunting pressure, but I don't need to go that far to find unpressured elk. I appreciate all the input.

 

[ndbwhunter]

When given the option, do you prefer to hang or submerge meat bags? Will contractor bags offer enough protection, or would I be better off using dry bags?

 

[Topgun 30-06]

When given the option, do you prefer to hang or submerge meat bags? Will contractor bags offer enough protection, or would I be better off using dry bags?

Any advice on the questions above?

Hang meat in breathable bags made especially for that job in the shade and where air can circulate around them. Putting meat in unknown water sources, although keeping it colder, will only speed up bacterial action that can lead to premature spoilage.

 

[jmez]

If there is a good trail in and a good population of elk 12 miles in you will have to hunt for a parking spot because of all the MT trailers and rigs in the parking area. MT is definitely a horse hunting state, esp that portion of MT. Be prepared for company.

 

[ndbwhunter]

Hang meat in breathable bags made especially for that job in the shade and where air can circulate around them. Putting meat in unknown water sources, although keeping it colder, will only speed up bacterial action that can lead to premature spoilage.

Thank you. I've read a number of threads that mention submerging meat, but I'm assuming that is only done as a last resort.

 

[Jason Snyder]

Read this:

Aging Game Shot in Warm Weather

A 65ºF temperature at the time of the kill will result in less toughening and hardening of the muscles due to rigor mortis than will a temperature of 34ºF. In addition, the action of natural enzymes which are responsible for tenderness increases is much faster at 65ºF. Thus, aging at 65ºF for 3 days gives the same amount of tenderization as the more conventional aging temperature of 34ºF for 2 weeks. Therefore, game which is killed when the temperature is near 65ºF and held at this temperature should not be aged.
Game slaughtered in the cold months of November and December should be aged longer than game slaughtered in the warm months of September and October. Alternating temperatures, such 65ºF days and 30°F nights speeds up the aging process. Under these conditions aging game 1 week or less is recommended. During warm hunting seasons, special care should be taken to keep the carcass cool. It should be kept in the shade and allowed as much air circulation as possible. Transport the carcass to camp and skin it if the temperature is expected to be above freezing the first night after the kill. Cheese cloth or light cotton bags should be used to protect the meat from insects and dirt. Because they hold in heat and cause meat to spoil rapidly, airtight game bags or tarps should not be used.

Dr. Field is a well respected authority on meat processing. I spoke with him directly about this very subject, and he reaffirmed that one can hang meat in an outdoor environment, with an internal temperature of 60 degrees for three days. Of course there are individual variances such as bone in vs. boneless, dirt, rain, flies, etc. that all must be taken into account. Your boned cuts like backstraps, tenders, and scrap meat should go in the cooler first and would be my first trip. The bone in quarters will easily make the three days with any reasonable amount of cleanliness.

The cut within one day mandate is if the carcass temperature is maintained at 65 degrees PLUS for over 24 hours.

 

[Jason Snyder]

If there is a good trail in and a good population of elk 12 miles in you will have to hunt for a parking spot because of all the MT trailers and rigs in the parking area. MT is definitely a horse hunting state, esp that portion of MT. Be prepared for company.

That's truth right there. The upper trailhead parking areas in that unit will be absolutely full during the early rifle hunt. We had to park in an overflow lot a couple miles down the road from the trailhead one year in that drainage.

 

[jmez]

Parking lots are getting full during bow season as well. Not quite as bad as rifle though. Talked to a guy this year lives and hunts in the area. He pulled up on Friday before first rifle last year and there were 29 trucks with trailers parked.

 

[Piscatory_4]

Arrange for a small helicopter to come sling load you and elk out.

 

[Kevin_t]

Last year, I packed a decent sized forky Mule Deer from a ravine at the bottom of a 60 degree slope about 7 miles through a series of ravines and finally about 3000 ft descent. Everything , one trip, all except the last mile off trail, through brush, thorns, oak brush, some class 3 through rock bands, 800 ft uphill at one point. Pack weight at home was a bit over 90 lbs. I took one small break, when I slipped and thought "this is nice place for a break". Moving time was about 4.5 HRS. Honestly, I felt pretty good the next day and likely could have done it again, just slower. However, that being said, I would not pack a bull from the same spot without some packers ready to go, even if it was an 8 X 8 and cold enough to take 3 days. Would I take another deer there ? Probably not, I know of areas closer that hold some nice deer as well. I felt silly putting that much effort into a non brute, even if he eats fantastic.

 

[Justin Crossley]

If I have to delete anymore posts, this thread will get locked. Keep it informational.

 

[airlocksniffer]

Arrange for a small helicopter to come sling load you and elk out.

That's a really good idea. I wonder if an hour of chopper time would be more or less than hiring stock.

 

[Kevin_t]

From the chopper bills I have seen that have the capability, it would be far less expensive to hire stock.

 

[ssliger]

One thing you should do if you are going to hang the meat in the shade, and leaving the quarters on the bone. Make a cut through the meat to the bone, the meat spoils from the bone out. Good luck and let us know what you decide.

 

[Finch]

I'm thankful for the debate in this thread because a newbie like myself has learned a lot. So just to be clear, you guys only submerge meat as a last resort? Also, (not trying to hi-jack) but I think I've read that some game bags are a little TOO breathable and allow flies to blow the meat. Any truth to that? No mention of citric acid, why?

Edit: Just read something about bag recommendations and the ones to stay away from.

 

[Shrek]

Citric acid and submerging the meat may buy you time but what's the point in Montana. You are not going to out distance hike the horses. Finding pockets the others pass by or are unwilling to negotiate are where it's at. Remember that submerging meat must be done in a bag that keeps it dry and for relatively short time in the middle of the hottest part of the day. Keeping it cool , dry , clean , and air circulating is key.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

One thing you should do if you are going to hang the meat in the shade, and leaving the quarters on the bone. Make a cut through the meat to the bone, the meat spoils from the bone out. Good luck and let us know what you decide.

Better yet, bone it out! That gets rid of extra weight and allows the meat that's close to the bone to cool faster. Most souring and spoilage in elk starts in the deeper pockets of the hind quarters and the heavy chest/shoulder areas! The quicker you take the hide off and get all of those areas open for proper cooling the better. There have been numerous instances of guy relating instances of spoilage of elk meat even when it was laying in snow that they thought would help cool it and eliminate the problem. If you have never smelled sour elk meat, it's not nice and a shame that the one guy I know didn't take care of his on a warm day in Wyoming and lost half of his cow.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

I'm thankful for the debate in this thread because a newbie like myself has learned a lot. So just to be clear, you guys only submerge meat as a last resort? Also, (not trying to hi-jack) but I think I've read that some game bags are a little TOO breathable and allow flies to blow the meat. Any truth to that? No mention of citric acid, why?

Edit: Just read something about bag recommendations and the ones to stay away from.

Correct! There is no sense in going with cheap bags that will allow what you mentioned and it will happen. Citric acid is one way some use to try and keep insects at bay and it does no harm to the meat whatsoever. Also, if meat is submerged in unknown waters, it definitely should be as a last resort because it speeds up microbial action. If a person has the proper plan and supplies and doesn't go overboard on how far he goes back in, there should IMO be no reason to have to go that latter route of submerging in water.

 

[Matt Cashell]

Citric Acid does more than try and keep insects at bay. It drops the PH and keeps bacteria from colonizing and spoiling the meat as well.

My Alaskan Moose meat kept for 2 weeks in mild temperatures when treated religiously with citric acid.

Lary Bartlett is a Rokslide member with a lot of citric acid expertise and experience. Here is a link to an article of his I found quite usefull prior to my AK hunt:

http://www.pristineventures.com/124-front-page/159-why-use-citric-acid-on-game-meat.html

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Citric Acid does more than try and keep insects at bay. It drops the PH and keeps bacteria from colonizing and spoiling the meat as well.

My Alaskan Moose meat kept for 2 weeks in mild temperatures when treated religiously with citric acid.

Lary Bartlett is a Rokslide member with a lot of citric acid expertise and experience. Here is a link to an article of his I found quite usefull prior to my AK hunt:

http://www.pristineventures.com/124-front-page/159-why-use-citric-acid-on-game-meat.html

Exactly, but I decided not to get into the other chemical pluses of using it for fear that it might make newbies complacent in thinking it's a cure all, which it isn't, but it is certainly something to be aware of that can help on a back country hunt as long as someone doesn't solely rely on it. Good link incidentally!