How are you training for long range?

[WKR]

I have an upcoming hunt where I expect there to be opportunities at long range. So I have been implementing a self imposed cold bore challenge everyday, once I become comfortable at the set distance I move the target back and resume the daily cold bore shot.
This week, starting Sunday, im at 750. Yesterday I go out and hit the cold bore and a follow up just for good measure, today....whiffed on the cold bore and a follow up, Yesterday was a consistent 5mph wind that was easier to call then today with a 6mph that was variable and I over compensated both times I shot.
I wonder though if my target is to small? Its a 8×12 ipsc, which actually is a good size representation of a deers vitals but at 750, if I miss its hard sometimes to see which side of the plate I'm on and what to correct. Should I step up to a bigger plate and paint a kill zone size aiming point ?
Anyhow, I'd like to hear some recommendations on what more I should implement into the training regiment and also what some of you guys do to train for upcoming hunts.

I am training field positions too, but keep that 600 and in. The cold bore stuff is if I get an opportunity where I can be prone or fully supported

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

That’s good shooting and really cool to see folks practicing!

I think you need to figure out what you’re trying to achieve. Are you trying to confirm long range dope and confirmed field impacts with your hunting rifles? Or are you trying to practice cold bore shots and follow up shots to already known/proven long range rifles? I don’t combine those two things generally.

I do the latter on average 3 days a week with several rifles, year round. Usually shoot more than just one cold bore and a follow up shot through.

10” round gongs for the target usually. This is on previously verified guns with good/known/solid zeroes and previously shot out to around 1,000-1,500 yards with confirmed water line hits.

I always verify data on my guns, on large targets with a water line drawn or painted. Think 4x4 plywood chunk with a fresh duct tape or painted line. The goal is to not worry about making a wind call and simply hit the water line and confirm elevation hit repeatability at current DA. Shoot from a solid position with good rests (think folding table and chair and solid heavy front v bag and good rear bag) and then looking for consistent impacts at long ranges. Once my calculators are trued at yardages from a good/solid rest then I’m comfortable attempting various field position long range shots and cold bore/follow up shot training is ready to go. Simply adjust DA to current and shoot on!

You are saying you had two hits with a 5 MPH wind but then a 6 MPH wind got you into trouble? I don’t think this is the case at all. You may have over or under held for the wind, but the wind at target and between shot and target could easily be a 2 MPH discrepancy (likely more) from shot position wind. Did you then try to hold for less wind and got a hit?

750 is a long shot! A first round hit, on a gun that hasn’t been truly confirmed at that yardage previously, with a true 3-7 MPH wind call will be a tough hit rate.

If you’re missing an 8x12 target at 750 the number one factor is the shooter. Followed by loss of zero somewhere in the system from previous day, and then we start talking about improper wind call/reading.

 

[gentleman4561]

I shoot a ton of long range. Run matches, shoot comps etc.

The biggest piece of advice I offer to hunters is to get off the bench.

The best thing you can do it spend a ton of time working to get into a stable position quickly. That could be off your pack, shooting sticks, tripod etc.

 

[huntnful]

I think you are just proving to yourself that 750 yards is indeed a long shot, and making it in field conditions is definitely no guarantee. To train for long range, you need to be training for properly corrected follow up shots, cause you're going to need them. That isn't a joke either. If you plan to shoot/hunt long range, you WILL need to make corrections, make follow up shots, and finish off animals after making poor hits. Just the honest truth.

I've done all the above. But I still choose to shoot/hunt long range, so I make sure to spend the time at the range at least learning at what distances to my hit rates drop with a certain MPH wind and variable winds.

Also, if you're not able to spot which side of the 12" plate you miss off of, your rifle is likely recoiling too much and you're not on target soon enough at time of impact. You should easily be able to tell that. Unless your back drop is way far behind the plate or something of course.


But just being out there genuinely practicing and learning your ability and capability is honestly awesome. You're doing far more than a lot of guys that luckily kill shit at long range sometimes and think its a piece of cake haha

 

[NealS02]

I’m not sold that it was entirely wind that led to the misses, but certainly could be a factor. Shooting at that range without a spotter that knows what they are doing to give corrections or identify where the rounds impacted is tough. You have no way to say where the rounds landed and to draw any reliable conclusions that can lead to corrective action. There is a reason our military sniper teams almost always have the more experienced shooter spot. At that range even excellent shooters miss and get wind calls wrong. If you don’t have anyone that fits the bill, I would use larger steel like you said and see what trends look like on your daily shot routine. It sounds like you are a great shot and I applaud the commitment. No offense intended, but I would question the wisdom of actually taking a 750 yard shot on a deer with pretty much every caliber unless you were a true master on wind calls and consistently dialed in at the range.

 

[Dave Thomas]

I would use a bigger target like you talked about so you could see exactly where you missed.

 

[huntnful]

I would use a bigger target like you talked about so you could see exactly where you missed.

Yes, sorry I forgot to address this also. Bigger target helps eliminate questions for sure.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

This is a proven Tikka 260 Rem that’s a hammer gun. It shoots better than I do every time.

Like @huntnful said. You WILL miss long range shots and it’s very important to see misses.

This was a cold bore shot at 866 yards, shooting off my pack. I missed. I could clearly see my miss, made a wind hold correction, and got an impact a few seconds later. Finished out the magazine with more confirmed hits as well.

 

[WKR]

That’s good shooting and really cool to see folks practicing!

I think you need to figure out what you’re trying to achieve. Are you trying to confirm long range dope and confirmed field impacts with your hunting rifles? Or are you trying to practice cold bore shots and follow up shots to already known/proven long range rifles? I don’t combine those two things generally.

I do the latter on average 3 days a week with several rifles, year round. Usually shoot more than just one cold bore and a follow up shot through.

10” round gongs for the target usually. This is on previously verified guns with good/known/solid zeroes and previously shot out to around 1,000-1,500 yards with confirmed water line hits.

I always verify data on my guns, on large targets with a water line drawn or painted. Think 4x4 plywood chunk with a fresh duct tape or painted line. The goal is to not worry about making a wind call and simply hit the water line and confirm elevation hit repeatability at current DA. Shoot from a solid position with good rests (think folding table and chair and solid heavy front v bag and good rear bag) and then looking for consistent impacts at long ranges. Once my calculators are trued at yardages from a good/solid rest then I’m comfortable attempting various field position long range shots and cold bore/follow up shot training is ready to go. Simply adjust DA to current and shoot on!

You are saying you had two hits with a 5 MPH wind but then a 6 MPH wind got you into trouble? I don’t think this is the case at all. You may have over or under held for the wind, but the wind at target and between shot and target could easily be a 2 MPH discrepancy (likely more) from shot position wind. Did you then try to hold for less wind and got a hit?

750 is a long shot! A first round hit, on a gun that hasn’t been truly confirmed at that yardage previously, with a true 3-7 MPH wind call will be a tough hit rate.

If you’re missing an 8x12 target at 750 the number one factor is the shooter. Followed by loss of zero somewhere in the system from previous day, and then we start talking about improper wind call/reading.

This rifle and load is verified at distance (500 and 600) with multiple 10 rd groups (0.8-0.7 moa), and there isn't a loss of zero. Its definitely just me.
I verified the load shooting prone.
Everything else I've been doing has been less than optimal stability including the cold bore shots. Its off a rickety table, so I do have decent support but its not prone and I have to deal with some reticle movement.
My thoughts were, trying to simulate reticle movement from exertion.

If I laid down on the ground and had no movement, then a 1-1/4 moa target wouldn't be a problem for a load that shoots .8

 

[WKR]

I think you are just proving to yourself that 750 yards is indeed a long shot, and making it in field conditions is definitely no guarantee. To train for long range, you need to be training for properly corrected follow up shots, cause you're going to need them. That isn't a joke either. If you plan to shoot/hunt long range, you WILL need to make corrections, make follow up shots, and finish off animals after making poor hits. Just the honest truth.

I've done all the above. But I still choose to shoot/hunt long range, so I make sure to spend the time at the range at least learning at what distances to my hit rates drop with a certain MPH wind and variable winds.

Also, if you're not able to spot which side of the 12" plate you miss off of, your rifle is likely recoiling too much and you're not on target soon enough at time of impact. You should easily be able to tell that. Unless your back drop is way far behind the plate or something of course.


But just being out there genuinely practicing and learning your ability and capability is honestly awesome. You're doing far more than a lot of guys that luckily kill shit at long range sometimes and think its a piece of cake haha

Back drop is far enough behind the target that you can't really which side of the target the splash is coming from. Where I'm at, I don't really have any "berms" to put my targets in front of.

The target is a mini ipsc, so 8 inches wide, 12 tall.

I think I might have just found the range where my current hit rate is just unacceptable.

Last weeks cold bore was 650 yards and I didn't have the same issues. Thats why I felt comfortable moving it back.

 

[huntnful]

Back drop is far enough behind the target that you can't really which side of the target the splash is coming from. Where I'm at, I don't really have any "berms" to put my targets in front of.

Bummer. That can definitely make things more difficult for sure.

You can also video with your spotting scope. But that makes for much slower corrections. But at least you'll be able to see the actually miss and know for sure.

 

[Steve300xcw]

when is the hunt?

 

[WKR]

when is the hunt?

Next month

 

[wind gypsy]

I used to primarily shoot pretty big steel for the very reason of more easily seeing errors. I think doing so contributed to selective memory and overconfidence. Pretty easy to then walk the next round in and stack up more centered impacts and remember that outcome more than the first “miss” that still hit steel. The first bad shot was the one that mattered for hunting scenarios. Shooting at smaller targets makes a guy need to focus on better recoil management and shot spotting too.

 

[huntnful]

I used to primarily shoot pretty big steel for the very reason of more easily seeing errors. I think doing so contributed to selective memory and overconfidence. Pretty easy to then walk the next round in and stack up more centered impacts and remember that outcome more than the first “miss” that still hit steel. The first bad shot was the one that mattered for hunting scenarios. Makes a guy need to focus on better recoil management and shot spotting too.

Absolutely this is true. Once I started focusing on my first round and seeing where it hit, I started realizing "man, I can't hit shit" hahaha.

 

[WRO]

I shoot prairie dogs and ground squirrels at longer ranges with my 22lr. It’s way better practice than shooting steel imho.


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[TaperPin]

By far wind will be one of the major limiting factors. I don’t buy into the idea that it’s ok to blow off legs, completely miss, or have gut shot animals and simply walk your shots in as a normal way of doing business. That’s slob hunting when done up close and there’s no free pass simply because the shot is long. If you can’t hit the deer vitals on a cold bore shot you’re trying to shoot too far - you just proved it’s too far. I’m guessing the wind direction is usually the same and from the same angle at your range - those easy conditions won’t be there in the field.

I’m not sure what kind of animal you’ll be hunting or what the conditions will be, but in many forms of hunting speed will be important. Training for 700 yards is great, but if your system is too slow to get a quick shot off at 300 yards, it’s just as much of a missed opportunity. Practice estimating range without a rangefinder is important - electronics are the weakest link, yet some guys are beached whales if the range finder goes down. On a 300 yard and under shot I’d argue ranging is costing opportunities - those should be quick with no scope adjustment, no ranging, no messing around, just bang bang. Most guys can estimate 400 yards with +/- 50 yards with practice.

Under pressure people resort to how they practice, for better or worse. If you always practice a bad habit on the range with the assumption while hunting you’ll do it differently, that will cost you. If your system is overly complicated it will cost you when things are happening fast. Hunting coyotes in the sage is good practice, for a number of reasons, but they are easy to lose track of the more you look down at your scope. Having a perfect firing solution doesn’t help if you lose track of the animal, or it walks behind a tree because it took too long.

This year someone will lose an animal because they dialed a distance, didn’t get to take the shot, worked closer, jumped the animal and became confused because their practice didn’t include dialing the scope back down if a shot isn’t taken. I laugh every time I notice my nephew hasn’t dialed his scope down, and we take a quick shot at a closer rock - I’ve already shot and he’s dicking with the scope.

There is a dick around chart with points awarded for everything humanly possible to screw up. In the first 5 minutes shooting with someone it’s pretty clear how at risk they are to screwing up a difficult shot, by how much they struggle with easy things.

Hope you have a great hunt and knock the snot out of whatever it is.

 

[Koda_]

I wonder though if my target is to small? Its a 8×12 ipsc, which actually is a good size representation of a deers vitals but at 750, if I miss its hard sometimes to see which side of the plate I'm on and what to correct. Should I step up to a bigger plate and paint a kill zone size aiming point ?

I wouldn't. The kill zone of the animal doesn't change neither should your training target and we shouldn't be walking in our hits on live game. I really like your cold bore training method, its realistic but I think you found your limit.

 

[hereinaz]

Kudos for the work and effort. Keep at it. You are doing a lot of good stuff already.

Get a bigger target, paint vital size, and be brutally honest with yourself. You can’t learn without feedback.

A 6 mph wind?

You didn’t say what cartridge, but my 6.5 creed is 14.4 inches of drift with a full value 6 mph wind at 750.

If we assume the wind died to 3 mph, and you held for 14.4”, then you get drift of 7” off your point of aim. Assume your gun is an moa gun, then you are stacking errors that take you out of the vitals st 750.

If your position is not built well enough, you are adding more error.

650 to 750 is a big jump in drop and wind. Wind at 640 is 10 inches.

You have to know the ballistics and develop the skills to shoot long range in the field.

And, it’s why I usually limit my long range hunting shots to early morning and late evening when the wind dies down. In virtually no wind situations I have high confidence.

 

[Steve300xcw]

I shoot prairie dogs and ground squirrels at longer ranges with my 22lr. It’s way better practice than shooting steel imho.


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I'm a big fan of clay birds at distance. They keep ya humble