Horses - A Burden or a Blessing?

[rokclmb]

My brother and I have identified a source and priced the use of two horses for our 10 day 2017 archery/muzzle elk hunt. This will be our 3rd trip to our location and we feel that because of the good volume of elk encounters and our expanded knowledge of the area that there's a great chance that we will finally give a couple of elk a nice dirt nap. We hunt a long distance (4-6 miles) from our truck and appreciate the idea of not packing meat out that far (hence the use of horses) and the added benefit of not "roughing it" to the high degree that we've subjected ourselves too the past couple years. But... we're concerned that the added responsibility of horses would limit us while hunting. Its unlikely that we would need to go more than a mile from our camp once its set up. My brother owns horses and very comfortable with/around them. I've despised them since childhood due to multiple accidents and refuse to ride them(I'm in great physical condition, anyway).

Looking for feedback on who uses horses and what your thoughts are on the hunting/horse dynamics. Worth the cost? Too much headache for the day-to-day?

BTW - drop camp is not an option.

Thank you!

 

[gelton]

I have rented horses once when the snow was too thick for me and my dad to cover any ground. I wish they could just magically appear for the packout. Be prepared to wake up at least an hour early to feed, saddle them and an extra hour each night to do the same.

They are definitely helpful when they are needed but those in between times can equal lots of work. Also, we were very late in reserving/renting the horses and the ones we got were stubborn as hell and one of them liked to buck a bit. Personally I would only use them for a long packout or if snow inhibited travel.

 

[5MilesBack]

I like them on a rifle hunt, but for archery I'd rather not unless there's someone with me that is dedicated to taking care of them. I won't archery hunt off of one, but they're OK for getting you to an area and out of an area, and obviously packing elk out........if you can get the horses to the elk.

 

[Gr8bawana]

Sometimes they are more trouble than they are worth. You have to have enough feed for them, if there isn't enough grazing where you are hunting. Then you have to pack it in with you. You must have access to a lot of water because they drink a lot. They can find unlimited ways to hurt themselves. Seems like when they step on your foot they just stand there like they don't know what they're doing. Make sure you learn how to load up your game, otherwise get ready for a rodeo.
That being said once you use them to pack out your animals even once you'll wonder why you waited so long to use them.

 

[406]

Rent llamas

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[KMT]

I'm not a horse owner but had access for a few years. Hunting with a horse is like taking a two year old toddler with you all week long and then realizing that that the child is strong enough to pack your game out. But only if the terrain allows it and the horse isn't going through the "terrible twos."

 

[elkguide]

The answer to your question is....... YES!!!!

They can be a real blessing and they can be a real curse/burden. If they are broken to pack, then you will truly enjoy them if you get an animal down but if they aren't broken to pack....... hoo boy. I hate a rodeo in the mountains. If you're not near water, you will have to take them to water at least twice a day, EVERY day. They can grub in most areas to barely get by but you will really need to pack in at least some grain. How do you plan on keeping them where you know where they are while you're in the back country? Hobbling will work to a point but they have to be able to move more than in hobbles for at least some time every day.

Just sold my last three horses and when I was working, I worked for an outfit that ran 68 horses so I'm somewhat familiar with them and the last three years while hunting out west, I have opted to not use the horses that were at my disposal.

 

[mtnrunner260]

Simple answer to your question.
Good horses are worth it, other horses are not. Renting horses makes it hard to know which one you got until you're already up the mountain.
Having someone at camp to tend the horses is always nice.
For the price would it be close enough to just hire a packer to come get your elk out instead of renting them?

 

[Back Country Hunter 2]

Two buddies and I rented one for our typical back country archery hunt two years ago. We lost the horse twice (we tied it off both times on a horizontal branch and it some how got loose). Found it the first time (30 minutes) and the second time it was lost for a week. Someone found it and we thankfully didn't have to pay a lot more money. I'm not a horse guy anymore after shattering my wrist in college when a horse sprinted down an irrigation ditch with me on top. The experience in the back country really just solidified that I'm not a horse guy. If I'm solo I will call the outfitter in the area and have him help me pack it out. It can be expensive, but they know what they are doing with pack horses and I do not. Probably best case scenario is if you a buddy within reasonably driving distance who has horses and will help you out.

 

[Beendare]

The answer to your question is....... YES!!!!

They can be a real blessing and they can be a real curse/burden. If they are broken to pack, then you will truly enjoy them if you get an animal down but if they aren't broken to pack....... hoo boy. I hate a rodeo in the mountains. If you're not near water, you will have to take them to water at least twice a day, EVERY day. They can grub in most areas to barely get by but you will really need to pack in at least some grain. How do you plan on keeping them where you know where they are while you're in the back country? Hobbling will work to a point but they have to be able to move more than in hobbles for at least some time every day.

Just sold my last three horses and when I was working, I worked for an outfit that ran 68 horses so I'm somewhat familiar with them and the last three years while hunting out west, I have opted to not use the horses that were at my disposal.

^^ this is probably the closest to my thoughts.

We end up using them most trips as we hunt the OTC units in archery season that have a lot of hunter pressure. Horses give us versatility...but they are a pain.

Typically we put pack saddles on them and walk them in. I like a camp that is easy to break down and move as needed.
Packing out of an area near Aspen


Over the shoulder pic of a packuot in the Wiminuche



And yeah, I know...those loads have shifted and aren't the best packing jobs with a whole elk and camp. grin

 

[LostArra]

I had a friend lose a rented horse on an elk hunt. Luckily another horse-savvy hunter came across it and got it returned so no loss.

I am not a horse person and every horse on earth KNOWS I'm not a horse person so they usually behave accordingly.
I go hunting to enjoy myself and having the responsibility of a horse would eliminate all enjoyment.
I would rather suffer packing out meat (and I have).

 

[jmez]

Definately a day to day headache. Worth their weight in gold when you have a critter down a long way from the trailhead.

I assume you are talking renting? If not then I would not recommend taking non mountain horses into the mountains. If you do that you both need to be very experienced horsemen. If renting you never know what you are getting but it would most likely be better than bringing stuff that hasn't been in the mountains.

Has your brother ever packed with horses? Packing with horses is completely different than owning and riding horses. Like was said above, someone needs to be up early and take them to water every am and then they need to be taken to water again every pm. You can either picket or hobble them during the day. A hobble broke horse can travel a LONG ways during the course of the day with hobbles on. May be a mile or more from where you left them. I prefer to picket. They then have to be picket broke and not get themselves into trouble tied off on a long rope. They get away plan on spending a few hunting days looking for them.

If you take them one of you needs to pack a pistol. You need to be prepared to deal with a worst case scenario with them.

The biggest problem I see in your situation is you have one experience horse person and one that hates them. This means that pretty much all of the horse chores are going to fall on your brother.

 

[mntnguide]

Like mentioned above..unless you have some experience taking care of horses in the mountains. They can be a real pain for someone who isn't sure on what and how to do everything. I ran a string of 35 head on summer pack trips that I was solely responsible for. So taking care of just a few on a hunt is not a pain in the ass for me at all. I'll be packing 30+ miles into a wilderness to hunt migrating bulls this year, and I won't be doing that without stock! I love hunting with a pack on my back just as well though, but I'm a horse packer if I have the option when it comes to elk hunting!

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[cnelk]

"Horses - A Burden or a Blessing?"

Yes and Yes.

Sorry, but there isnt a right or wrong answer.
Ideally it would be best if you could have a non-hunter tag along and be 'horse wrangler'
That would be as close to perfect as you could get.

 

[BigAntlerGetter]

Imo if you have to ask, it's probably not worth it for you. If you really want to know take the horses out for a weekend this summer. Act just as you would be hunting. And see what it's like that will answer your question better than anyone here in the forum. We can all tell you all day long what to expect but there's a lot more that us broke packers don't really look at anymore cause it's a second nature.
If you have to dispatch a horse can you, do you know signs of colic, lameness issues, how to deal with them. If renting horses what's the cost they will charge if you lose or kill a horse? Guys around where I'm at is 5k.
They are a lot of work if they are in camp all day you gotta water when you get back, feed them, water again, wake up early water them, feed them, water again, saddle all that. Picketing vs hobbling them, you can get fined for tying horses to trees and them chewing bark, pawing at the roots can raise a fine, you gotta move your picket line at least 3 times over 10 days cause they will run out of feed.
There's a lot that goes into this, and if you aren't around water you gotta pack that water to them, can't have them tied up to close to water to free drink.


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[Live Montana]

I have to agree with 406, rent the Llamas. Just this past year elk hunting in Wyoming, we ran into two guys walking out leading two horses in the rain and mud. They told us they had packed in 7 miles and when it was time to come out, the horses they rented would not carry anything. They had to lead them all the way out, load them up and take them back to the outfitter to get a couple more, then come back and go into to get the gear. WOW.... I'm sure that is the exception, but they are certainly unpredictable at times.

The problem is usually not just the walk in and out. It comes down to packing gear and meat in and out. If you have trouble just walking in (no weight), you amay not in good enough shape to be hunting back there anyway.

I have been researching Llamas for the past two years and I plan on getting at least a pair of them this year. There are so many good reasons why Llamas are a good choice.

1. They can carry weight on and off the trail.
2. They can go most places that horses can't or they won't.
3. The pack gear that comes with the rentals is pretty minimal and easy to use.
4. They eat much less than horses and you do not have to pack in weed free hay and such. Usually they can just eat the vegetation.
5. They do not drink near as much, actually not much at all. That makes keeping them in camp so much easier.
6. They can be staked out as long as they have forage and left at camp. Lots of times that is not the case with horses.
7. They don't weight as much and their hoofs are much safer. Horses can get downright dangerous when spooked or even by accident. If you have even seen a horse rodeo on the trail, it gets scary.
8. They can carry 60-80 lbs or so, depending on the Llamas weight.
9. They carry dead animals with little to no problems. at all.
10. They are great in bear country. They actually sound an alarm and become protective. This could be a real asset in certain parts of the country.

On that same Wyoming trip, we ran into an outfitter that had lost 22 horses because a bear came near the corral and they busted out and ran off.

So that is my Llama beat down... Hope that helps.

 

[wyosteve]

If you're not experienced, only going in 6 miles and renting them--DON'T! Just one additional point, just because they may pack camp in doesn't mean they will pack meat out.

 

[mtnwrunner]

Man, this is a good topic and as others have said, yes and yes. I have horses and "Ed" , my mule and love them to death. However, I just don't use them much for the way I hunt. I love to backpack and I truly believe that this type of hunting is the way to go.
We have talked about this for the last couple of years but the ideal situation would be to have someone go with you who wasn't a hunter but would just watch the horses and camp while you were out hunting. It would be nice if you didn't have to worry about them.
I have a couple of places where I hunt and I can always go back and get them for a pack out but more often than not, it is just easier to pack them out then.

Randy

 

[wysongdog]

If you aren't a horse person that has packed in before, it's going to be a challenge. I have a great herd of mules and to me and my family they make our hunting trips whenever we hunt. They are part of the family and love going to the mountains as much as we do. Even if we don't see anything we always have a great ride. But they aren't for everyone either.

 

[toddb]

People that work horses are the toughest dudes around. We rented once and had numerous problems. We were on and off the saddle 300 times heading up mountain. Got the bits mixed up between the 3 horses. One saddle rolled over on us and horse bucked all my gear out. Stuff shot out like fireworks including my gun. Every time I got one foot in stirrup the horse would take off walking and I had problems getting other foot in. Real cowboys I believe are tougher than 90 % of most humans. That said I would like to hunt with them again, but will bring horse lover along to do all the horse work.