Hold on to your GMU 23/26A Shorts boys

[bgalloway01]

RAM told us we will be fine. They will just have to work out logistics and take us further in from Kotz. Bryan is responsive and helpful. Our group is not nervous about our plans being disrupted.

Same thing Bryan told our group. Told us to be there as planned, but plan on going out further.

 

[ddavis_1313]

RAM told us we will be fine. They will just have to work out logistics and take us further in from Kotz. Bryan is responsive and helpful. Our group is not nervous about our plans being disrupted.

Was told the same. When are you guys going? My wife and I are flying out of kotz on sep 9.


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[Idabowhntr]

I'll be flying out of Kotz Aug 15th with Bryan. I'll give you guys an update when I return

 

[VenaticOppidan]

Nothing from GE as of yet.


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[11Justin22]

Golden eagle sent us an email today. We had sent in a deposit for 2023 about a month ago. Said he had our checks but was not depositing then until they figured out what was going on....... So basically we are in limbo.

 

[Sourdough]

So basically we are in limbo.

Sounds like a Company with INTEGRITY.

 

[BRTreedogs]

Sounds like a Company with INTEGRETITY.

Well he didn't cash there checks. Cause once he does its not refundable. Not saying he hasn't had enough time to start getting back to people. But to say he doesn't has integrity when he could of cashed the checks and ran mite be a bit of a stretch.
Id rather him take the time to come up with a good plan rather then just say ohh yeah ill dump ya out.
And if they don't want to wait they have the option to find someone else.

 

[Jackal7]

Was told the same. When are you guys going? My wife and I are flying out of kotz on sep 9.


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Three of us are flying out of Kotz with RAM on September 1 -7, 2022.

And FYI - Optics Planet had a bunch of Nosler Trophy Grade ammo this week that two of us shoot. Not sure if it is still in stock but I got four boxes for my Sako which has been hard to find in 30-06 180 grain partitions.

 

[Catag94]

I had a short exchange (emails) with GEO today.

They are waiting for the state and the feds to agree on a map that illustrates all the rivers that are "Navigable". Yes they are familiar with the mapper.dnr site, but apparently the state and the feds do not agree on which rivers are navigable.
Anyway, once he has that information, he will send it to all clients and let them decide " if they want to give it a run or roll it over and hope the state wins in court over the next year."

So, continue to be as patient as you can. These guys are doing the proper due diligence and are trying to make a sound decision for all parties without rushing into a commitment that is not properly vetted.

 

[TodOz]

Can someone help me understand what is meant when people say RAM is just going to fly people in further vs hunting along navigable waterways which seems to be what GEO is looking to do? Are they really saying the same thing or are these completely different approaches?

 

[Catag94]

I think comments like you mentioned from RAM are driven by an approach to get people to unit 26 where the closure does not extend. I think this is a decent approach depending on when you go, and can be used in conjunction with also utilizing the submerged lands approach. I'm sure this is also part of GEO's thinking.

This is one thing for late August hunters, but being someone going in September, I have to consider the logistical issue of weather on the north slope and being able to be retrieved.

 

[Alaska2025]

Can someone help me understand what is meant when people say RAM is just going to fly people in further vs hunting along navigable waterways which seems to be what GEO is looking to do? Are they really saying the same thing or are these completely different approaches?

From what I understand (and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong), the State of Alaska says that all waterways that are navigable within the state, regardless of who owns it (FED land included), are managed by them, and therefore the navigable part of said waterways are not subject to the Federal Closure. Thereby making it legal to harvest a 'bou within the highwater marks of said navigable waterway. This is the area that GEO is going to have people hunt. Keep in mind that the area that is closed is not the entirety of GMU's 23 and 26A.
RAM is going to fly people into the areas of these two GMU's that are not subject to the Federal closure.

I was watching this pretty closely, as this possible closure was why I held off on booking a hunt in the next couple years in this area. Like I said though, if I'm misinterpreting this, I'm sure someone will nail me for it.

 

[Catag94]

I think that's pretty accurate. Basically in Alaska (and only on Alaska due to ANILCA) submerged lands on navigable waterways are not owned by anyone including the feds, the state, or the natives, etc. and thereby, not closed by WDA21-01(b). Navigable is a key word here which is why GEO wants clarity on precisely which river are designated as “Navigable”

GEO will utilized the open lands too but isn’t an outfit that will take people there if there are no caribou around. I don’t think RAM would either, but trust me, some people would do that.


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[ALSavage7]

Alright, I'll play the idiot. I lived in Alaska for 17yrs but never had to contend with this mess. I'm hunting with TodOz and another guy. So navigable (submerged, unmerged, remerged, demerged, etc) waterways...does this mean there is X amount of distance on either side of the river we can hunt? Or do I need to bring my SCUBA gear and shoot straight up as the caribou pass over the top of me? Yes, being sarcastic on that part. (bows humbly)

 

[BRTreedogs]

Alright, I'll play the idiot. I lived in Alaska for 17yrs but never had to contend with this mess. I'm hunting with TodOz and another guy. So navigable (submerged, unmerged, remerged, demerged, etc) waterways...does this mean there is X amount of distance on either side of the river we can hunt? Or do I need to bring my SCUBA gear and shoot straight up as the caribou pass over the top of me? Yes, being sarcastic on that part. (bows humbly)

I think navigable means it has to maintain a certain cfm of flow 365.

 

[Catag94]

I laughed.

Here is a the Q and A from the OSM/FSB that talks a little about this:

"5. Can a non-Federally qualified user take moose and caribou on gravel bars along navigable waters below the “ordinary high water mark” when the adjacent uplands are Federal public lands? Yes. Please note, however, the take of swimming moose is prohibited under Federal and State law in all portions of Units 23 and 26A. See 50 CFR 100.26(b)(4) and 5 AAC 92.085(7).

6. How is “ordinary high water mark” defined? The ordinary high water mark means “that line on the shore established by the fluctuations of water and indicated by physical characteristics such as a clear, natural line impressed on the bank, shelving, changes in the character of soil, destruction of terrestrial vegetation, the presence of litter and debris, or other appropriate means that consider the characteristics of the surrounding areas” (33 CFR 328.3)."

I asked ADF&G biologist how practical hunting this land is and got the following answer:
"It can be very practical. Remember this is how 90% of native take caribou. But its a matter of being in the right place at the right time."

I think it is important to also remember that the federal land is NOT closed for any use other than the taking of caribou by FNQ users. I can still camp, hunt other species, fish, hike, etc.

 

[arctichunting]

Alright, I'll play the idiot. I lived in Alaska for 17yrs but never had to contend with this mess. I'm hunting with TodOz and another guy. So navigable (submerged, unmerged, remerged, demerged, etc) waterways...does this mean there is X amount of distance on either side of the river we can hunt? Or do I need to bring my SCUBA gear and shoot straight up as the caribou pass over the top of me? Yes, being sarcastic on that part. (bows humbly)

This is a quote from Rinella’s book American Buffalo from when he was hunting Copper River in Alaska that was surrounded by native lands.

“As it turns out, their solution involves a law that makes it legal to travel through private property as long as one stays below the average high-water mark of a navigable river. On the Copper, the high-water mark is usually above the actual level of the river and includes many small islands and riverside willow thickets. ”

Excerpt From
American Buffalo
Steven Rinella
This material may be protected by copyright.

Granted this is an old book and laws may have change, but yes it would limit you to a certain distance around the river.


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[ALSavage7]

Gotcha. Appreciate the weigh ins. So ambush hunting. I'll bring my ghillie suit and my SCUBA gear. I think I also need to remember/remind that it's "hunting" and not "shooting". Yes, we all hope to get critters. I hunted off the Stoyahuk River near Illiamna one year and we waited three days for the bou to cross. We could see them on a cliff on the other side of the river just hanging out and taunting us. Seriously, sticking their tongues out and shaking their butts at us. True story. It was amazing.

GEO and RAM have good reputations so we'll let them figure out the best spots with the ADF&G bio peeps. Their goal is obviously our goal.

 

[Forrest1]

Currently booked with Golden eagle, for this September. What would you guys do, Hunt the high water marks or wait for next year or possibly even later. I'm just hesitant to pay the $ and not get the full experience since I'm so limited in where I can even shoot a bull ?

 

[WI Shedhead]

We’re booked with RAM this year starting September 18. I have no reservations about the situation, and can’t wait to go. I trust Bryan and his crew will provide an epic adventure for our 4 man crew