How far is too far?

[les welch]

Let me tell you where I am coming from, literally and figuratively. I used to be a "fat" guy. I live in North Central Wisconsin at 250' elevation. My first Western hunt was antelope in my 30's. I was out of shape (holy hell a lot), but I have a good head game. I got on the scale one morning after that hunt and looked at the scale,wow. That day changed my life. I started eating clean, portion control, running and HIT. I lost a ton of weight. I had been researching my first elk hunt for two years and the time was nearing. Western Idaho, DIY, public land, 2 weeks to hunt. Other than learning how to read maps I had done EVERYTHING on my own. I used GE and had my camping spot picked out. I had a route created on my GPS. I pulled into that trailhead just before daybreak. As I shouldered my pack and gear (117#) for two weeks I was listening to elk bugle within a mile (mistake 1 ) I hike that pack for 13 hours that day through the roughest, nastiest, blowdown bull$hit I had EVER seen. I pitched my tent in the dark that night. Less than 24 hours later I was standing over my first elk, a 5 point. DIY,public land, first time ever in Idaho, first time ever in the mountains, first time ever elk hunting. I broke that bull down (deboned and hung) and started out with the first load, even after literally being 100% exhausted the day before. It was HOT and DRY that trip. Temps got into the 80's....however I knew what I had to do to keep the meat safe, and I did it. It wasn't easy, but I brought home 298# of boned out Idaho elk meat back to WI. I've done it every year since, and sometimes twice a year. Don't be to hasty to say can't or impossible people.....and apply that to everyday life also, not just elk hunting and see where it leads you.

 

[Bar]

What if we all said for him to go for it. It can be done, because we all did it.

So, he tries it, and totally fails. Most all the meat is lost, and he's fed up with elk hunting. Maybe he got an injury from trying to pack out too much.

Would we have given him good advice? It's better to learn elk hunting in steps. Don't make your first hunt the hardest hunt you can think of.

That's my advice, and i'm sticking to it.

 

[les welch]

What if we all said for him to go for it. It can be done, because we all did it.

So, he tries it, and totally fails. Most all the meat is lost, and he's fed up with elk hunting. Maybe he got an injury from trying to pack out too much.

Would we have given him good advice? It's better to learn elk hunting in steps. Don't make your first hunt the hardest hunt you can think of.

That's my advice, and i'm sticking to it.

I agree 100%. That also would be a lie. We haven't all done it, most never will and a lot can't. However some can, some have, and some will. You are not wrong, nor are you right. Neither am I. Everyone is different. Just trying to point out to all who say he can't do it or shouldn't do it. Only he knows what he is capable of, and in reality he doesn't know what all he is capable of if he hasn't been there. I do know that realistically most people are to conservative. I train people 7 days a week, and that is the common, almost everyone underestimates their ability.

 

[luke moffat]

Les I don't think anyone is saying it's impossible I am certainly not. Just don't think it's wise to have someone that has little experience with packing animals out that far try it as ones first crack at backpakx hunting. I have never even seen a dead elk but have packed a pile of other critters over the years and it's a progression for the most of us. I just don't feel the progression should start 12 miles back through deadfall with 300-400 pounds on the ground.

You say we don't know what he is capable of and I agree with that 100% but if he's never done it he has never done anything remotely close to packing out like this then he doesn't know if he is capable or not. This isn't like helping someone run a 10k when they thought they couldn't even to a 5k. In that case the risks are low if the person can not in fact do it. In this case if the person can't do it then a lot of meat could go to spoil over the course of 4-5 days of getting the meat out. I doubt your first elk (that 5 point) was 12 miles back was it?

At the end of the day the OP is gonna do what he wants and likely find that he won't be anywhere near 12 miles off the road when he finds a bull and all of this will be moot.

 

[les welch]

For the most part I agree Luke, however a few did see that it was impossible in the beginning and it couldn't be done.

 

[les welch]

LOL, I agree with your edited version Luke. The OP will do what he is going to and it will be moot. Honestly I think numbers of 4-5 days and having meat spoilage are inaccurate. If you can get meat cool (who can't in the mountains) you have longer than 4-5 days. It took one of my buddies 5 days to get an elk out of a MT burn in '10, never lost an ounce of meat because he knew what he was doing. Temps in the 80's during the day. No, it wasn't anywhere near 12 miles in, but it was the hardest terrain I've ever navigated. I killed a bull solo in '09 over 9 miles into a wilderness. No problems at all. NO not everyone can do it, and I wouldn't tell anyone to do it. But I would also never tell anyone that most things are impossible or can't be done. That's too narrow minded. BTW I'm not talking about 5k's or 10 k's I'm meaning endurance stuff like Ironman. Have a great week-end all.
s

 

[Bar]

I agree 100%. That also would be a lie. We haven't all done it, most never will and a lot can't. However some can, some have, and some will. You are not wrong, nor are you right. Neither am I. Everyone is different. Just trying to point out to all who say he can't do it or shouldn't do it. Only he knows what he is capable of, and in reality he doesn't know what all he is capable of if he hasn't been there. I do know that realistically most people are to conservative. I train people 7 days a week, and that is the common, almost everyone underestimates their ability.

I understand. I used to manage a gym in Redondo Beach Ca. Some guys just don't understand what hard work is, and never push themselves.
I was conservative with the OP, because I don't know him. If he's the type who could do this hunt on his own. He'll probably try it no matter what we say.

 

[luke moffat]

I hear Ya Les. Meat can be taken care of in the mountain for 4-5 days. But you are looking at 96-120 miles half of that with meat on your back. It's certainly doable but for one I question where he is getting 12 miles away from any road in a straight line in the lower 48 outside of the bob Marshall or frank church so this really isn't an issue anyways.

9 miles for an elk is a feat no doubt and I will say terrain is more of a factor than distance in my experience and 12 miles through deadfall is not a recipe anyone I think would suggest for ones first rodeo backpacking a elk out. But what do I know I have never even seen a dead elk.

As for iron mans and such again the risk is very low if someone isn't up to the task or goal. When someone says they want to try an ironman competition and train for it do you start them off with the 3 mile swim, 112 mile bike ride, and 26.2 mile run for training day #1?

Again not saying it's impossible, just saying it's not likely an anyone's best interest to suggest it's a good idea to one who has never packed out an animal that far.

 

[dirtytough]

I would not hesitate to shoot a bull 12 miles in if I had the time to pack it out. Also it sounds like there is a trail. Once you get it out to the trail it is a lot easier. I know it would be hard work though.

 

[les welch]

I hear Ya Les. Meat can be taken care of in the mountain for 4-5 days. But you are looking at 96-120 miles half of that with meat on your back. It's certainly doable but for one I question where he is getting 12 miles away from any road in a straight line in the lower 48 outside of the bob Marshall or frank church so this really isn't an issue anyways.

9 miles for an elk is a feat no doubt and I will say terrain is more of a factor than distance in my experience and 12 miles through deadfall is not a recipe anyone I think would suggest for ones first rodeo backpacking a elk out. But what do I know I have never even seen a dead elk.

As for iron mans and such again the risk is very low if someone isn't up to the task or goal. When someone says they want to try an ironman competition and train for it do you start them off with the 3 mile swim, 112 mile bike ride, and 26.2 mile run for training day #1?

Again not saying it's impossible, just saying it's not likely an anyone's best interest to suggest it's a good idea to one who has never packed out an animal that far.

Luke first off you know as well as I you are at the top of the list for doing it, if it can be done. Would it be fun, no, but I would put money on it you could do it if needed. Also you are spot on with terrain. I'd take my 9 mile in over the 4 mile trip I described earlier any day, not even close to the same in exertion or time. The 9 mile is way faster.

Also you know as well as I it doesn't matter what an elk looks like on the ground. You've been in on more than enough moose to know what work is

I've never said that he should do it, or that it would be a good idea....just trying to covey to all the negative people that it can be done. I don't have any desire to do it, but I do know I can and would if needed. Also there is very few reasons or places one should have to be 12 miles from a vehicle to get into elk.

You're not asking a fair question as far as Ironman goes. No I would not say show up on Sunday morning and do IM without having trained for it. But that also assumes that you are saying this gentlemen isn't training at all right now for his upcoming hunt. Personally I recommend training for two years to complete an Ironman....that said I completed my first one with 2 months of training. I trained for over two years for my first elk hunt and it was a 100% success. Not any two people are alike, so I'm just trying to get people not to be so close minded.

 

[Aron Snyder]

I packed a bull out 12 miles solo.....it sucked, but it can be done.

I kept the meat in a creek to keep it cool (game bags in garbage bag). It took trips and 3 days, so it is possible. ......but sucks.

 

[Bar]

I have too. That's why i'm not recommending it.

 

[luke moffat]

Luke first off you know as well as I you are at the top of the list for doing it, if it can be done. Would it be fun, no, but I would put money on it you could do it if needed. Also you are spot on with terrain. I'd take my 9 mile in over the 4 mile trip I described earlier any day, not even close to the same in exertion or time. The 9 mile is way faster.

Also you know as well as I it doesn't matter what an elk looks like on the ground. You've been in on more than enough moose to know what work is

I've never said that he should do it, or that it would be a good idea....just trying to covey to all the negative people that it can be done. I don't have any desire to do it, but I do know I can and would if needed. Also there is very few reasons or places one should have to be 12 miles from a vehicle to get into elk.

You're not asking a fair question as far as Ironman goes. No I would not say show up on Sunday morning and do IM without having trained for it. But that also assumes that you are saying this gentlemen isn't training at all right now for his upcoming hunt. Personally I recommend training for two years to complete an Ironman....that said I completed my first one with 2 months of training. I trained for over two years for my first elk hunt and it was a 100% success. Not any two people are alike, so I'm just trying to get people not to be so close minded.

Les, I think we agree on this more than disagree.

Especially given the fact that this 12 miles is mostly on a trail? I was under the impression it was mostly 12 miles of deadfall and log hopping. It the terrain is more trail than brush busting and canyon climbing then 12 miles becomes much more doable for someone like myself which the amount of time to do it. If I had to haul an elk out of where I caribou hunt then 3-4 days to do it would be certainly doable as the walking is mostly easy and only one 2 mile climb at a shallow gradient to speak of.

Terrain is everything IMO. Some of my worst packout has only been 1-3 miles off the road IMO.

Certainly the OP is gonna do what he wants. I don't want to dampen someones asprations by any means. I do feel that if he makes it in the 12 miles it will be up to him to decide if he's up to the pack out or not. Its his call. No doubt some FON (freak of nature ) like Aron can do it, but he is a FON

 

[Aron Snyder]

If you didn't get that from my first post, I wouldn't suggest it either.

 

[luke moffat]

Haha I did! But you are still a FON!!

 

[squeekieslayer]

Let me tell you where I am coming from, literally and figuratively. I used to be a "fat" guy. I live in North Central Wisconsin at 250' elevation. My first Western hunt was antelope in my 30's. I was out of shape (holy hell a lot), but I have a good head game. I got on the scale one morning after that hunt and looked at the scale,wow. That day changed my life. I started eating clean, portion control, running and HIT. I lost a ton of weight. I had been researching my first elk hunt for two years and the time was nearing. Western Idaho, DIY, public land, 2 weeks to hunt. Other than learning how to read maps I had done EVERYTHING on my own. I used GE and had my camping spot picked out. I had a route created on my GPS. I pulled into that trailhead just before daybreak. As I shouldered my pack and gear (117#) for two weeks I was listening to elk bugle within a mile (mistake 1 ) I hike that pack for 13 hours that day through the roughest, nastiest, blowdown bull$hit I had EVER seen. I pitched my tent in the dark that night. Less than 24 hours later I was standing over my first elk, a 5 point. DIY,public land, first time ever in Idaho, first time ever in the mountains, first time ever elk hunting. I broke that bull down (deboned and hung) and started out with the first load, even after literally being 100% exhausted the day before. It was HOT and DRY that trip. Temps got into the 80's....however I knew what I had to do to keep the meat safe, and I did it. It wasn't easy, but I brought home 298# of boned out Idaho elk meat back to WI. I've done it every year since, and sometimes twice a year. Don't be to hasty to say can't or impossible people.....and apply that to everyday life also, not just elk hunting and see where it leads you.

Were you 12 miles in?

 

[Bar]

For those who have hunted the area. It didn't sound like it was all trail.

 

[jmez]

May be all trail for the hike in. The elk won't be near the trail during daylight hours. If it's well traveled they'll be a mile or so away. That will be a series of straight up an down. I can't imagine there being a 12 mile contiguous trail in there that doesn't cross another road or trail closer to a road.

 

[Piscatory_4]

Is this area all or mostly wilderness so there are no roads available? I looked at the map for area 560 so it's at least partly wilderness. My thoughts are that once you have the animal down the fun and enjoyment of the hunt is finished and it is now work time to get the animal out as soon as possible. Quickest and easiest way possible.

 

[njdoxie]

I packed a bull out 12 miles solo.....it sucked, but it can be done.

I kept the meat in a creek to keep it cool (game bags in garbage bag). It took trips and 3 days, so it is possible. ......but sucks.

Wow, I think that would break me, no way I could do that....I have at least 3, preferably 4 horse packers on speed dial, I'm in about 8 miles or so. Completing IM triathlon on 2 months training is FON type stuff too.