How far does stealth REALLY matter?

[guitarpreston]

Hypothetical scenario, you glass up a nice buck and get him to bed about a mile and a half away. Planning your approach you have to cross a drainage to get to the other side, the shortest route puts you walking across an open patch where you're visible but still 1.5 miles away, or you could walk the opposite direction a mile or so to be out of sight. Is it worth the extra 2 miles walking or will it bother them to see something that far off? If you'd cross and be exposed, at what distance would you not?

 

[fishdart]

It depends. If it is a B.O.A.L., then that 2 miles extra may lead to someone else shooting it out from under you....

 

[guitarpreston]

It depends. If it is a B.O.A.L., then that 2 miles extra may lead to someone else shooting it out from under you....

B.O.A.L.?

 

[Poser]

Mule deer usually won't tend to spook from that far out (though there certainly are exceptions), however, if he sees you and knows you are there, he may be on high alert. Though, my experience is that, for mule deer at least, they don't perceive people as being threats from that far away assuming they are bedded down.

 

[TaperPin]

I have a friend who enjoys hunting large patches of Krumholtz for deer we’ve never seen - hoping a new buck made it into the area overnight. He will see a good looking spot, find a shooting location so there’s about 400 yards from him to the likely escape path, and glass it carefully, then relax for a bit, glass it again, maybe take a short nap, glass again, relax another 20 minutes, etc. Often there are bedded deer that just put their heads down and wait for you to pass. When you don’t pass, they will get nervous and eventually try to slowly tip toe away - Bang Kapow.

As to how close is too close - the wife and I took an exposed 1/2 mile route across a giant talus slope to get up a steep ridge and into some good bedding areas. She was excited and about 100 yards in front of me, when I noticed a very nice buck above her on a rocky point 75 yards away - he saw her and not me - he was staring at her as he put his head flat to the ground like a dog would to let her pass. Fun to see.

If you’re crossing in the open 1/2 mile (800-1000 yards) away I doubt most undisturbed deer would care, but they probably know you’re there and are more on guard. On the other hand if they were just chased out of another drainage and still full of nerves, it wouldn’t surprise me if they get up and relocate if that’s easy to do.

 

[fishdart]

B.O.A.L.?

buck of a lifetime. Perhaps a poor attempt to reference a legendary thread from a couple of years back.

 

[bigmoose]

If the buck you've found is an old mature buck and is bedded, he will for sure see you, especially if you are wearing hunter orange. After you disappear from his sight, he will either leave the area or move into heavy cover where he'll feel safe. I would do everything I could to avoid him seeing me even if he's a mile and a half away. I think these old bucks are just that wary. Just my thoughts.

 

[armedhiker]

B.O.A.L.?

buck of a lifetime

 

[guitarpreston]

buck of a lifetime. Perhaps a poor attempt to reference a legendary thread from a couple of years back.

Nah i just live under a rock

 

[RockAndSage]

The problem with experience comes when you have the wrong kind.

Most hunters calibrate to what they have the most experience with, and it's not big bucks. It's "mule deer".

Think of mule deer in tiers - your lowest tier are yearlings and does, who may or may not see your movement at 1.5 miles for various reasons, between how they bed and the level of attention they pay. If they do see you at that distance they likely won't care much. They're not pressured or hunted by humans much. They'll wait until the danger is much closer, usually.

Your next tier are 2-3yo bucks. They'll both see you before the lower tier muleys, and will move out earlier, but they'll wait until you get closer - because they haven't experienced being hunted by humans much, but they're had a season or two to learn. But between wind, sound, and your movement, they've made you long, long before you have them, most of the time - but they just can't quite be bothered to move much yet. But some have learned to move before you get into common rifle range.

These first two tiers are the vast majority of what mule deer hunters are calibrated to - and it's the wrong kind of experience if you're looking for something older or bigger. You just cannot get away with the same mistakes the younger deer teach you are acceptable.

The top tier are your bucks that hit 4 years old or better - it's almost like a different kind of animal. The difference between a 4 or 5yo mule deer buck, and a 2yo, is almost like the difference between a yard goat and a pronghorn. Not only do they pay far more attention to their senses - including positioning themselves in the landscape to maximize their ability to do so - they take no chances and move out as soon as they detect you. To give you an idea of what level they're at, a big old buck beds down with at least 2-3 exact escape routes they know they'll take, depending on where danger comes in from, and they know exactly where they're going - backup bed. And it will be almost as secure as primary bed.

This is why almost nobody is calibrated to them - they're gone before you even knew they were there, on top of being far less common to begin with.

As a general rule with few exceptions, if you want to nail an old buck you'll need to do whatever it takes stay out of sight, out of sound, and out of smell, until you're ready to shoot.

 

[guitarpreston]

The problem with experience comes when you have the wrong kind.

Most hunters calibrate to what they have the most experience with, and it's not big bucks. It's "mule deer".

Think of mule deer in tiers - your lowest tier are yearlings and does, who may or may not see your movement at 1.5 miles for various reasons, between how they bed and the level of attention they pay. If they do see you at that distance they likely won't care much. They're not pressured or hunted by humans much. They'll wait until the danger is much closer, usually.

Your next tier are 2-3yo bucks. They'll both see you before the lower tier muleys, and will move out earlier, but they'll wait until you get closer - because they haven't experienced being hunted by humans much, but they're had a season or two to learn. But between wind, sound, and your movement, they've made you long, long before you have them, most of the time - but they just can't quite be bothered to move much yet. But some have learned to move before you get into common rifle range.

These first two tiers are the vast majority of what mule deer hunters are calibrated to - and it's the wrong kind of experience if you're looking for something older or bigger. You just cannot get away with the same mistakes the younger deer teach you are acceptable.

The top tier are your bucks that hit 4 years old or better - it's almost like a different kind of animal. The difference between a 4 or 5yo mule deer buck, and a 2yo, is almost like the difference between a yard goat and a pronghorn. Not only do they pay far more attention to their senses - including positioning themselves in the landscape to maximize their ability to do so - they take no chances and move out as soon as they detect you. To give you an idea of what level they're at, a big old buck beds down with at least 2-3 exact escape routes they know they'll take, depending on where danger comes in from, and they know exactly where they're going - backup bed. And it will be almost as secure as primary bed.

This is why almost nobody is calibrated to them - they're gone before you even knew they were there, on top of being far less common to begin with.

As a general rule with few exceptions, if you want to nail an old buck you'll need to do whatever it takes stay out of sight, out of sound, and out of smell, until you're ready to shoot.

Walking an extra couple miles doesn’t seem like a lot compared to driving for many hours to eat tag soup when you get home.

 

[Dirtscoots]

I personally wouldn’t waste my time putting on a stock on a deer that potentially saw me. With that being said the last deer I shot could see our camp from the ridge he was on. I was able to sneak in for the kill. So maybe I’m full of bad advise.

 

[ckleeves]

If your scenario is set in Colorado high country that buck has already seen at least a dozen hikers at 1.5 miles that morning. If they snuck out of a bed everytime they saw someone at that distance they wouldn’t stop moving from June till October. Put on the bright colored Pataguchi, don’t stop or look in their direction or act like you’re trying to hide and walk loud and proud right across that opening. Staying on a trail is your best bet, the deer know where people are supposed to be and where they aren’t.

I have watched countless mature bucks bedded 700 yards from popular hiking trails. They watch people go by all day every day. Now if a hiker stops and sheds a jacket, gets a drink, etc you can watch them get nervous. If they go off trail to pee, filter water etc they might even stand and start staging toward an escape route.

 

[RockAndSage]

If your scenario is set in Colorado high country that buck has already seen at least a dozen hikers at 1.5 miles that morning. If they snuck out of a bed everytime they saw someone at that distance they wouldn’t stop moving from June till October. Put on the bright colored Pataguchi, don’t stop or look in their direction or act like you’re trying to hide and walk loud and proud right across that opening. Staying on a trail is your best bet, the deer know where people are supposed to be and where they aren’t.

I have watched countless mature bucks bedded 700 yards from popular hiking trails. They watch people go by all day every day. Now if a hiker stops and sheds a jacket, gets a drink, etc you can watch them get nervous. If they go off trail to pee, filter water etc they might even stand and start staging toward an escape route.

This is a great point. There's a very big difference between habituated bucks and remote bucks.

At least in how quickly they'll respond. But, the old ones definitely still see you way out there, either way.

 

[Schoolhousegrizz]

If your scenario is set in Colorado high country that buck has already seen at least a dozen hikers at 1.5 miles that morning. If they snuck out of a bed everytime they saw someone at that distance they wouldn’t stop moving from June till October. Put on the bright colored Pataguchi, don’t stop or look in their direction or act like you’re trying to hide and walk loud and proud right across that opening. Staying on a trail is your best bet, the deer know where people are supposed to be and where they aren’t.

I have watched countless mature bucks bedded 700 yards from popular hiking trails. They watch people go by all day every day. Now if a hiker stops and sheds a jacket, gets a drink, etc you can watch them get nervous. If they go off trail to pee, filter water etc they might even stand and start staging toward an escape route.

Totally agree. Reminds me of a photographer that got killed by a grizzly bear in Yellowstone in 1984. The grizzly was photographed all the time from the road. Didn't mind people. One photographer followed it over the hill and came up on the grizzly. The grizzly wasn't used to seeing people back there. It turned and killed him. Animals are accustomed to people that are in common places where they always see people . They know when something is up and out of the ordinary.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

This greatly depends on terrain, age of buck/amount of pressure, and noise/wind factor.

The buck “seeing you” at that range should come as a very hard 3rd place to wind direction and noise you are making.

 

[ckleeves]

This is a great point. There's a very big difference between habituated bucks and remote bucks.

At least in how quickly they'll respond. But, the old ones definitely still see you way out there, either way.

I don’t even know if I would call them habituated bucks. You can pick an extremely remote basin in the middle of the Weminuche and it’s gonna see hikers and sheep herders all summer. It’s just Colorado in general. If it’s scenic it’s getting hiked, biked or ATV’d, if it’s sage and grass it’s getting grazed and water tanks and fence checked pretty much daily and if it’s flat and green it’s getting water changed on it daily.

Deer see people all the time, if hunters stopped acting like hunters and started acting like the people those deer see all the time they would be surprised what they could get away with.

 

[Dioni A]

Depends a lot on how pressured the deer are in that area. If you're on the Wasatch front and they see you at all it's a problem if you're in Central Idaho and you're 700 yd away they don't seem to care at all. I've seen some deer and these are large deer watch people walk 150 yards away from a bedded position and then when the people leave stand up and go back to feeding. It's really hard to quantify because each deer is used to different level of pressures. For the most part I think 700-800 yd is a good threshold for most big bucks

 

[RockAndSage]

I don’t even know if I would call them habituated bucks. You can pick an extremely remote basin in the middle of the Weminuche and it’s gonna see hikers and sheep herders all summer. It’s just Colorado in general. If it’s scenic it’s getting hiked, biked or ATV’d, if it’s sage and grass it’s getting grazed and water tanks and fence checked pretty much daily and if it’s flat and green it’s getting water changed on it daily.

Deer see people all the time, if hunters stopped acting like hunters and started acting like the people those deer see all the time they would be surprised what they could get away with.

I don't disagree with you at all. Almost all my experience has been in the high desert Great Basin, and we just don't have what you're describing for the vast majority of the region. Closest thing is maybe a couple of the Toiyabe areas. Other than that, the only habituation I've seen with older, bigger deer are a couple of places where ranch or gravel trucks go by regularly on dirt. Everywhere else it just doesn't have those kinds of hikers, at least north of Clark County (Vegas) and East of Washoe (Reno area). That said, since Covid there have been a lot more ATV types going further and further out. That might change things a bit. But really remote Nevada? It's still pretty rare to see hikers.

 

[RockAndSage]

Depends a lot on how pressured the deer are in that area. If you're on the Wasatch front and they see you at all it's a problem if you're in Central Idaho and you're 700 yd away they don't seem to care at all. I've seen some deer and these are large deer watch people walk 150 yards away from a bedded position and then when the people leave stand up and go back to feeding. It's really hard to quantify because each deer is used to different level of pressures. For the most part I think 700-800 yd is a good threshold for most big bucks

You're saying that's an average distance they'll start moving out from, right? I want to delineate for the OP the difference between deer being able to perceive you and deer actually leaving.

Your points about pressure, and @ckleeves point about habituation, both ring true for me. That said, I've seen a number of big, older bucks moving out over saddles and through other escape routes a lot further out than 700-800yds. Granted, these are big, old desert bucks who have the advantage of wind, thermals, and very big vistas, tucked up in the rimrock, so it may be different in more timbered areas. I just assume that if I can see them doing that here, they'd be doing it in places I can't see that far in too.